Anyone else here regretted ending up with Empoleon?

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the_importer

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Since G1, it has work this way with Startup monsters:

Grass > Water > Fire > Grass

A simple formula that worked. Unfortunately, GIV cocked it up by making your Startup Water monster part Steel at it's final evolution making the new formula:

Grass > Water* > Fire** > Grass

*Water/Steel > Fire (if Water hits first and kills)
**Fire > Water/Steel (if Fire hits first and kills)

Kind of pointless if you ask me. Now if I would have known this before discovering this at it's final evolution, I would have kept the "Water Sport" move which Nintendo seems to have conveniently removed form the "Move Relearner's" list.

Good thing I have Ground and Rock types or I would have been boned against Fire types.

EDIT: Or I could simply grab my other DS Lite, slap in Diamond or Pearl, transfer a new Piplup and making it evolve with EXP Sharing :p
 
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Empoleon is just an all around "meh" Pokemon. I don't think steel is a good type for a water starter. I think it should have been ice. It would've been predictable, yes, but it would make more sense than friggin steel O_O
 
Flare64 said:
Empoleon is just an all around "meh" Pokemon. I don't think steel is a good type for a water starter. I think it should have been ice. It would've been predictable, yes, but it would make more sense than friggin steel O_O
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Ice would have given the poor creature the same weakness since Fire > Ice. The best thing would have been a Water/Flying, at lease it could have learned some good flying type moves including FLY.
 
Um, I'd think you would be more concerned about Infernape's Fighting moves rather than its Fire moves. Fighting is 2x to Empoleon while Fire is only 1x. The funny thing is indeed that the situation would be exactly the same if it was Ice - Water/Ice has also a 2x weakness to Fighting and 1x regular defense against Fire.

Btw, I myself started with Turtwig but got the remaining starters via a trade very early in the game - and I find Empoleon quite OK. :p
 
It's not the Fire that gets it. For the combo of Water and Steel, Fire hits it for normal damage. But, Infernape is also part Fighting, which is SE to Water/Steel. However, Torterra's Ground type also defends its Fire weakness. I think it makes for interesting gameplay, myself. It's a free for all, you aren't going to Rock/Paper/Scissors your way out of this one, you need to think. Preferably the part where you throw the scissors at the paper, but while it cuts through, it gets blunted by the rock underneath. (Sorry, I felt poetic)
 
the_importer said:
Since G1, it has work this way with Startup monsters:

Grass > Water > Fire > Grass

A simple formula that worked. Unfortunately, GIV cocked it up by making your Startup Water monster part Steel at it's final evolution making the new formula:

Grass > Water* > Fire** > Grass

*Water/Steel > Fire (if Water hits first and kills)
**Fire > Water/Steel (if Fire hits first and kills)

Kind of pointless if you ask me. Now if I would have known this before discovering this at it's final evolution, I would have kept the "Water Sport" move which Nintendo seems to have conveniently removed form the "Move Relearner's" list.

Good thing I have Ground and Rock types or I would have been boned against Fire types.
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Fire attacks are not super-effective against Empoleon. Because its weakness and resistance against Fire attacks cancel each other out and Fire attacks end up doing neutral damage so using a Fire attack on Empoleon is like using a Fire attack on any other type that takes neutral damage from Fire.

EDIT: Beaten.
 
Thanks for your inputs guys. Before I start raising another Piplup to at lease remove the 1X Fire problem with Water Sport, is there any item that Empoleon could hold that would give it better defense against Fire and/or Fighting types?
 
Being hit for normal damage shouldn't be your concern. As for Fighting types, use Drill Peck on them. It learns that at L:52. If you can't wait that long, then it can also be TMed Aerial Ace.
 
Sceptile726 said:
Being hit for normal damage shouldn't be your concern. As for Fighting types, use Drill Peck on them. It learns that at L:52. If you can't wait that long, then it can also be TMed Aerial Ace.
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Well my Empoleon is Lv50 like all of my monsters (all 25 of them), so another 2 levels shouldn't be too long to gain. That being said, Empoleon is not a Flying type, so how much impact can Drill Peck have on a Fighting type of let's say Lv50?
 
Empoleon is a really good pokemon, but only if you know not to use it as a regular water type. I didn't ever start with Piplup (started with Turtwig, boxed him as a level 22 Grotle) but I was traded an Empoleon and used him on my E4 team, expecting him to sweep Bertha and Flint. This was not true, since because of his low speed and Ground/Fighting/Electric weaknes and neutrality to fire, he could rarely switch in safely. He does do wonders against Lucien and Arron (as long as you remember to switch out for Heracross).

But yeah, I agree that they completely screwed up the starter system in GIV. Let's not forget Torterra is part ground, which allows him to hit both fire and steel super effective. Basically, they can all have access to strong super effective attacks that can hit each other. I guess Infernape just has a tremendous advantage because of his higher speed and impressive attack/special attack.
 
the_importer said:
Well my Empoleon is Lv50 like all of my monsters (all 25 of them), so another 2 levels shouldn't be too long to gain. That being said, Empoleon is not a Flying type, so how much impact can Drill Peck have on a Fighting type of let's say Lv50?
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a Good amount. At least it would be better then not having a move to defend against Fightning at all
 
the_importer said:
Thanks for your inputs guys. Before I start raising another Piplup to at lease remove the 1X Fire problem with Water Sport, is there any item that Empoleon could hold that would give it better defense against Fire and/or Fighting types?
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Dunno. How good is its Att?

If Empoleon's going up against the likes of Infernape, all you're going to want is a buffed Def so you can survive a CC (even Infernape with crap Sp is likely faster than the average Emp). That said, if you survive a CC by some miracle, if Emp's Att is decent, Infernape would, in theory, go down to one Drill Peck (lowered Def, whut).

That said, against any other Fighting type of equal level, all you can hope for is a OHKO, with /any/ Flying move (again, Drill Peck being the best because most Fighting types don't have Accuracy modifiers, so the lower power of AA would slow you down). So really, you'll just have to fold your cards, because chances of surviving a high-level Fighting type is low. No one's going to seriously send an Emp to do a Bird or Psychic's job (or at least wouldn't want to, if they can help it).
 
Well it learned Drill Peck. Guessing it won't be too effective against a Lv50 Fighting type since it left a bit of energy to a Lv42 Machoke, but better than nothing I guess.
 
Just switch out when a fighting pokemon comes out. It's not that hard.
 
I was pleased with Empoleon. i usualy go for the evened out pokemon or the Fastest. Empoleon evened out my Starter team preety well. i was disapointed with the Second type being steel.
 
but you don't have to evolve you can just leave it as prinplup with just the water type
 
flamealex01 said:
but you don't have to evolve you can just leave it as prinplup with just the water type
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But that's just counterproductive, since when evolving, Prinplup gains a lot higher base stats (as usually in evolution). HP, Atk and Def each grow by 20, SpAtk grows by 30, SpDef by 25 and Speed by 10.
 
I just don't like it when it's hit with a fighter attack, cuz it just kills it
 
Empoleon is my best mon. If he had a modest nature and ev training, he would 1ko topic person with surf.
 
If anyting, I regret torterra. Infernape's the only one that's actually useful in competitive battling.

Others have 4x weaknesses and slow speed.
 
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