A Hindu prayer in the Senate=the beginning of the end?

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LightningTopaz

LightningTopaz

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Now, normally, I wouldn't be talking about politics or religion here, but after hearing of this, I couldn't help but enter The Rant Zone.

Why am I hopping mad? Read below:



Rajan Zed will deliver the prayer and reportedly has said he will include references from at least three Hindu scriptures, marking the first time such a prayer and texts have been used at the Senate since its formation in 1789. Despite that, Zed has stated the prayer will be "universal in approach." (See earlier story)
Buddy Smith is a spokesman for American Family Association, which opposes the non-Christian prayer and urges citizens to call their Washington legislators to take action.
"It is a watershed day in that it brings to mind some of these precedent-setting events like the day that we took prayer and Bible-reading out of school in our country [and] the day that we legalized abortion," Smith offers. "I fear that while God has been so merciful with our country in the past, events such as are about to happen, like this in the U.S. Senate, is angering a just God. I fear that we bring judgment upon our country with such acts."
Smith says he hopes that for conscience sake -- and avoiding what he terms "endorsing a pagan ritual" -- senators will choose to wait for the Hindu chaplain to finish his prayer before coming to the Senate for the day's business. He also recommends Christians pray for the chaplain's salvation, intercede for the nation and ask forgiveness for tomorrow's session, and hold legislators accountable by contacting them in Washington to express disapproval.
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My response:

Inside, I want to find the one who had this "great" idea and shout to him/her "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING"?

While the spawn for this "great" (read: stupid) idea may have been in the guise of diversity I, like my family members find it very disrespectful to the US' heritage, its people, and most importantly, God.

So if after reading the info and you feel like contacting your elected officials (if you live in the US), we need to let our "SHAME ON YOU!" be heard.

::rests on her soapbox::
 
Oh no, their myths are different than our myths!!!

There should be no religious proclamation in the government. I'm sure tax dollars helped ship this guy to D.C. or whatever, what a waste.
 
I don't understand the problem. To sort of rephrase what Mozz said, it's just another religion. It's not like the speech is going to be composed of anti-Christian epithets. This country wasn't founded by Christians, it was founded by people. SOME of whom just happened to be Christian. Some were atheists. Some were Jewish. Some were agnostic (including Jefferson, who had religious texts from almost every religion).

LightningTopaz said:
While the spawn for this "great" (read: stupid) idea may have been in the guise of diversity I, like my family members find it very disrespectful to the US' heritage, its people, and most importantly, God.
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How is it disrespectful to a nation that has prided itself on diversity? How is it disrespectful to the millions of Hindus that live within this nation? And how in the HELL is it any worse than these people who go to the Capitol and use God to justify their illogical reasonings and say that anyone who doesn't agree with them must not be Christian?

And where is this article from? Even FoxNews isn't talking about it.
 
I kind have a habit of not listening to any group with "Family" in it's name.

"I fear that while God has been so merciful with our country in the past, events such as are about to happen, like this in the U.S. Senate, is angering a just God. I fear that we bring judgment upon our country with such acts."
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DA DA DUM!

Lol...these crack me up.
 
It's called "seperation of church and state". The senate shouldn't be praying in ANY religion.
 
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Don't get me wrong, I am all for understanding and respecting different religions and cultures, but it is both odd and a little disconcerting for some people (example: me) for a nation founded on Christian principles to be using a Hindu prayer.

As for where I got the article, I believe it is from the American Family Association.
 
LightningTopaz said:
Don't get me wrong, I am all for understanding and respecting different religions and cultures, but it is both odd and a little disconcerting for some people (example: me) for a nation founded on Christian principles to be using a Hindu prayer.
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We were not "founded on Christian principles." That's the bull that's fed to people from, GASP, Christian institutions (like the American Family Association). We were founded on principles espoused by John Locke and a government patterned after the Iroquois Confederacy. The Constitution was written by Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson was an agnostic who believed whatever book he had last read. Many of America's "founding fathers" were, at best, SORT OF Christian. Thomas Paine, whose pamphlet, "Common Sense", is credited with getting the common folk (aka the people who fought the Revolutionary War) behind the idea of independence. And, while he DID serve as a Protestant pastor, he firmly believed that religion should be COMPLETELY separate from politics. As did the Pilgrims, surprisingly. Heck, the first amendment itself is meant to PREVENT an official national religion. The first amendment is set up so that NO religion can receive special treatment or special punishment. By not allowing a Hindu prayer, you're going AGAINST the first amendment. But, hey, most people only like to remember the first amendment when THEY want to use it. Otherwise, they're more than willing to conveniently forget about it.

There's nothing wrong with finding it odd, but that's what happens when you're exposed to something you're unfamiliar with. How you respond to it is what determines the type of person you are. You can either be open and accepting, or close-minded and unaccepting. There are certainly times to be close-minded, but...is a Hindu prayer really one of those times? Especially one that you, yourself, won't be hearing? That's hardly an affront to anyone.
 
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Okay...the main reason I put this foward for debate was to see if you think this whole situation is as dire as some people are making it out to be.

My stance: Only time will tell if it is the eleventh hour or not, but I found it a little disconcerting after reading the article.

That said, the backlash from some people (eg. the AFA) might be due to a fear of what they don't understand.
 
Wait...11th Hour...

You honestly think this will lead to some horrific armageddon?
 
LoL.

Let's all offend a non-existant being by praying to other non-existant beings.

