Obsolete A Song of Ice and Fire Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
AceTrainer14

AceTrainer14

The acest of trainers
Retired Staff
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
7,433
Reaction score
475
The Written Word is meant to be the home of book based discussions, it just so happens that no one really got into it. However, as we have recently been discussing the books, why don't we make this our first official specially designated discussion thread :)

So as to not limit anyone, you can discuss any books in the series, so if you have not read up to Dance With Dragons than proceed with caution.
 
Amazing series. The main thing that draws me is the amount of realism it shows despite its genre. The magic is subtle and clever. Battle scenes are nuts!
 
I'm rapidly beginning to realise that this is a controversial opinion, but I like the way that the dragons are handled. I think everyone was expecting dragon-riding battles in Essos - instead we find that dragons nearly always do as they please, mummy or no mummy. But I like this! After all we've been told about how powerful and dangerous dragons are, it makes sense that they should go around eating small girls and trying to burn whoever they like.

The amusing thing is that in-universe and out, people overestimate the value of dragons. Aegon the Conqueror conquered Westeros because he knew how to control his dragon (well ... sort of). Even then, Westeros was merely cowed, not completely conquered. His son (Jahaerys the Concilliator?) had to finish the work of binding the realm together. Dorne resisted the dragons entirely.

Personally, I would have been bored if the opposite had happened, with Daenerys easily burning the evil slavers to ash with the dragon named for her dead husband


Oh, and as for realism ... it's generally very very good, but I do have to stick my fingers in my ears and go "lalala" at the battle of the Wall. Shoot an arrow from 500-700ft up and you'll be lucky if if it even lands point down, let alone actually kill someone
 
I agree, I think it is a wise move on Martin's part, and I actually do enjoy the Essos storyline - it would just be ten times better if it sped up a bit. If Daenrys does not invade Westeros, whether she wins or not, I am going to be pretty pissed, but I expect she will be now that everyone is coming towards her.

And sorry to counter you there Pavell, but I do roll my eyes a bit when people complain about realism in purely unrealistic storylines :p Its a series where people give people to assassin shadow babies and there are frozen zombies wandering about; if you can ignore the unrealism of that, you should be able to turn a blind eye to a bit of arrow firing.
 
AceTrainer14 said:
And sorry to counter you there Pavell, but I do roll my eyes a bit when people complain about realism in purely unrealistic storylines :p Its a series where people give people to assassin shadow babies and there are frozen zombies wandering about; if you can ignore the unrealism of that, you should be able to turn a blind eye to a bit of arrow firing.
Click to expand...

To an extent I agree with you - when it comes down to supernatural and downright made-up stuff I'm not going to quibble - as long as they are consistent within the story the author can do as he likes. However, A Song of Ice and Fire gains a lot of mileage out of realism. If a longbow is an ordinary, yew (Or ash, whatever) longbow then it should behave as an ordinary longbow.

That being said, because George Martin gets so much right in the books, I'm prepared to forgive it. I seem to recall that in one of the Game of Thrones commentaries he admits that maybe he made the Wall a bit too big - how can I be harsh after an admission like that :D
 
Legacy said:
Amazing series. The main thing that draws me is the amount of realism it shows despite its genre.
Click to expand...
As someone who has discovered a proclivity for fairly realistic fantasy fiction, I concur. I'd say Martin has been far more of an influence on my own writing than even Tolkien.
 
So, can I revive the discussion with an idea I had?

It's all Bran's fault. All of it. All the thousands of deaths, assassinations and destroyed lives.

Why, you ask? If he had just listened to his mother and not climbed that damn tower, he would have never caught Cersei and Jaime's love affair. They would have never tried to assassinate him. The Starks would have never started bad blood with the Lannisters, and Eddard might never have deeply investigated King Robert's children. King Robert might even not have been assassinated yet, Eddard would have never lost his head and the war never would have started. God damn it, Bran.

Anyone else think that?

Also on that note, I found the idea of the Reeds finding Bran after Winterfell's destruction to be entirely too convenient. Was it ever explained how they happened to find him within probably a 10,000 square mile patch of wilderness?
 
That's funny, I always blamed Cersei and Jaime. Bad place to go knobbing, Lannisters.

