Anyone else fed up with the TMs changing all the time?

[GhostFingers]

I'm really reflecting on the series as a whole here. Gen1: there are 50 TMs and 5 HMs. Then Gen 2 comes along and changes loads of the TMs to incorporate new moves. This basically set the trend for each gen (except 4) changing the TMs. The numbering system seems completely arbitrary (whereas in gen 1 you can see definite patterns). Many good moves got replaced - some have since re-emerged as tutor moves, but not all.

Basically, what i want is for my pokemon to have access to learn as many moves as possible, so i can decide which four are most fitting.

Examples: TM48 in gens 3&4 was Skill swap (an unusual and useful-in-the-right-situation move) - gen 5 changed it to Round (another blah normal sound-based move in the same gen that gave us echoed voice).

Steel wing. Gens 2-4 it was TM47. Gen 5 replaced it for Low Sweep, with no tutor options at all. Skarmory was the only poke to learn it through level up. Then in Gen 6 it returns as TM51 replacing Ally switch (which replaced Roost). And although Roost is back it's confusing to say the least.

Don't even get me started on Rock smash. It's a TM, then a HM, then a TM again (albeit a different number), then a HM again because this game's a remake of when it was a HM the first time.

Couldn't GF just simplify things a little, and instead of changing all these moves, maybe add more TMs? It would leave room for the move tutors to have even more moves to teach. It would mean replacing a lot less data (meaning hilarious mistakes like Beheeyem learning steel wing wouldn't occur). Or just remove the REALLY crappy moves (like water gun - yes in gen 1 it was a TM) and leave just the good ones (like TM01: focus punch, hone claws, dynamic punch AND mega punch together in one game).

 

[Stratelier]

While the numbering of TMs does seem a bit arbitrary, at least we have the ability to sort them alphabetically these days when you're looking to teach that one move. Sorting them by number does have the benefit of knowing when you've finally got 'em all.

 

[aliveatnight]

While the numbering of TMs does seem a bit arbitrary, at least we have the ability to sort them alphabetically these days when you're looking to teach that one move. Sorting them by number does have the benefit of knowing when you've finally got 'em all.

Yep.

I'd love if they made more TMs. Having more would make choosing movesets a bit easier, and I think it would all around be better.

 

[Tyrfing]

I personally like the TM's number changing, along with the move; it's pretty interesting to dive into a new gen blind and having to discover the new TMs for yourself.

 

[Osprey]

I don't mind it at all. Some aspects of the game shouldn't remain sedentary forever. I bet we'd get annoyed over the lack of change sooner or later, even if they just added new ones onto the old... and even if we didn't, some would get annoyed over having "too many" TM's.

 

[Bolt Strike]

It's somewhat of a necessity because new moves are constantly introduced, and some of them make good TMs. The only thing about TMs that's really bothered me was the TM choices in 5th gen, they got rid of some of the good ones like Giga Drain in favor of crap ones like Incinerate and Struggle Bug.

 

[Fairy Ice Ricky]

I also wonder if there's some in-game explanation for the changing of TMs. Like, is the TM list essentially getting retconned every time it's changed, or is the TM list region-specific, or something else of that nature.

But yeah, it gets annoying sometimes, but I'm not too concerned about changing TMs. I would much rather have moves changed than, say, have us collect 200 TMs. Keep the "gotta catch 'em all" line to the Pokémon.

 

[BlisseyandtheAquaJets]

I want more variety, as a matter of fact...

Over 200 Tms for Gen VII, imho.

 

[GhostFingers]

As it stands now (gen VI) 165 different moves have been available as a TM, adding together the TMs from every generation. Since some of these have become tutor moves, it probably wouldn't be so bad to have the moves handy as reusable TMs.

Also, the distribution ratio of moves seems really wonky. In the past 2 gens there have been 7 fire-type but only 2 water-type TMs (obviously the HMs balance this out a little) and ony 2 ghost-type moves.

 

[Stratelier]

In the past 2 gens there have been 7 fire-type but only 2 water-type TMs (obviously the HMs balance this out a little)....

Remember Gen I when Surf was an HM, Thunderbolt and Ice Beam were one-time TMs with no (legit) way to get more, and Flamethrower could only be learned by certain Pokemon leveling up? You gotta pity poor Blaine.

