Ash's neglected Pokemon, will they ever be used again?

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Cybersai

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Ash has quite a lot of Pokemon at Oaks lab now, and while its obvious that we'll see the more popular ones in battle again, (in addition to Charizard and Squirtle), you can't help but feel sorry for some of the others.

When Hoenn ended so did Ash's fresh start, which allowed him to use some of his older Pokemon during Battle Frontier. We saw Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Charizard, Snorlax, Tauros, Heracross, Torkoal and Donphan all make comebacks, in addition to Sceptile, Swellow and Corphish in battles as well.

One thing that seems odd is the writers completely ignored his Johto era team. Bayleef, Cyndaquil, Totodile and Noctowl weren't used at all the entire season, and all four of them haven't had a single battle since waaaay back in the Johto league tournaments...which was nearly 300 episodes ago. Other neglected ones were Kingler and Muk, both of which haven't been used for the same timeframe.

The question is, will they ever be used again? The Kanto trio tends to always get comebacks, and I'm sure the stronger ones like Sceptile and Snorlax will be used again...but are the others doomed?

I generally feel sorry for Bayleef the most, its one of his only Johto Pokemon that I felt had character and Aipom completely stole Bayleef's crush on Ash thing. With Ash having three other more popular grass types now, it makes me wonder if we'll ever see Bayleef in battle again.
 
Regarding Kingler and Muk, it pains me to say that I doubt we'll ever see them in battle again. Muk's sole purpose anymore is to give Professor Oak a smothering hug, and Kingler's last true battle was back in the Whirl Islands. For some reason, the writers don't want to showcase them anymore, and I wonder if they even wanted to showcase them to begin with. Why do I think that? Look at the circumstances under which they were caught; both were sent immediately to Oak's Lab, and neither battled until the Pokémon League about 60 episodes after their captures. Whereas almost all of Ash's other Pokémon spent at least some time on his team before being shipped off to Pallet Town.

As for the others, Cyndaquil I can see possibly coming back, as it was one of the stronger of Ash's Johto team. Noctowl and Totodile I can see being forgotten, particularly the Flyer. Ash's Flying types up until Swellow never seemed to get any good screen time (although, one could argue that Pidgeotto did before Ash caught the starters in Kanto), and poor Noctowl's only saving grace was that it was a shiny. But that novelty wore of after awhile, rendering it uninteresting, which is a shame because I'm a fan of Noctowl's episodes (I know a lot of people don't like Throwing in the Noctowl, but I did because it gave plenty of under-used Pokémon, including Brock's Crobat and Misty's Staryu, some much-needed screen time). Like you said, Scott, Aipom has basically taken over Bayleef's role, which is why I can't see the Grass-type coming back, at least for now.
 
PAK Man said:
For some reason, the writers don't want to showcase them anymore, and I wonder if they even wanted to showcase them to begin with. Why do I think that? Look at the circumstances under which they were caught; both were sent immediately to Oak's Lab, and neither battled until the Pokémon League about 60 episodes after their captures. Whereas almost all of Ash's other Pokémon spent at least some time on his team before being shipped off to Pallet Town.
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You have to remember this was back in the original Kanto, where the writers had no clue what to do with Ash's captures. That's why Ash used to release Pokemon left and right back in Kanto, whereas others like Kingler and Muk were immediately shipped off to Oak's. The writers had absolutely no clue how to manage Ash's team back then.

Ash's captures since then have become a lot more controlled and better focused, which is why stuff like that doesn't happen anymore. I think Kingler gets shafted because of the more popular Corphish, and they're too similar otherwise. I really wanted to see Muk again though.

But that novelty wore of after awhile, rendering it uninteresting, which is a shame because I'm a fan of Noctowl's episodes (I know a lot of people don't like Throwing in the Noctowl, but I did because it gave plenty of under-used Pokémon, including Brock's Crobat and Misty's Staryu, some much-needed screen time). Like you said, Scott, Aipom has basically taken over Bayleef's role, which is why I can't see the Grass-type coming back, at least for now.
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I think the problem with Noctowl is the writers barely did anything with it. I think the only Gym battle it had a point in was against Morty, other than that it never did anything for the rest of the saga. In the Johto league it lost in like 10 seconds to Harrison's Steelix. Its yet another thing that pissed me off about the Johto saga, Ash's captures were better controlled...but they were still never used to their full potential.