I don't know if you read the books, but Bran's storyline has rather fewer contrived coincidences in the books. Last episode was the worst for that, in my opinion, which just goes to show how too much monkeying around results in audiences (Oh, alright, me) going "No. Just no, I ain't buying it"
 
I think if you want to draw back on the blame, you have to look as to why Jamie and Cersei were there in the first place - ie, the death of Jon Arryn and who was responsible for him dying. If he had not died then Bran would have never seen it happen. Also, in order for anyone to have suspected the Lannisters, someone had to try and kill Bran first, and then someone had to tell Catelyn that the knife belonged to a Lannister. Of course, if she had never arrested Tyrion then none of this would have happened, but it all comes back to the first murder and the knife ;)

And in the books I'm pretty sure that Jojen and Meera were with Bran when Winterfell was burnt down, having arrived in ACOK not in ASOS as the show would imply. However, I must say I am interested in what happens with Bran's storyline in the show; his plot in ADOD is just bloody boring and I was wondering how they'd make it interesting. As long as things aren't radically changed I am interested in what happens next
 
Beth Pavell said:
I don't know if you read the books
Click to expand...
I'll go ahead and admit that I haven't. I got about halfway through the first book and I was just, like... overwhelmed with wordiness. Kinda like how I tried reading Lord of the Rings and couldn't get past 20 pages.
 
Y'know this show is very good at dealing with the intrigue and the politics (The woman are by far the most interesting characters in my opinion), but when it comes to the action ... spoilered for this week's episode

Fighting with two knives is NOT pragmatic ... unless your opponent lets you get close and decides not to wear so much as a mail hauberk for a fight he knows is coming. Why didn't you just stab him, Jon Snow? With that nice long valyrian steel blade that you had plenty of space to thrust with, even inside Craster's Keep

Oh well. We got to see Margaery strut her stuff in a bout of politeness judo again :D
 
I think one thing people forget when reading or watching something is that the people on the page/screen are not as smart as us :p I should point out that there is probably a discussion somewhere in the Entertainment section about the show: if not we can still discuss here, but we should try and keep it book related
 
Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

hi so no spoilers but I just finished reading A Storm of Swords on my plane and like
everything
my world is over
this book was the equivalent of physical trauma
everything was going so well
and then suddenly
everything was dead
and I
no
what
what
whaaaaaat
 
Re: Writer's Workshop General Chat Thread

kintsugi said:
hi so no spoilers but I just finished reading A Storm of Swords on my plane and like
everything
my world is over
this book was the equivalent of physical trauma
everything was going so well
and then suddenly
everything was dead
and I
no
what
what
whaaaaaat
Click to expand...

I think you'll like A Feast for Crows.

My new theory is that the High Sparrow is Howland Reed. As for Bran's being found by the Reeds, remember that the crannogmen supposedly share an ancestry with the children of the forest. Remember that Jojen also seemed to know about the Three-Eyed Raven.
 
The transition from the Red Wedding to Ygritte to the Purple Wedding to the Viper and the Mountain, though. That was perhaps the roughest four hundred pages of literature ever.

Apparently this theory is not at all original, but my new theory is that Jon Snow is the son of Lyanna Stark/Rhaegar, raised by Ned as his bastard. .-.
 
Yeah, that is quite a popular theory kintsugi, and one I think makes the most sense. The producers of the show correctly guessed who Jon's mother was when they first met GRRM, so I almost feel safe to presume this is the case. I just really hope that at the end of the books it will actually have a role to play in the story, and not just something that gets revealed and then contributes nothing else - cause that would be awks and boring
 
I think it depends on how you look at the evidence. George Martin loves to mess with reader's expectations, and given that, frankly it could go either way if the truth is ever revealed at all. As far as the actual evidence in the text is concerned, it's possible, though I think it's equally possible that Jon is the bastard child of Eddard Stark and an otherwise ordinary commoner
 
I dont think the producers would be making a big deal about getting it right if it was just a random commoner. I cant see the conversation going like:
GRRM: "Who is Jon Snows mother?"
DB and DW: "Ummmmmmm, some random?"
GRRM: "Correct! Your just the people to adapt my books!"
 
That's my point about looking into the evidence. In the text, there's no more evidence to suggest that Jon is a bastard Targaryen than a commoner's bastard. It's only when you look at the way GRRM writes, and mentions of conversations outside the books, that the evidence becomes harder
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom