At what episode number do you think the Sinnoh league will begin?

[Cybersai]

DP117 is the newest title so far, and we're still heading toward Snowpoint, although I imagine we'll be there by DP120 or so.

I'm pretty much predicting the Sinnoh League will start somewhere around DP150. The previous 30 eps will be the last two Gyms, the last ribbon, the final Galactic eps, and Dawn's Grand Festival.

Although at the same time I wonder if that's too much to fit into only 30 eps. Will the Galactic eps take a long time or be resolved in only a few eps? Will Dawn lose another contest to stretch out more time? Will the GF be only 3 eps again?

One thing I wonder about Sinnoh is despite it being almost over, the writers could still stretch out the tail-end of it if they want to. I actually hope this arc ends sooner so Ash can start using his older Pokemon again in the Elite 4/BF arc or whatever that comes afterward.

I'm actually starting to get a little concerned.

 

[Jesse GS the II]

Well, I also suspect we'll get the Kissaki City episodes around DP119/120. After that, they'll probably do a post-gym filler and then most likely head into the big Ginga-dan wrap-up, which'll probably occupy DP122-124 at the most (Three parts seems plausible - I doubt they'd do another two-part conclusion to the region's main story arc after what happened last time). I'd place Nagisa City at around DP140, and I suspect it'll occupy at least two episodes, maybe three for good measure.

Hikari still needs two more ribbons. I suspect she'll probably win her next one in DP114, and her fifth victory will probably come between the Ginga-dan arc and Nagisa City - I'll guess DP133. Either that, or she'll lose a contest at that point and win one after Satoshi's eighth badge, probably around DP145 or 146.

I see at least one episode of preparation before the Grand Festival, which I'd place at approximately DP151. I suspect it'll last three episodes, like it did in Houen. After that, we'll likely get one filler episode before the Shinou Final Conference at DP155, and the actual finals process will probably last about five or six episodes. Satoshi's big battle with Shinji will no doubt occur at this point.

Now here's where it gets tossed up in the air. If Satoshi faces the Four Emperors, which he might very well do, it'd be interesting to see him face Shinji in the final round, at around DP160 or 161. That'd be a great way to settle that rivalry and foreshadow what's coming ahead. I give each Emperor one episode, with an additional episode at the end where Satoshi takes on Shirona. And doubtlessly, this is where he'll get defeated, but Shirona will give him a tip about going to train at the Shinou Battle Frontier. And that'd bring us to around DP166.

Now all we need to figure out is how long the Battle Frontier will last. I give it 30 episodes at least - by then, I'm sure the fifth generation will be ready to go.

 

[dman_dustin]

Assuming we have no breaks whatsoever (and with some margin of error).

We should be done soon. If this next movie, is the last movie that takes place in the Sinnoh Region (or Sinnoh League goal) we will be at DP139 when the movie is out. Now we have approximately 52 episodes until the next movie that should take place in the filler saga.

Now adding DP139 to 52 makes: DP191, which means between DP139 and DP191, Ash will most definitely be done with the Sinnoh Region. Or maybe, Ash will barely be in the battle frontier, when Movie 8 came out and since Ash had Phanpy that's a good indicator, that maybe, maybe. Ash won't go to battle frontier, until around DP180, so we do have plenty of time.

 

[GoldChaos]

In comparison to previous arcs, the 138th episode was when Ash got the 8th badge and the 150th episode of the Johto era that Ash arrived at the Johto League on Mt. Silver. For Hoenn it was the episode 111 when he won badge number eight and the 124th episode when he arrived at the league. Considering how the length of Sinnoh resembles Johto (both had their 6th gym win on the 108th episode) Sinnoh would follow Johto's path more. Also it means about 12-13 episodes between last gym and league.


Don't forget though, the 12th movie will also be between all this. It's about 23 weeks away from now. So the series will have aired the 136th Diamond/Pearl episode by then, give or take due to the series skipping some weeks and doubling up on others.

 

[Scarlet Devil]

epi... 213...

 

[Evil Raichu]

I just hope that the anime treats Galactic better than it treated Magma and Aqua. That whole thing felt kind of rushed...obviously they have a good thing going with Galactic and a lot of the fans like them, I hope they don't mess it up just because they're in a hurry to get to the league.

DP150 seems like it's so far away, I think that'd be a fair estimate.

 

[Silktree]

Now all we need to figure out is how long the Battle Frontier will last. I give it 30 episodes at least - by then, I'm sure the fifth generation will be ready to go.

That would place the game release at the end of 2010. There is absolutely no sign that a DS successor will have been released by then, much less that Game Freak will be able to prepare the games for its launch.

Nintendo and Game Freak don't cater to the anime writers' needs.

