Ash and Paul rivalry

[Pattyman]

How was Paul actually a rival towards Ash throughout the DP saga? In all of his appearances, he acted as if he was being mean to Ash for no reason instead of acting like a rival, which in turn made Ash act like him a little bit in terms of tone. Also, I felt like all of the battles that Ash and Paul participated in were rigged to make Paul's attitude the correct way of speaking to someone, even though most of those battles should not have determined if Ash was stronger than him or not due to the rigging happening.

Why was it something acceptable that they could do where when other people do it, they get into trouble? Also, what was the whole point of the Ash and Paul rivalry in the first place if Ash got easily defeated by Trip's Snivy after the Sinnoh League?

 

[SatoshiKun]

What are you referring to? I agree that Shinji got a little bit of favoritism from the writers, but it wasn't really bad. I don't really know what you mean by "rigged". Some of their battles (Turtwig vs Honchkrow) were mismatch, but not rigged.

As for Satoshi loosing to Shooti, that's a whole other can of crap.

 

[Pattyman]

What are you referring to? I agree that Shinji got a little bit of favoritism from the writers, but it wasn't really bad. I don't really know what you mean by "rigged". Some of their battles (Turtwig vs Honchkrow) were mismatch, but not rigged.

As for Satoshi loosing to Shooti, that's a whole other can of crap.

What I was referring to was what made Ash become a rival of Paul's in the first place if Ash didn't know about Paul's arrogance nor anything about him? As for the rigged part, when Ash sent out a Pokémon with the type-advantage (Buizel against Magmortar) at one point, Magmortar was not easily defeated unlike Turtwig. Unlike the other rivals Ash had, the one between Ash and Paul became very confusing and made very little sense as to why they were considered rivals in the first place.

 

[hiphipjorge]

Well their rivalry started off as just a coincidence. They were in the same place at the same time and battled. I believe that they tied in their first battle so Ash was able to recognize that Paul was a strong trainer too. As time went on Ash and Paul kept running into each other and Ash began to realize how different they were in regards to training methods. The rivalry really took off from Ash's perspective once he decided to prove to Paul that caring for you pokemon was the right way to train which was symbolized through Chimchar and its development.

 

[Pattyman]

What about the stern tone Paul kept on using towards Ash many times until Paul's defeat at the Sinnoh League? Did it have anything to do with their rivalry or something else?

 

[Trevenant]

How was Paul actually a rival towards Ash throughout the DP saga? In all of his appearances, he acted as if he was being mean to Ash for no reason instead of acting like a rival, which in turn made Ash act like him a little bit in terms of tone. Also, I felt like all of the battles that Ash and Paul participated in were rigged to make Paul's attitude the correct way of speaking to someone, even though most of those battles should not have determined if Ash was stronger than him or not due to the rigging happening.

Why was it something acceptable that they could do where when other people do it, they get into trouble? Also, what was the whole point of the Ash and Paul rivalry in the first place if Ash got easily defeated by Trip's Snivy after the Sinnoh League?

Ash's rivalry with Paul is an interesting one because it isn't a rivalry in the way his rivalry with, say, Gary was. The reason that they can even be considered rivals is because they're two individuals trying to attain the same thing - in this instance, they both want to want to win in the Regional Pokemon League Competition. Beyond that, you're probably right that their relationship isn't actually a rivalry. The whole thing essentially starts off as a disagreement about what the correct method in training Pokemon is. Paul only trains Pokemon that he believes to have potential and releases any of them that don't meet his standards, while Ash believes that any Pokemon can be strong and that Pokemon and Trainer should strive together to become stronger as friends and partners. The thing is, even though their rivalry starts off this way, it doesn't end with any kind of answer. Ash's victory in the league isn't about proving that his way is correct, but about simply being a better trainers. Their whole relationship builds to a point where they both accept that no mater how the other does thing, they're both talented trainers and they learn to accept each other.

The thing is, Paul and Ash's rivalry has no bearing on anything that comes after. Ash proved himself to be strong, but even a strong trainer can lose. There's a reason why all of the Champions are at least in their 20s or 30s. No matter how much experience someone like Ash has, his Pokemon aren't unbeatable and this is especially the case when Pikachu can only use half of its moves effectively.