 

[MTPetey]

The reasoning behind the crap ones is pretty questionable. I always assumed the choice of TMs since Gen 3 had to do with the metagame. When every single person was using the same move, they dropped it from being a TM. When people constantly used the same pokemon just for a particular move, or what should be a good move was never used, they make it a TM or move tutor move. I'm probably wrong though. I've certainly never looked into the pokemon metagame too much. I just know that with some games, like Yugioh, the makers are constantly trying to manipulate the metagame.

 

[Muur]

It can be annoying, yes. They should've just added to the current list so we'd have like 250 TMS now or something. Would give more variety too.

 

[dig]

I think it'd be best if the next games have 50 classic moves and 40 or so new moves, plus how ever many Hms are needed. I don't think they need to be evenly distributed amongst the types, most pokemon can learn moves from loads of different types.

 

[Pork T]

GF definitely needs to get rid of the crappy TMs. Does quash really need to be a TM? Does it even need to be a move? I see no use for it in the game.

 

[ThePokeman92]

I personally think that with the fact that TMs are multi-use now, there's absolutely no reason for HMs to exist anymore. Why can't we have field moves that can be taught and then immediately removed as soon as we dont' need it anymore? It's not like you can get stuck that way, you can't *release* a Pokemon while on a route, and the TMs can't be tossed, so they essentially work the same with the lone exception being the moves can be forgotten at your convenience. I don't want to have to lug myself all the way through the game until I find the move deleter, then have to go BACK every single time I need to travel on foot through a route again...As for specific TMs I don't mind if they get swapped a bit, it keeps things fresh.

 

[Bolt Strike]

GF definitely needs to get rid of the crappy TMs. Does quash really need to be a TM? Does it even need to be a move? I see no use for it in the game.

See, Quash is more useful in Double or Triple Battles where you can have multiple Pokemon attack per turn, because then you can have one Pokemon use Quash on a Pokemon to keep it from attacking and the other take it out before it can do anything. But yes, it's not really useful outside of that.

These are the ones I think they should get rid of:

Roar
Taunt
Torment
Round and/or Echoed Voice
Incinerate
Flash (in any game where it's not a field move)
Struggle Bug
Sleep Talk
Nature Power

Save the gimmicky stuff for Move Tutors, please.

 

[Pork T]

Woah woah woah taunt is extremely useful in the metagame. It is one of the things that makes Sableye good. Without it, it wouldn't be the same, and probably would get much less usage. Roar is useful for phazing or racking up entry hazard damage, and sleep talk can be useful for pokemon with rest. I do agree that the other moves suck, however.

 

[Alola]

Bring back Iron Tail.

 

[H2O]

I personally think that with the fact that TMs are multi-use now, there's absolutely no reason for HMs to exist anymore.

HMs exist to stop people getting to areas they shouldn't be in too soon.

Ie. If fly was a regular TM you could transfer/ trade a Pokemon with it to a new game and go anywhere you like right from the start. That may not actually be a bad thing but it would require a bigger shift in design than just switching move learning rules.

I do think they could do with getting rid of the strict learning/ forgetting rules for HMs though.

 

[GhostFingers]

These are the ones I think they should get rid of:

Roar
Taunt
Torment
Round and/or Echoed Voice
Incinerate
Flash (in any game where it's not a field move)
Struggle Bug
Sleep Talk
Nature Power

Save the gimmicky stuff for Move Tutors, please.

I love using torment, it really messes up an opponent's strategy more often than taunt. Echoed voice isn't too bad, but round is really awful. Wastes space in movepools where what a trainer needs to win is diversity, not every poke with the same moves. Flash is a field move in EVERY game, even when it was changed to TM70 it still has overworld uses. It's not a HM anymore because those areas aren't strictly speaking necessary. Incinerate and Struggle bug were really crap when they first arrived in gen V, can anyone tell me if the buff was worth it? I don't have any gen VI games.

Sleep talk is fine and Nature power is fine, no longer limited to just three evo families.

I personally think that with the fact that TMs are multi-use now, there's absolutely no reason for HMs to exist anymore.

HMs exist to stop people getting to areas they shouldn't be in too soon.
Ie. If fly was a regular TM you could transfer/ trade a Pokemon with it to a new game and go anywhere you like right from the start. That may not actually be a bad thing but it would require a bigger shift in design than just switching move learning rules.
I do think they could do with getting rid of the strict learning/ forgetting rules for HMs though.

But since you can't use HM moves out of battle without badges again, this issue is resolved.