Or maybe, Ash will barely be in the battle frontier, when Movie 8 came out and since Ash had Phanpy that's a good indicator, that maybe, maybe. Ash won't go to battle frontier, until around DP180, so we do have plenty of time.

What could they possibly do to fill over 60 episodes taking place in Sinnoh, when the important events left to cover don't even take up 20 episodes combined?

 

[dman_dustin]

What could they possibly do to fill over 60 episodes taking place in Sinnoh, when the important events left to cover don't even take up 20 episodes combined?

I realize how horribly flawed it is, it only a suggestion.

I'd say it'll be around 123 when Ash battles Candice.

Galactic Arc could take at least 5 episodes: 128

End of Galactic Arc to Sunyshore (20 episodes): 138

Sunyshore stuff (4 episodes): 142

Up to Dawn's grand festival (5 episodes): 147

Grand Festival (4 episodes): 151

In Between Grand Festival and Sinnoh League (4 episodes): 154

Sinnoh League start: 155

Sinnoh League to end of Sinnoh League Goal (12 episodes): 167

Start of Filler Saga: 168

Okay so short of 12 episodes.

For Episode ideas

Spoiler

118: Paul's Magmortar and Electabuzz evolve
119: Ash's Chimchar Evolves
120: Team Rocket Lake Acuity episode (nothing happens)
121: A Mamoswine Episode
122: Candice Introduction
123: Gym Battle
124: Explosion, back to Lake Acuity
125: The three lakes part one
126: The three lakes part two
127: Summon the legends Part one
128: Summon the legends part two
129: Summon the legends part three (basically ends here)
130: Pre Contest episode
131: Contest (Dawn Loses)
132: Another Mamoswine episode (Mamoswine half listens to Dawn)
133: Contest (Dawn wins her final ribbon)
134: Pokemon filler
135: Pokemon filler
136: Staravia evolves
137: Part One
138: Part Two
139: Lights Out (Flint and Volkner's debut)
140: Jasmine Cameo
141: Gym Battle Part One/Jessie gets another ribbon
142: Gym Battle Part Two
143: Filler Episode
144: Bertha Part One
145: Bertha Part Two
146: Paul Episode
147: Pre Grand Festival
148: Contest Appeals Part One
149: Contest Appeals Part two (ends with a battle)
150: Contest Battles
151: Contest Battles (Dawn Loses)
152: Marley Episode Part One
153: Marley Episode Part Two (Shaymin Appears)
154: Badge Case is lost
155: Mandatory Torch Episode
156: Qualifying Rounds Part One
157: Qualifying Rounds Part Two
158: Preliminaries Part One
159: Preliminaries Part Two
160: Ash vs Someone part One
161: Ash vs Someone part two/ Ash's Monferno evolves
162: Ash vs Jun part one
163: Ash vs Jun part two
164: Ash vs Paul Part One
165: Ash vs Paul Part Two (Ash wins, depending on the which he's at)
166: Ash vs someone (ends in loss)/ Closing Ceremonies
167: Oak's Ranch Part One
168: Oak's Ranch Part Two

 

[Silktree]

Those numbers look bloated to me, but there is little point in arguing over it.

I will say that if the filler series you have in mind involves the Battle Frontier, then it shouldn't start so late into Platinum's lifetime. DP168 takes us to roughly March 2010, which is 18 months after Platinum's Japanese release date. The AG Battle Frontier series followed Emerald's release after half that period: 9 months only. Considering that advertising Platinum is the primary reason for another Battle Frontier trek, I would say that delaying it past Platinum's one-year anniversary would defeat the purpose of going along with it in the first place.

 

[dman_dustin]

Those numbers look bloated to me, but there is little point in arguing over it.

I will say that if the filler series you have in mind involves the Battle Frontier, then it shouldn't start so late into Platinum's lifetime. DP168 takes us to roughly March 2010, which is 18 months after Platinum's Japanese release date. The AG Battle Frontier series followed Emerald's release after half that period: 9 months only. Considering that advertising Platinum is the primary reason for another Battle Frontier trek, I would say that delaying it past Platinum's one-year anniversary would defeat the purpose of going along with it in the first place.

Only under the assumption 5th gen is even revealed around the time of the 13th movie. You're forgetting that at most there will be only a max of 52 episodes a year. With my idea, and numbers technically the 13th movie won't appear (until DP191, at the max) with my idea, they will have already been in the Battle Frontier for at least 20 episodes.

Right Now: To the next movie, the supposed last movie of the Sinnoh League Saga will be around DP139 plus a full year is DP191. I don't see the implausibility of the situation.

