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Ancient history

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Fig

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A number of pokémon episodes (Maiden's Peak, the OI ghost ship episode) and movies deal with the past history of the pokémon world in one way or another.

What past events do you remember being referenced in the anime? How far back in the past do you think they happened?

I suggest that, for the "how far back" part, we use the anime's first episode as a reference point, as is common in other fandoms (IE, the SW chronologies all use the Battle of Yavin as a reference point, refering to BBY and ABY years (before/after battle of Yavin))

We could use BA and AA (before/after Ash) years), with AA 1 starting on the day Ash got Pikachu.

-"The War". A military conflict of unspecified scope, though probably a major one (else it would not be refered to as THE war - specifics would be given. Like today, wars like Iraq, Vietnam, etc are given specifics, whereas things like "The war" still tend to refer to either of the World Wars. Lt. Surge having fought in that war, it probably occured no more than, say, 15 years BA (assuming he was about 20 at the time of the war, that would make him 35 by the time he meet Ash).

It probably wasn't more recent than this - it's extremely doubtful that Ash, Gary, Misty, etc grew up during a major conflict.
 
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Damian Silverblade said:
It probably wasn't more recent than this - it's extremely doubtful that Ash, Gary, Misty, etc grew up during a major conflict.
Click to expand...

You also have to remember that Surge is a foreigner. The war he was in may not have affected Kanto/other game or show regions at all.
 
That's a possibility. Hard to reconcile with it being called "the war", though. Kanto could have been neutral during the conflict (I suppose), but Kanto not being affected whatsoever sounds rather odd.
 
Interesting that the Gym is next to the biggest port in Kanto.

The furthest back I can recall is the big battle at the beginning of movie 8. That happened hundreds of years ago. There is also Eusine's line that "man has always wished to capture (...) Raikou" complemented by this image:
m8id20.jpg
 
Damian Silverblade said:
What past events do you remember being referenced in the anime? How far back in the past do you think they happened?
Click to expand...

The Unown tiles were discovered by Professor Hale at the beginning of the 3rd movie. By archaeological standards, they could have been there for anywhere from 500-1000 years, or even longer.
 
There was also the battle between a giant Gengar and a giant Alakazam that caused the destruction of Pokemopolis. I would assume that happened 1000 BA.

Then, there is the burning of the Tin Tower from enemies who wanted Ho-oh's power (or osmething like that) which caused Ho-oh to leave the tower. Raikou, Entei, and Suicune were borned in this event when Ho-oh gave new life to the Pokemon trapped inside. I would say this occured 400 BA.

P.S.: Sorry if I'm not 100% accurate because those episodes were a while ago. So I may not remember them as well.
 
Looking around, we do have some actual dating to work off :

300 BA : The ship of the Orange League Champion (probably a galleon) is lost at sea. (Shipful of Shivers - the trophy is said by Oak to be 300 years old).

Over 2000 BA : A war is fought. The soldiers involved use spears, and seem well-armored (so at least bronze, if not iron age). Their ships use no oars, and have square rigging (and one mast). (The Ghost of Maiden's Peak).
 
An interesting one is the Ancient Pokemon, or the Fossil Pokemon.

We're obviously talking millions of years for those - as I believe was specifically said in at least one of the fossil eps.

Though there are two big points that make this interesting:

I may be completely wrong, but I believe one of these eps featured a drawing of said Pokemon + at least one human.

Which would be interesting as actual dinosaurs never existed with humans and would indicate the first contact between Pokemon & Humans.

Furthermore, what does that mean for the theory that Pokemon are from space? One that the anime has brought to the front more than a few times.
 
1)Possibly pokémon ARE from space, but came long enough ago to fossilize.

2)Not ALL pokémon are from space.

3)As a matter of fact, I seem to recall an ancient drawing of the aforementioned humans FIGHTING with the pokémon. (Relicanth episode, perhaps), with spears and all.
 
