A time table to withdrawl from Iraq

[The Big Al]

This has been an issue for more than a year now. When are we going to withdraw from Iraq? I know my aunt was praising Bush for refusing to give a time, I don't think we can wait much longer.

The problem is, Iraq is not stable and it is nowhere near stable. The constitution changed nothing (like all the events Bush claimed would be a fatal blow to the insurgants). People are still fighting and dying and the country is still in shambles.

I think the best thing we can do in this situation is leave. Most the problems are cmoing from the fact we are occupying that nation and there are those who don't want us there. Many attacks are targetted at foreign soldiers and those who work with them. We may help the situation if we reduced our troop levels.

My major problem is Al Qaeda, we need to force them out of Iraq. If we leave, they might leave as well. However, they may also go after the Shiite Government and try to replace it with a Suni one.

However, what we're doing right now isn't getting us anywhere. We don't know the exact numbers of the insurgants and foreign fighters. For everyone we kill, two come in to take their place. In the meanwhile, our men and women are being killed. Public Opinion is shifting away from the President and against the war. Despite the big stink the media makes out of us killing an insurgant leader or capturing another guy, the next day it's like nothing happened.

What should we do about Iraq.

 

[Mozz]

Everyone's sending people to kill Iraqis. Let's kill those people as they keep coming in.

Giving a timetable is like saying "I'll guard this fridge from you kids until 10pm.. WINK" and then winking to your kids, because they know they can get all the cake once you're gone.

 

[Zeta]

Giving a timetable is like saying "I'll guard this fridge from you kids until 10pm.. WINK" and then winking to your kids, because they know they can get all the cake once you're gone.

Except these people aren't our fucking children. And we shouldn't have anything to do with the damn fridge in the first place. In fact, we basically broke into this house and are meddling with the things and family of total strangers.

 

[Mozz]

I don't care about the Iraqi people. I care that the "insurgents" (read: other Arabs who are coming in to kill Americans and Iraqis) are people who would love for me to be dead.

So a better metaphor would be this:

We stick a rat in a field because we want to kill snakes. As snakes come to try to eat the rat, we kill the snakes. We don't care about the rat, per se, but having the rat remain alive helps us kill more snakes.

And do you have a link supporting the notion that this is an "illegal" war?

 

[Girafarig_Magcargo]

The timetable wouldn't be rigid, and it would basically tell the Iraqis they better get their shit together.

In fact, Iraq is telling us to start leaving now, but I don't know if that's a good idea.

 

[The Big Al]

We just up and leave overnight, however, we could reduce our troop levels. We've weakened other critical positions to fight this war in Iraq including Afganistan (where Bin Laden, the man we were after in the first place, is) and South Korea (next to North Korea who HAS weapons of mass destruction).

The problem with the snake metaphor, the snakes are striking our ankles while we're killing them. Also, more snakes are appearing than we can kill.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Afganistan (where Bin Laden, the man we were after in the first place, is)

Actually, intelligence has had him in Pakistan since about a month after the war in Afghanistan began. There's also a rumor that he's in a heavily-Muslim area of China (Pakistan's neighbor to the North...or the Northeast...whatever).

As for leaving Iraq...we should. Make a deadline. Say that the Iraqi troops WILL be trained by then (how long is basic training for our army? If we can train our own troops that long and send them off to this place, why can't we do it with the Iraqis?). Then make a slow pullout on that deadline, but be poised to strike if there's some sudden movement. Let's pullout to Iran. Or North Korea. Or Africa (pick a country, I'm sure it's worse than Iraq was pre-invasion). Or let's bolster our army in the Philippines, you know...the one ACTUALLY FIGHTING TERRORISM.

 

[Pro-Life-7]

Actually, intelligence has had him in Pakistan since about a month after the war in Afghanistan began. There's also a rumor that he's in a heavily-Muslim area of China (Pakistan's neighbor to the North...or the Northeast...whatever).

Just remember, bad or wrong intelligence got us where we are now!


As for leaving Iraq...we should. Make a deadline. Say that the Iraqi troops WILL be trained by then (how long is basic training for our army? If we can train our own troops that long and send them off to this place, why can't we do it with the Iraqis?). Then make a slow pullout on that deadline, but be poised to strike if there's some sudden movement. Let's pullout to Iran. Or North Korea. Or Africa (pick a country, I'm sure it's worse than Iraq was pre-invasion). Or let's bolster our army in the Philippines, you know...the one ACTUALLY FIGHTING TERRORISM.

As for as a pullout.....in my view ....I would give them 10- months to be trained. After that, bring half of our troops home. Last time I counted we had 160,000 men and women there. Basic training is 8 weeks. Ploblem is there are not enough Iraqi men to be trained to over throw the bad guys. They should have started training then 2 years ago.

We just don't have enough support. When ever the war was a good thing or bad, we are stuck in this war. If we pull out 100% the Iraqi Army the good ones cant handle it. Then the warlords will take over. And then it will be worse then before.

If we want to win this, we need to get more support. Get more nations into it. Get each Nation to take control of a part of Iraq until Iraq is under control.

Ploblem is Iraq is split between 3 tribes. They are all fighting for the land and oil. They can't even agree to form one land for all 3.

Support is what we need. If we don't get support we will be there for years to come. Just the Iraq people don't want outsiders there.

To be fair though the war has come alone pretty fast seeing they lived under Saddam for 30 something years. If the thress tribes could just get their shit together and agree they could have their nation the way they want it. If they did that, and agreeded, we could pull out. They could use their oil and all to build up their nations, build a Government etc.

But as we see other nations being bombed everday, maybe they will help more. Maybe not. Time will tell.

Another ploblem is we don't have enough troops to close all the borders down. The bad guys come in and out of Iraq causing more trouble.

Just face it, one nations or 2 is not enough (USA-Brits.etc..) to handle this. The way its going anyway.

We need either more support or to pull out. If we pull out it will only be Iraqs fault. We are doing all we can for people we barly know.

There is a lot more i would wanna say but i'm to dang tired.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Then the warlords will take over. And then it will be worse then before.

Like Afghanistan?

If we want to win this, we need to get more support. Get more nations into it. Get each Nation to take control of a part of Iraq until Iraq is under control.

Like Germany?

Ploblem is Iraq is split between 3 tribes. They are all fighting for the land and oil. They can't even agree to form one land for all 3.

And the ones in charge won't allow a split because they'll lose power. And it's not just Iraq, it's all the surrounding countries. The Kurds have a section of the Middle East that includes part of Iraq, part of Turkey, and...another country I can't recall. A line could easily be drawn, and we could have a Kurdistan. But Turkey and Iraq won't go for it, despite how happy it would make a LOT of people. But it's world politics. It's not supposed to make the average people happy. It's supposed to make the people with power happy.