 

[Silktree]

Only under the assumption 5th gen is even revealed around the time of the 13th movie. You're forgetting that at most there will be only a max of 52 episodes a year. With my idea, and numbers technically the 13th movie won't appear (until DP191, at the max) with my idea, they will have already been in the Battle Frontier for at least 20 episodes.

Right Now: To the next movie, the supposed last movie of the Sinnoh League Saga will be around DP139 plus a full year is DP191. I don't see the implausibility of the situation.

Read my post carefully: I didn't take issue with how long the filler series can be stretched out, but rather with how far apart it can be from Platinum's release date (under the assumption of the Battle Frontier being involved).

 

[dman_dustin]

Read my post carefully: I didn't take issue with how long the filler series can be stretched out, but rather with how far apart it can be from Platinum's release date (under the assumption of the Battle Frontier being involved).

Yeah but look at when Munchlax was revealed in comparison. May caught one before the Hoenn grand festival started. Now since I doubt Movie 12 will have one look at in comparison terms (the last Hoenn League Saga movie, the deoxys episode, came out near Ash's sixth badge) and it had Munchlax in it. The last Sinnoh League Saga Movie is near Ash's 8th badge, and not a single 5th gen Pokemon seems likely at this point in being in the movie. If Movie 13 is supposed to be the debut of the 5th gen. Then again we're still looking at approx: DP191, which by then Ash and Co should be doing the filler saga.

And until a 5th gen Pokemon is even hinted at I don't see the problem. Considering the longer the wait to 5th gen the more episodes there have to be.
There has to be a point where the writers have to carry Ash and Co across the bridge to 5th gen land and I don't see what else they can do but have a platinum battle frontier regardless how long it takes to start. And if the filler saga starts too early, they can't do it (properly). Remember there is only 5 Frontier brains.

 

[Silktree]

First of all, you don't need to convince me that Generation V is a long ways to come.

There has to be a point where the writers have to carry Ash and Co across the bridge to 5th gen land and I don't see what else they can do but have a platinum battle frontier regardless how long it takes to start. And if the filler saga starts too early, they can't do it (properly). Remember there is only 5 Frontier brains.

I beg to differ. The underlying assumption you are using here is that the game department will be stagnant between now and the next generation. The problem with that assumption is that entails a three-year period in which Game Freak doesn't release any new games, yet the company has never exceeded the two-year limit in the 13 years of the franchise's history.

There is also an imbalance between the number of spin-off Pokémon games for the DS (8) and the number of main versions (3). Perhaps this wouldn't be a problem if the the spin-off games offered material that could be significantly adapted in other media, but the fact that the Mystery Dungeon and Ranger games have only warranted one-time-only special episodes (and a movie in the original Ranger game's case, whose box office success was the worst of all movies) firmly suggests that that isn't the case. Seeing as the DSi has just gone a long way towards extending the DS' lifetime, there is little doubt in my mind that Game Freak should release additional versions for Generation IV.

Recently, there have been fans who expressed their wishes for seeing Generation V on the DSi. I could review the points against that prospect again, but suffice to say that once Notched-ear Pichu was revealed to be our "new" Pokémon, those fans quickly changed their minds. It is most likely that Game Freak's last project for the DS will be in the form of Gold and Silver remakes and will be released by the end of the year.

If that is indeed the case, the anime writers can feel free to tie up the Sinnoh League without rushing to advertise Platinum's Battle Frontier. For the record, I am not certain whether or not they will opt to have Ash win the league and face the Sinnoh Elite Four. I would prefer it if they did that, but the truth of the matter is that even if Ash won against Cynthia, it has already been made clear in the Lucian-centric episode that the true goal is defeating one's home-region Elite Four. With Platinum no longer being a priority, the writers would be able to use another journey through Johto to prepare Ash for the Indigo Plateau's Elite Four.

They would first need to establish the rules for being eligible to re-enter the Silver Conference. One possibility is that once 8 Johto League badges have been collected, one can re-enter the conference as many times as one likes, with the limitation of the conference being held once a year. If that were the case, Ash would just need to wait until the next conference, and could use the time to challenge the Frontier Brains for practice purposes. But it seems to me that the only reason the Frontier Brains took priority over the Kanto Gym Leaders in AG was the fact that Emerald was more recent than FireRed and LeafGreen. The notion of re-challenging the same Gym Leaders was introduced to the games in Emerald, and could make its way to the Gold and Silver remakes just as it did to Platinum. In the anime, the idea even has more merit due to the actual time gap being involved: 10 years. The Johto Gym Leaders would necessarily have teams of either 5 or 6 members, which is a big difference from their original teams, as well as from the Frontier Brains' Platinum teams.