My idea's of years:

The destruction of Pokemopolis: I think we are looking here at one of the first primitive pokemon civilisations. Considering the world of Pokemon should alraedy be quite old, I'm thinking it would be dating something like 3000 BA or maybe even earlier.

Ho-oh's flight and the destruction of the Tin Tower: I'm guessing it to be around 700 BA

Between 400 and 300 BA there should have been several galleon sailing the orange Islands

Can't think of any more right now, maybe I'll look some up

I'm not even zure wether I really believe Pokemon like Clefary came from space, but I'm pretty sure if some came from space, not all did
 
Yeah, it's hard to reconcile clefairy being from space since their ships can never leave the planet :D

I also think that Jirachi came from space, since it looks like his cocoon is a meteor. Deoxys came from space.

Also, the pics of Entei (when Oak is looking it up) suggest that Entei has really been around a long time, as he is inserted into what looks like egyptian, mayan, and other historical graphics. So the dogs themselves could be around 4,000 to 10,000 years old -- if such civilizations are placed on the same timeline there as they are here.
 
I tyhink they are. The civilisation in the world of Pokemon seems raelly old to me, and I supose the legendairy Pokemon would heve been worshiped by them at a very early stage
 
If the civilization of the poké-world is that old, then there must have been some cataclysmic events to set it back a bit (in terms of technology) a few times during the course of history. (I'm refering to events akin to the Fall of Rome, here).

The existence of several ancient ruins hints that way.

If there was no such event, then the notion that they were still using galleons 300 years before Ash is hard to reconcile with World History.
 
Here's a rough timeline. We'll add to it as we get more information. I'm hazarding guesses as to many of the dates based on information.

4000 BA or further back : Alph, Pokémopolis founded.
(The ruins of Alph reminds me of Egypt in many ways, hence why the dating I give them corresponds roughly to Ancient Egypt in our own timescale).
(Maiden's Peak had relatively advanced armors and weapons by 2000 BA, whereas Pokémopolis seems to have been almost still a stone age society).

Circa 2500 BA : The burning of Tin Tower.
(As others have noted, Entei is pictured in an "Egyptian background" among many others, so this needs to be relatively ancient. ON the other hand, the existence of a wooden building means NAILS, which means, at least the bronze if not the iron age, so a society more advanced than either Alph or Pokémopolis.)

2100 BA : The maiden of Maiden's Peak die.
(Stated "more than 2000 years ago" in the episode, summed up to 2100 here.)

300 BA : The champion of the Orange League dies at sea.
(Stated "300 years old trophy" in the episode.)

Over 100 BA : The Black Arachnid terrorizes Cattalia City, in Johto, with a series of theft.

40 BA (or so) : Prof Oak sets out on his journey. Agatha sets out on her journey at roughly the same time.

10 BA : Ash and Gary are born.

0 BA : Ash and Gary sets out on their journey.
 
I agree that the specific burning of Tin Tower could be that age, but I didn't mean to suggest that it had to happen around 4000 years ago. I'm just saying that knowledge of the species of entei was at least that.

Also, what about the ruins in Hoenn near the beginning of Advanced where there were these spherical treasures that unlocked relicanth, if I remember correctly...?
 
Given that these ruins have what appear to be almost stone age cave paintings, I'd assume they go very far back - probably predating Pokemopolis and Alph.

And yeah, you're right, they might have known about Entei before the Tin Tower event. Got mixed up for a moment.
 
I think the destruction of Pokemonmpolis could already have been one of the catastrophes that should have thrown back the civilisation. It seems like at that point a fairly advanced Pokemon civilisation was wasted away and people had to start of from scrach again

http://www.pokemon-paradijs.com/tekenfilm/072.php
Looking at the items on the second and third picture, the look at leat like bronze to me, so Pokemopolis may already be putted in a Bronze age situation as well, at laest at the time of it's destruction
 
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