Ash vs Paul (In a psychological sense)

[Yoshi-san]

OK in the latest English episode of Pokemon DP, Paul was being a JerkAss to Ash more than usual. He berated Ash and criticized his Pokemon throughout the episode.

Originally I thought Paul was a very flawed character, only thinking about being strong, getting the strongest Pokemon and abandoning the weak. After seeing this episode my view of Paul changed to a one track mind guy who wants to be better than his brother and to prove that his method of raising Pokemon is more effective than Reggie's (and Ash's).

Ash always preaching to Paul about trusting your Pokemon in order to reach it's potential and love can help too. It seems like Ash's method is flawed as well because IMHO love and trust can only go so far.

Here's the question: Do you think Paul's character is beneficial to Ash's development as a trainer? What's you opinion of it. My response is yes. IMHO Paul is one of the best characters in DP and I hope his character can (finally) give Ash a LOT of Character Development.

 

[Legacy]

yea i agree to a point. paul pointed out in aiding the enemy that ash was actually just doing the same thing paul does to train his pokemon...paul just is less nice about it.

so i think ash will realize that a truly great trainer knows when to push his pokemon and perhaps not always coddle them as it could be argued that ash does to his pokemon. but also, not to go overboard like paul does, showing no compassion at all.

i remember the best coach ive ever had in my life did this. he was a nice guy and always treated his players fairly, but also knew that sometimes he needed to yell at us or chew us out when we needed it. it wasnt that he liked being a jerk, but he knew as a coach that his players were kids and sometimes needed discipline. i think this is similar to how great trainers handle their pokemon.

although, this might be thinking too deeply into it because its a kids show, and all little kids understand is that paul is mean to his pokemon and ash is nice...and the writers might just want to teach the lesson that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

 

[Musashi]

paul pointed out in aiding the enemy that ash was actually just doing the same thing paul does to train his pokemon...

Except it wasn't the same at all, and I don't know why nobody called him on that.

Shinji had all his pokemon viciously attack Hikozaru in order to unlock its blaze ability without any care at all as to Hikozaru's well being.

Satoshi just has his pokemon do sparing matches with each other.

Not even close to the same thing.

 

[ii kanji]

Shinji and Satoshi's training styles are TOTALLY different, and I can't really see Satoshi's style changing. He's not gonna be any harsher, because 1. He's just a nice boy and 2. Pokemon's main aim all these years has been to preach about the power of friendship and I'll be darned if they make Satoshi be any less friendly.

I wonder if Shinji will eventually change though...

 

[PockyAddict]

I wonder if Shinji will eventually change though...

He probably will at some point, I think at the end of the sega.

 

[Legacy]

He probably will at some point, I think at the end of the sega.

he definitely will change. it will probably be very humbling when ash and chimchar (or whatever its evolved into by then) stomps paul in front of a huge crowd at the sinnoh league! :banana:

 

[ii kanji]

I'm sure he will, but ATM it seems kinda weird. Because with Shigeru he was arrogant, we always saw that he had good stuff in him. But Shinji's just such a jerk...It'll be bizarre anyway to see him as a good guy at the end of it all.

 

[Yoshi-san]

so I think Ash will realize that a truly great trainer knows when to push his Pokemon and perhaps not always coddle them as it could be argued that ash does to his Pokemon. but also, not to go overboard like Paul does, showing no compassion at all.

This.

Like I said before, Ash can learn from Paul and Paul can learn from Ash.

 

[ii kanji]

I'm sure Satoshi could learn from Shinji, and maybe he ought, but he just wouldn't be him if he were less openly loving of his Pokemon. I guess I just can't see his style changing ^^

 

[Shinx3000]

I wonder if Shinji will eventually change though...

If Ash beats him because of what he has been saying, training up to be strong instead of just being strong straight away, he'll change, if Ash does not beat him, he won't probably change at all, just go with what he has been saying a bit more so maybe

Like I said before, Ash can learn from Paul and Paul can learn from Ash.

The only thing I see Ash learning from Paul is what not exactly to do when it comes to training pokemon. Rarely he learns one or two other things, but Paul can learn from Ash, he just won't because he believes the way he is, is the only way to win, but he does notice when Ash does well using the training that Ash does.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

Except it wasn't the same at all, and I don't know why nobody called him on that.

Shinji had all his pokemon viciously attack Hikozaru in order to unlock its blaze ability without any care at all as to Hikozaru's well being.

Satoshi just has his pokemon do sparing matches with each other.

Not even close to the same thing.

Completely agree; that bugged the crap out of me.
---

And Paul's no more beneficial to Ash than Gary was. He's a barometer to Ash, and a means to which Ash can test his own abilities, methods, and Pokemon against. I would include "beliefs", but I'm sure Ash wouldn't change that regardless of their match outcome.

So I mean, Paul does what a rival should do, which is push the other person to become better.