I'd love to see Bayleef again but with the more powerful Bulbasaur and Sceptile at Ash's disposal, not to mention the current D/P status of Turtwig, its hard to find space for it. I actually see Sceptile becoming the new Charizard in terms of Ash constantly calling back for it for his tough battles along with the likes of Snorlax.

I agree that Cyndaquil is the most likely one to make a comeback, what with the lack of fire types in Sinnoh and all...so we'll see.
 
I don't quite remember Bayleef ever being glorified as much as Bulbasaur was. Ash always seems to also call back to Bulbasaur during his toughest battles, such as against the Meganium in the Silver conference or Brandon's Dusclops.

I do hope Bayleef gets in at least one more battle before this series ends, (whenever that is), because his Johto team as a whole seems to have been constantly overshadowed by his Kanto team in the same exact saga, and since AG started they've been all but forgotten.

I guess the last bit of hope for them is if there are G/S remakes, because if those don't happen the writers really have no reason to ever use them again. Who wants to bet the next time Ash has a huge battle that Bulbasaur, Squirtle and Charizard are reunited yet again? Or Sceptile and Snorlax? Where does that leave room for the others?
 
Chikorita and Totodile for Dawn? Maybe that's where they'll be used again.

I mean, May caught a Squirtle and Bulbasaur, and the only reasons she didn't get a Charmandar was because Ash had THE Charizard, and she already had Combusken/Blazekin. If there is a Johto remake, then why not give the 4th Gen girl some 2nd Gen Pokemon? Ash's won't be back anytime soon.
 
That would be a little too predictable to do again, though. And if Dawn gets her own Johto starters, it still isn't the same as Ash using his own again.

I think the difference is the Kanto starters are very nostalgic. The writers could get away with giving May two of them (in addition to the return to Kanto), as well as Ash reuniting Bulbasaur/Squirtle/Charizard for the Battle Pyramid because they're very popular.

I think that's a reason Ash's Kanto trio always makes a return while his Johto starters didn't get the same type of treatment, they're the "middle team" now and they don't have the nostalgia going for them that his original team got.

It is unfair, but since Johto was pretty much "sandwiched" between everything else, only Ash's unique Johto Pokemon, like Donphan and Heracross, get used while his core Johto team is ignored.

It really makes me wonder if this was going through the writers minds as they chose to only bring certain Pokemon back in Battle Frontier while leaving out others.
 
I have reason to believe that the only thing Fushigidane really has going for it is Solar Beam (a thunder which Jukain stole away from him... yet he still can't be a choice for the Jindai finale over him, what... the... fuck? -_-). Otherwise, you take that away, and Bayleaf has him beat (and yes, I'm aware he tied with a Meganium... but some of that was likely Deus Ex Machina playing out, appealing to the nostalgic fanboys and all. There's no way in hell, with that size difference, they could match eachother in a Vine Whip tug-of-war). But yeah, as you said, there is the whole nostalgia bullshit, unfortunately.

Scott85 said:
It is unfair, but since Johto was pretty much "sandwiched" between everything else, only Ash's unique Johto Pokemon, like Donphan and Heracross, get used while his core Johto team is ignored.
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even Donphan didn't get very good treatment in Battle Frontier. It seems it was only there so that Satoshi's Gomazou could be worth ANYTHING (all things considered, it didn't even participate in a Gym battle in Jouto, and it didn't take long for Yougiras to steal its focus as the newborn). While it certainly grew into a capable fighter, it's bound to be forgotten much on the same level as Bayleaf, Kingler, and Betbeton.
 
It's a shame he doesn't use Totodile or Cyndaquil more, especially when agility is needed. Except for Pikachu, it seemed like they were the most agile of the land-based pokemon (in other words, they couldn't fly). I'm still irritated that Staravia (and Swellow, for that matter) don't act nearly as agile in the air as Pidgeotto/ot did, and they're smaller and thus should be more agile.

I only caught the end of the grass-related ep today, but once I figured out he was battling a gym leader, I was even more ticked off. Ash has tons of pokemon who coulda wiped up the floor with his opponents -- but did he use them? NOOOOOOOOO..... He wouldn't have even needed to use the fire ones ... any of his flyers could have won (what the hell is wrong with Staravia? How can it lose to a grass-type pokemon? Yeah, it was fast ... but DAMN.) Muk woulda won.