 

[Pattyman]

How was Paul actually a rival towards Ash throughout the DP saga? In all of his appearances, he acted as if he was being mean to Ash for no reason instead of acting like a rival, which in turn made Ash act like him a little bit in terms of tone. Also, I felt like all of the battles that Ash and Paul participated in were rigged to make Paul's attitude the correct way of speaking to someone, even though most of those battles should not have determined if Ash was stronger than him or not due to the rigging happening.

Why was it something acceptable that they could do where when other people do it, they get into trouble? Also, what was the whole point of the Ash and Paul rivalry in the first place if Ash got easily defeated by Trip's Snivy after the Sinnoh League?

Ash's rivalry with Paul is an interesting one because it isn't a rivalry in the way his rivalry with, say, Gary was. The reason that they can even be considered rivals is because they're two individuals trying to attain the same thing - in this instance, they both want to want to win in the Regional Pokemon League Competition. Beyond that, you're probably right that their relationship isn't actually a rivalry. The whole thing essentially starts off as a disagreement about what the correct method in training Pokemon is. Paul only trains Pokemon that he believes to have potential and releases any of them that don't meet his standards, while Ash believes that any Pokemon can be strong and that Pokemon and Trainer should strive together to become stronger as friends and partners. The thing is, even though their rivalry starts off this way, it doesn't end with any kind of answer. Ash's victory in the league isn't about proving that his way is correct, but about simply being a better trainers. Their whole relationship builds to a point where they both accept that no mater how the other does thing, they're both talented trainers and they learn to accept each other.

The thing is, Paul and Ash's rivalry has no bearing on anything that comes after. Ash proved himself to be strong, but even a strong trainer can lose. There's a reason why all of the Champions are at least in their 20s or 30s. No matter how much experience someone like Ash has, his Pokemon aren't unbeatable and this is especially the case when Pikachu can only use half of its moves effectively.

That explains everything.

 

[PiccoloX]

Paul was certainly the most mature themed rival thus far. The attitude and huge eyebrows made him seem much older than he was. He wanted to win. He thought things through. He was harsh in his words to Chimchar, but didn't seem like it was said to be mean. If anything, he seemed realistic instead of just a random face thrown into the show.

 

[Soniman]

Paul was the first and only one of Ash's rival that directly influenced his growth as a character and a trainer. Before we've had Gary, who other than teasing Ash and saying how cool he was, didn't affect Ash's growth all that much beyond "Gary did this thing, now I GOTTA DO IT!". We've had Morrison, a last minute rival that didnt real add much to Ash's character moreso than it did to Morrison and his reservations about facing Ash in battle due to the strong friendship they formed.

And since then we've had Trip, who completely dropped the ball and was just a miss match of the douchery of Gary and the power seeking nature of Paul, with nothing substantial being formed from it, and even the writers didn't want to bother with him anymore seeing as how they axed him off in a shitty first round League Battle.

Paul actually gave Ash the push he needed to take his Pokemon training methods to the next level, and every time Paul got the upper hand it drove Ash to become better as a result, especially after the devastating Lake Acuity loss, they butt heads in how the raise and train Pokemon, seeing their respective methods as the correct way. This all comes to a head at the Pokemon League where they have a great 6 on 6 battle with the finale ending with Ash claiming victory with the very same Pokemon that Paul abandoned due to seeing him as weak.

So yeah, the Ash vs Paul rivalry was great in my eyes, wont probably get better than that.

 

[Pikacuh]

The only reason why Ash and Paul had an rivarly in the first place was due to how Chimchar was being treated by Paul.



Ash losing to Trip made an whole lot of sense.


Paul was an okay rival who had great interesting pokemon, but he wasn't the greatest rival of the entire series.

 

[Master Cyrus]

Ash wanted to win vs paul.

Thats all it takes for someone to be a rival.

And ash losing to trip made no sense. The entire junior cup was a load of rigged tauros shit.

 

[Pikacuh]

The Junior Cup was an interesting well done Tournament. My point is Ash losing to Trip did make sense since he was Ash's rival.

Ash Vs Paul wasn't anything new or great.

 

[Master Cyrus]

And trip was?!