 

[katfairy]

In a rather long post that got eaten when this site suddenly decided it didn't want to show up on my computer anymore, I compared the training session Ash was having to a game of dodgeball, whereas Paul's training was beat-the-crap-out-of-the-little-guy. Ash and Dawn would pause if it looked like somebody might be hurt, but Paul kept going. That Paul didn't acknowledge this, or notice it, says more about him than about any perceived similarities in training styles.

 

[Sleet]

I think Paul's character is definitely beneficial to Ash as a trainer. He is not only a strong rival, but he's also a good example of what to do, as well as what not to do.

Also, I don't see Paul doing a complete turnaround ever. He'll probably become a jerk who is harsh but fair (rather than just harsh) at the end of his story, before he falls off the planet like other rivals.

 

[Cybersai]

I hope Paul learns to respect Ash and change his training methods, but I don't want to see him become all buddy-buddy with Ash either like the way Gary did.

I also can't see Paul and Ash ever being regular friends or meeting up again, Gary and Ash managed to become friends but I see Paul remaining a loner and walking off never to be seen again at the end.

I have a feeling Paul won't continue in the anime past the Sinnoh arc, his character seems to be heading toward a climax that can't continue like the way Gary did.

 

[ShinyAeon]

In a rather long post that got eaten when this site suddenly decided it didn't want to show up on my computer anymore, I compared the training session Ash was having to a game of dodgeball, whereas Paul's training was beat-the-crap-out-of-the-little-guy. Ash and Dawn would pause if it looked like somebody might be hurt, but Paul kept going. That Paul didn't acknowledge this, or notice it, says more about him than about any perceived similarities in training styles.

What katfairy said. Totally. (It's not the technical strategies Paul uses, it's the callous and cruel way he goes about them that make him just plain wrong.)

 

[Lil Brother]

Except it wasn't the same at all, and I don't know why nobody called him on that.

Shinji had all his pokemon viciously attack Hikozaru in order to unlock its blaze ability without any care at all as to Hikozaru's well being.

Satoshi just has his pokemon do sparing matches with each other.

Not even close to the same thing.

But not from Paul's perspective, which is what makes it so interesting. As far as Paul sees, he and Ash were doing percisely the same thing, the only difference being in Paul's case, Chimchar wasn't strong enough to retaliate. And to be fair, the attacks Ash set his Pokémon against were ridiculously overpowering them; there wasn't a chance of them making it through that without getting hit.

It's also of note that instead of Ash running around trying to befriend Paul and make everything wonderful, Paul's the one who's trying to get involved with Ash. Ash can't stand Paul and has compeltely given up on him after a while. So whether or not Ash is being helped in any way is up in the air, but Paul is definetly benefiting from his stalkerish tendencies.

As for his ultimate fate, I could see it going either way. Paul could retain his cold attitude and anti-social behavior, but choose to treat his Pokémon more fairly. Or, if he cracks up enough, he could actually become a friend to Ash- maybe not BFFs- but a friend. Paul's loneliness is sure to cave on him eventually; if Ash is there to lend a helping hand and the two have a heart-to-heart, something could develop. I know a lot of people shout blasphemy over that idea, but I could see it work if done correctly.

 

[JB88]

By the end of this series, Paul will see the error of his ways, to some extent.

Personally I'd rather not see them as friends. As much as I'd like to compare this to something else that's similar, I can't think of any now. Ash and Paul inspire one another, to keep improving themselves over and over again, and challenge each other when the time is right. And they will continue to learn from each other. That is the true notion that's going on here.

I rather it stay like that then end up like Gary. Because with Gary, what was said before, I haven't seen much of now.

 

[Cybersai]

As for his ultimate fate, I could see it going either way. Paul could retain his cold attitude and anti-social behavior, but choose to treat his Pokémon more fairly. Or, if he cracks up enough, he could actually become a friend to Ash- maybe not BFFs- but a friend. Paul's loneliness is sure to cave on him eventually; if Ash is there to lend a helping hand and the two have a heart-to-heart, something could develop. I know a lot of people shout blasphemy over that idea, but I could see it work if done correctly.

You bring up something amusing, but would Paul likely stick around though?

It seems coordinators tend to stick with their rivals for a long time or life (as seen with May/Drew/Harley, and I bet Dawn/Zoey/Kenny will travel to regions together too in the future), but the only reason Gary stayed in contact is because his grandpa is Prof. Oak.

Paul has no connections with Ash otherwise, very limited interactions with Dawn/Brock, and he doesn't seem like the guy to do a complete 180 like Gary did.

I get the feeling Paul is just going to walk off into the sunset and we'll just never hear from him again, I don't see him sticking around after Ash's victory over him. In terms of the show Paul's character would also get really stale and redundant post-Sinnoh, so it's probably best to finish him off at the end of Chimchar's story too.