Ashysue?

Canon characters can't be Sues or Stus. You have to give a canon character a little leeway when it comes to these things. When you have a hero, chances are he or she is going to be better than everyone else. The trick is to make him interesting.

Ash used to have insane amounts of luck when he was young and new at the whole training business, but now all his victories come from hard and experience. And plot devices. The thing about Ash is... he was actually a lot more interesting when he started out and had more luck than knowledge. Now that he has matured and became more experienced, he's boring.
 
Demon of Light said:
Canon characters can't be Sues or Stus. You have to give a canon character a little leeway when it comes to these things. When you have a hero, chances are he or she is going to be better than everyone else. The trick is to make him interesting.
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I disagree. Canon Sues/Stus just happen to follow different guidelines than OC Sues and Stus.

For example: I'm reading a book series currently. The main character is responsible for everything that happens throughout the book. Their home burns down because of him, all-out war starts because of him, he meets his future girlfriend because he rebelled against his mother, manages to survive outcomes he really shouldn't have, and so on.

In the second book, it becomes known he posesses build-in skills few rarely ever have, and then later develops a skill that he just happens to know he's capable of, has perfected it pretty much instantly, and finally has clear insight on how to use it to his advantage. And it's commonly refered to that he's the splitting image of his father, in personality and thoughts (but not in abilities).

That's a canon Stu.

And for the record, I think Artemis Fowl is a Stu too. Genius IQ, rich, powerful, and the hero capable of almost anything. His faults? Few and far between.

And Ash. Because he survives his lack-of-common sense, among other things. x_x
 
Canon characters can't be Sues or Stus.
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I wholeheartedly disagree. Roland from the Dark Tower, Wolverine from X-men, Superman, Sarah Kerrigan, Artemis Fowl, Harry and Hermione from HP, Eragon, Anita Blake, the main characters from all of Dan Brown and James Patterson's books, and Neo from the Matrix are all great examples of "Canon!Sues", IE - a Mary Sue an original published work.
 
Zeta said:
Hermione from HP
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You mean Movie!Hermione, right? Book!Hermione is very intelligent, yes, but she's still not the prettiest girl in the world and is very uptight about her studies. It's Movie!Hermione that turned into this 'GIRL POWAH!!!' sort of person.

And Eragon is a canon Stu because that trilogy is a giant fanfic disguised as an original story. =P

I still maintain that you can't have canon Sues, but eh, whatever, you can thing otherwise if you'd like. I don't feel like fighting about it.
 
Yuki Judai is also a Gary Stu.

Misawa was one...for awhile...but then he got ignored, and ran naked off to the Magical Alternate Universe Desert.

Amon seems to be somewhat of a Gary Stu now. He even has DBZ fighting skills.
 
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Wow, I wasn't sure he was quite so uber-Sue, but Ash is definitely a Mary-Sue
 
I really don't see what the big deal about Ash is. His wins aren't as cheap as they used to be anyway.

Not to mention if he was a Mary Sue he would win every league he entered. The writers made sure to have him lose in Indigo, Johto, and Hoenn so he WOULDN'T seem like a Mary Sue.

They did the same thing with May in both her Grand Festivals and will probably do it with Hikari as well.
 
Wow, I wasn't sure he was quite so uber-Sue, but Ash is definitely a Mary-Sue
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Most of his Mary Sue moments come in the movies, actually, where he keeps on dying and coming back or becoming a "Chosen One" or whatever. Generally, the earlier movies are the worst when it comes to this.
 
My character, Tait Rainsend of my new fic (see my sig...shameless plug..PLEASE READ MY FIC! )...

Got a 51, a little bit of Mary but not a lost cause..
 
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I disagree. My definition of a Sue is a character that the author(/s) is obviously in love with and constantly unfairly glorifies. Ash frequently (though less frequently from AG onwards) fails at things he attempts to do, is made to look stupid, behaves badly/densely, and so on - he's far from perfect.

The reason why it's considered Sue-like for a character to be 'special' (the Chosen One, or whatever) is because usually such characters are OCs in fanfic who show up out of nowhere and steal spotlight that rightfully ought to belong to the protagonist. Ash is the protagonist in the first place, so that rule doesn't apply to him. Main characters are supposed to have something special about them, or else why would we be watching them? I agree that it's possible for a canon character to be a Sue, but in the case of Pokemon, it'd be if some new guy popped out of the woodwork, upstaged Ash at everything and became the new hero of the show. Mary-Sues are Mary-Sues because they warp the existing canon world around them; that kind of overt wish-fulfilment isn't there in Ash's case.

As for those other examples, I haven't read or seen all of the sources, but I really don't see how Harry, Hermione or Neo are Stus/Sues. Harry and Hermione have flaws in spades and come in for their fair share of affectionate authorial mocking, Hermione especially. And Neo, like Ash and Harry, is the main character; what story would there be if he wasn't The One? Unfortunately Keanu Reeves didn't imbue him with enough of a personality for me to comment on him further. ;)

I think the problem with the whole Mary-Sue thing is that it's turned into a kind of witchhunt against any character who displays signs of being anything but ordinary. Exceptionally attractive, intelligent, nice people do exist in real life, you know. It's not the possession of these traits that makes a Sue, it's the way the character is written.

Protagonists getting out of scrapes through pure luck is annoying, but most of the time that's due to laziness on the part of the author rather than the character being a Sue.
 
...It could be, actually. The Battle Pyramid was good for it.

Going by Argy's post, Shinji also would if he became the hero.
 
Charizard, Shinji and Ash are all just fulfilling their purposes on the show. Charizard had to work really hard to reach the level it's at now; Shinji has to be strong to be taken seriously as a rival for Ash (though I agree they're overdoing it, and making him a rookie was a mistake). With true Mary-Sues, often their 'purpose' is simply to be wonderful and show up all the other characters.
 
Jo-Jo said:
Charizard had to work really hard to reach the level it's at now.
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Ash certainly had to work for that power. Not being able to rely on it (even losing his first league tournament due to that) was a problem that he had to overcome. Then, he had to deal with the initially pathetic Cyndaquil as a replacement. Ash deserves the power he got from them.

Ash also had to earn Sceptile with the move-loss when it first evolved.
 
I put my Fic Character(coughreadpleasecough) to the test on a Yugioh Version of this, and got a 150
(The Basic Mary Sue. Your character is an example of a typical Mary Sue. There's likely something about your character that qualifies him/her as a Sue, so keep adjusting your character until you get a better score on the test.)
 
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