I find it unforgiveable that Ash doesn't use his entire collection, especially when they'd easily win (assuming they train at Oak's, since Ash rarely does anything with anyone). It can't be from the lack of teleportation devices at Pokemon Centers. And he shouldn't always rely on his Kanto starters. Yes, Charizard should be, like Pikachu, level 1000 by now -- but he has more pokemon that would actually be a surprise if he used them. Why does he insist on using pokemon his opponents are bound to have seen before? I imagine all starters of all regions are rather well-known -- so use some 2nd or even 4th tier pokemon from some random corner of a region that the opponent has never heard of.
 
ImJessieTR said:
I'm still irritated that Staravia (and Swellow, for that matter) don't act nearly as agile in the air as Pidgeotto/ot did, and they're smaller and thus should be more agile.
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this wouldn't happen to be in reference to that scene in the third episode where it dodged Dogasu's Sludge attack, would it? You just need to remember that the animation has changed a lot in the past decade, and if Pigeon/Pigeot were around today, it'd probably move just as fast as Oosubame and Mukubird do today.

ImJessieTR said:
I only caught the end of the grass-related ep today, but once I figured out he was battling a gym leader, I was even more ticked off. Ash has tons of pokemon who coulda wiped up the floor with his opponents -- but did he use them? NOOOOOOOOO..... He wouldn't have even needed to use the fire ones ... any of his flyers could have won (what the hell is wrong with Staravia? How can it lose to a grass-type pokemon? Yeah, it was fast ... but DAMN.) Muk woulda won.

I find it unforgiveable that Ash doesn't use his entire collection, especially when they'd easily win (assuming they train at Oak's, since Ash rarely does anything with anyone). It can't be from the lack of teleportation devices at Pokemon Centers. And he shouldn't always rely on his Kanto starters. Yes, Charizard should be, like Pikachu, level 1000 by now -- but he has more pokemon that would actually be a surprise if he used them. Why does he insist on using pokemon his opponents are bound to have seen before? I imagine all starters of all regions are rather well-known -- so use some 2nd or even 4th tier pokemon from some random corner of a region that the opponent has never heard of.
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um... you need to remember that ever since AG, Satoshi's decided to go with a fresh start, which is simply the writers' way of showcasing his Pokemon party for that region while dumping his previous party in the box rather than slowly getting rid of them over time (remember in Jouto? It's bad enough his party from the region got upstaged in the Shirogane Tournament, but they couldn't even start out properly. Hell, in spite of Chicorita's presence, Fushigidane hung around for over half the region, and until Bayleaf evolved their abilities were practically the exact fucking same, minus the Solar Beam that Fushi never uses outside of the rare big battles anyway). Then, as soon as some bigname tournament comes rolling around (or some other such thing like the Battle Frontier), that's when he brings out his reserves (unfortunately, it's almost always gotta be a select few big powerhouses -_-, which is exactly the kind of issue this thread focuses on).
 
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Bayleef wasn't even featured enough in Johto; Bulbasaur still held the grass spotlight until Johto was almost over.
 
^ That was pretty stupid of the writers too. The Kanto starters always overshadowed the Johto ones in the SAME EXACT saga. At least Cyndaquil had some good Gym battle wins, but of course Charizard was the main star at the Clair Gym and the Johto league.

I'm pretty happy his AG Pokemon got good spotlight. Sceptile only really got screwed out of a rematch with Brendan, but other than that it was handled well the whole saga, and Corphish/Swellow had countless wins. I'm also glad the writers redeemed Torkoal and had it nearly take down Registeel.

Let's just hope Sceptile becomes the next Charizard/Snorlax so Ash uses it again, and I can't see why he wouldn't.
 
Well, it goes to show you, Ash is getting really single-minded. Forgwtting about most of his Pokemon that helped him earn key Badges and victories. I'm suprised some of his Pokemon still like him anymore
 
Kingler was in the Whirl Cup, and Muk is contantly climbing on Oak.
 
One of the reasons i prefer pokegirls over pokemon, for the pokemon you dont want, put it in a PC and fagetaboutit. that has to be my most major gripe with pokemon.
 
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