(And America was NOT founded on Christian principles. Not yesterday, not today, not ever.)
 
I would like to take this as an opportunity to say that debates based upon religious principles are not good debates at all, as neither side of the debate tends to use proven facts in their arguments. Just so you know, religious zeal isn't a basis for an argument. :/ It proves nothing. All it does is state your religious beliefs. That's all.

That being said, I agree that having any kind of prayer spoken openly and publicly at the senate will give the wrong impression - that the senate is associated with, favors, or dislikes any given religion or group of religions. Equality in religious freedoms is one of our country's greatest assets. In a place like the senate, which is supposed to represent a forum to speak for all, introducing one form of religious ceremony without giving equal time to the others is showing favoritism to that religion, so it should either be done for all, or not at all.

Let's keep the senate related to policies and national defense, and leave the "saving of our souls" to the ones who are trained to do that. ;)
 
There are semi-regular (at least) prayers in the senate, aren't there?

There probably shouldn't be, but if there are, then all recognized mainstream religions should get their crack at it.
 
LightningTopaz said:
My stance: Only time will tell if it is the eleventh hour or not, but I found it a little disconcerting after reading the article.
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And that is what groups like the American Family Association are TRYING to do. They're trying to scare you into being Christian. They're doing WHATEVER they can to make you believe that if you even REMOTELY stray from the "true path", you'll be doomed to Hell. But there are SO MANY reasonable Christian groups who openly embrace other religions. They believe in the Christian doctrine as much as anyone, BUT they're willing to say that they DON'T have all the answers. And as long as a group isn't hurting anyone...they let them be, merely correcting the occasional misleading "fact" that all groups utilize.

Evil Figment said:
There are semi-regular (at least) prayers in the senate, aren't there?

There probably shouldn't be, but if there are, then all recognized mainstream religions should get their crack at it.
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Exactly. So they HAVE to let this Hindu...person (I hate that I don't know the right term, if there IS a term and it's not just some random person of the Hindu faith) do his/her prayer. Just like they have to offer alternatives to the Bible when swearing people in in courts (though...there's a horrible flaw in that plan that I've always wondered about). The whole point of the first amendment is that the State cannot support any ONE religion. Either ALL are included, or none. Though they certainly don't have to advertise that fact. Usually things like this are only brought about when someone says "hey...can I do that?" At which point it either becomes a national story (like the guy wanting a menorah in a Washington state airport, or whatever it was last year) or they let them do it.
 
There shouldn't even be prayer in the Senate.

While the spawn for this "great" (read: stupid) idea may have been in the guise of diversity I, like my family members find it very disrespectful to the US' heritage, its people, and most importantly, God.
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Shut up, you fucking dumbass.
 
The AFA in general sucks. There is nothing "American" about them. Or Christian, for that matter. Jesus wouldn't go around approving laws that prevent others from having equal rights, or keeping two people apart, or trying to get political power, for that matter (which is what the AFA is REALLY about. Manipulating others.) Christianity's been warped by a bunch of morons who hide their lust for power behind Jesus, and somewhere along the lines forgot the compassionate Jesus who gave to the marginalized and welcomed sinners. The "Christians" of today are NOTHING like the earliest, first ones.


I'm Christian (well, Catholic, supposedly..), and I personally think God is way too big to just fit in one religion. Claiming Christianity has all the answers is arrogant and ASSUMES we know God perfectly, which is impossible, since he/she's constantly revealing himself/herself to us.
 
Celebrating religion x in no way diminishes religion y. It doesn't weaken Christianity or any of its splitaparts to have a Hindu prayer.

And I think it shows the American ego to think that it would somehow incur God's wrath against the whole world to have a scant few Americans say a prayer for another religion. If that was going to happen, don't you think it would have happened already? You know, with all the American Hindus and all?
 
Neku said:
The AFA in general sucks. There is nothing "American" about them. Or Christian, for that matter. Jesus wouldn't go around approving laws that prevent others from having equal rights, or keeping two people apart, or trying to get political power, for that matter (which is what the AFA is REALLY about. Manipulating others.) Christianity's been warped by a bunch of morons who hide their lust for power behind Jesus, and somewhere along the lines forgot the compassionate Jesus who gave to the marginalized and welcomed sinners. The "Christians" of today are NOTHING like the earliest, first ones.


I'm Christian (well, Catholic, supposedly..), and I personally think God is way too big to just fit in one religion. Claiming Christianity has all the answers is arrogant and ASSUMES we know God perfectly, which is impossible, since he/she's constantly revealing himself/herself to us.
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Thank you so much, Neku-san, for giving me a little insight on helping me make sense of this mess.

My initial response was to go along with what they were saying, as you saw when I posted it this morning. But now that I've read the other side(s), I'm beginning to feel a lot more skeptical about this...

I do not deny that it happened, but I am skeptical about the backlash it has created. It is warranted?
 
there nothing wrong, or shouldn't be anything wrong with it.
someone mentioned about only wanting to use the first amendment only when they want to and it's so true.

The people who are strictly Christian or whatever need to get a clue. Basically those that say that anything non-Christian is bad.
With that said we shouldn't call them things like "fucking dumb asses" just because we think their opinions are not valid. If you do, you're doing the same thing they're doing to a simple little Hindu prayer.
It then turns to one big circle
Which is why world peace is just and probably will always be just a dream.

yes, I just went there
 
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