And the fact that you seriously thought a tournament filled with pointless OHKOs and bland repeated moves over and over is an intresting and well done tournament is just wrong. And no it doesn't make sense to lose just because he's a rival. Bianca was Ash's rival and yet she never beat him once for example.

 

[Pikacuh]

And trip was?!

And the fact that you seriously thought a tournament filled with pointless OHKOs and bland repeated moves over and over is an intresting and well done tournament is just wrong. And no it doesn't make sense to lose just because he's a rival. Bianca was Ash's rival and yet she never beat him once for example.

Well that is your opinion.

But Bianca wasn't Ash's main rival, Trip was Ash's main rival which is the reason why Ash lost to him a few times.

 

[Master Cyrus]

And trip was?!

And the fact that you seriously thought a tournament filled with pointless OHKOs and bland repeated moves over and over is an intresting and well done tournament is just wrong. And no it doesn't make sense to lose just because he's a rival. Bianca was Ash's rival and yet she never beat him once for example.

Well that is your opinion.

But Bianca wasn't Ash's main rival, Trip was Ash's main rival which is the reason why Ash lost to him a few times.

I'm simply having a hard time wrapping my mind around it is all.

Being a main rival shouldnt give you a free ticket to beat Ash. it should be earned through hard work and traning and experience all of which paul had in spades and trip had none. What was even worse was that the powerups trip got out of nowhere vanished just as fast after he was no longer needed for plot and was abandoned. Also mijumaru won vs him which technically invalidates the rivalry

 

[Pikacuh]

And trip was?!

And the fact that you seriously thought a tournament filled with pointless OHKOs and bland repeated moves over and over is an intresting and well done tournament is just wrong. And no it doesn't make sense to lose just because he's a rival. Bianca was Ash's rival and yet she never beat him once for example.

Well that is your opinion.

But Bianca wasn't Ash's main rival, Trip was Ash's main rival which is the reason why Ash lost to him a few times.

I'm simply having a hard time wrapping my mind around it is all.

Being a main rival shouldnt give you a free ticket to beat Ash. it should be earned through hard work and traning and experience all of which paul had in spades and trip had none. What was even worse was that the powerups trip got out of nowhere vanished just as fast after he was no longer needed for plot and was abandoned. Also mijumaru won vs him which technically invalidates the rivalry

I do believe Trip train off screen which is the reason he had those powerups.



Paul also had some training off-screen aswell, since some of his Pokemon were evolved.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Paul had experience to make his skills and the strength of his Pokemon actually believable. Trip lacked experience and they simply made him overpowered whenever it was necessary. When he defeated Ash, it was simply because they wanted to keep Ash in the underdog role of the rivalry. When Trip was defeating everyone in the Junior Cup, it was so that he could face Alder in order for his attitude to suddenly change. Ash was the underdog of the rivalry with Paul too, but the difference is that Ash still looked strong, as opposed to making him look like his training skills were downgraded.

There was also a rivalry with Paul from the start. Even before Chimchar's treatment took a major focus, just their different attitudes and methods for Pokemon training caused Ash and Paul to clash. This rivalry wasn't perfect, but I do think it was the best rivalry Ash has had and there was clearly more effort put into it than there ever was with Ash's rivalry with Trip.

 

[Lis]

I didn't mynd Ash getting another "archi-rival" after things were settled with Gary. It was well detailed in the anime; you could see the ambiguity in their relationship (competitive friends would be a term i would use to define it) But; maybe is just me, i too have the sensation that even this aspect of the anime is lackin fundaments. I don't doubt that Ash would feel worked up by a trainer that would "misstreat" his/her pokemons (however we see it) but Paul's attitude (so strict and cold, and analitic at times) towards Ash did seem out of focus to me too. It was as if the directors were trying to push their rivalry to attract more audience. (However, i must have seen around 20 more or less random episodes of that season, couldn't see it properly. Might be skipping something)

 

[PiccoloX]

Next rival really should be a female Paul. Don't change the attitude or the wardrobe in the slightest, just acknowledge that she's a female on the first episode and never speak of it again. Ash never mentions it later, there is no chance of a romance between the two and Paul-a never shows a moment of feminism, never even blushing once. Heck, get Morgan Freeman to voice her. My mind would be thoroughly blown for Pokemon to step out of its safe-zone like that. lol