I hesitate to mention the Kanto Gym Leaders, since their inclusion would seemingly necessitate a third journey through Kanto, but they have had updated teams since Generation II that the anime has omitted. I would say that at the very least Janine should finally be showcased, despite not having direct ties to Johto. One way or the other, the old Gym Leaders provide a lot more material with which to work than the Frontier Brains do, and Ash needs as many practice battles as he can get before he can successfully take on the Elite Four. Granted, the Frontier Brains are actually new characters, but the concept has been before, whereas re-challenging Gym Leaders when they are at their best - has not.

The above is obviously just speculation for the time being, but I feel the need to bring it up in light of your view that the Battle Frontier is the only possible route to take after the Sinnoh League. There are very good reasons to believe that Platinum will soon be replaced as the most up-to-date DS game, so going through another Battle Frontier would neither contribute to the anime's advertising factor, nor to its overarching plot (Ash should finally aspire to defeat the Elite Four - especially if he wins the Sinnoh League).

 

[dman_dustin]

First of all, you don't need to convince me that Generation V is a long ways to come.

I beg to differ. The underlying assumption you are using here is that the game department will be stagnant between now and the next generation. The problem with that assumption is that entails a three-year period in which Game Freak doesn't release any new games, yet the company has never exceeded the two-year limit in the 13 years of the franchise's history.

I disagree. Pokemon Diamond and Pearl came out Sept 28th 2006. Pokemon Platinum came out September came out in Sept 13th 2008. That alone is two years with nothing in between but games like okemon Ranger and Mystery Dungeon. What's to say that won't happen again?

And an episode takes at least 6 months to make. If by 2010 somehow there is a 2nd gen remake, September 18th 2010, At that point we'll have already been in the Pokemon Platinum Battle Frontier for about 30 episode or in other words seven and a half months. They're going to have to be tricky how they do this. If they go to Johto too quickly aka the Platinum Battle Frontier, and under the assumption there will be a remake is dangerous for the writers. And even then at 30 episodes, there will be many episodes already in production.

In the unlikely or likely (depending on your own assumptions) event of a remake being made, there has to be some connection with the anime. So we are going to have at least 30 episodes of nothing, just to wait for a synchronized event between the 3rd 4th gen main game, and the anime(Platinum counts as the second). And usually the anime reflects this change after the release. So even if somehow they were to properly gauge at what they are doing, there would still be around 26 episodes or so with nothing, in waiting for a remake to come out.

Now maybe the remake will come out in 2009 (later this year) but considering we know that the 12th movie is the last Sinnoh League Movie (approx DP139) It seems unlikely they would end Sinnoh League Saga in about 30 more episodes, considering there is still a lot they can do.

And also it seems unlikely they would end a generation in such a manner. And by that I mean, it's not fair if the 2nd gen remakes ended the generation. One would think it would end with the respective gen. And even if there is a remake. There's nothing stopping the battle frontier from moving to a different region. Just like before, but only difference is the main games are switched.

 

[Jesse GS the II]

That would place the game release at the end of 2010. There is absolutely no sign that a DS successor will have been released by then, much less that Game Freak will be able to prepare the games for its launch.

Nintendo and Game Freak don't cater to the anime writers' needs.

Hmm, good point. I forgot about the console change - I doubt the DSi will be different enough from the DS to justify the fifth generation's release. They must have something in development, though.

 

[Silktree]

I disagree. Pokemon Diamond and Pearl came out Sept 28th 2006. Pokemon Platinum came out September came out in Sept 13th 2008. That alone is two years with nothing in between but games like okemon Ranger and Mystery Dungeon. What's to say that won't happen again?

I have already said that it has been done before, but never past the two-year limit. Three years would be pushing it, especially since the spin-off games won't have a new handheld system this time (unlike in 2005). Besides, if that were really the case, the new Mystery Dungeon game wouldn't be released so soon, and there would be two versions rather than one.

And an episode takes at least 6 months to make. If by 2010 somehow there is a 2nd gen remake, September 18th 2010, At that point we'll have already been in the Pokemon Platinum Battle Frontier for about 30 episode or in other words seven and a half months. They're going to have to be tricky how they do this. If they go to Johto too quickly aka the Platinum Battle Frontier, and under the assumption there will be a remake is dangerous for the writers. And even then at 30 episodes, there will be many episodes already in production.

That paragraph wasn't very clear to read. I will say that there is no reason to wait until late 2010 for extending Generation IV. If the remakes are released, it should be by the end of this year, which is a distinct possibility at this point.

In the unlikely or likely (depending on your own assumptions) event of a remake being made, there has to be some connection with the anime. So we are going to have at least 30 episodes of nothing, just to wait for a synchronized event between the 3rd 4th gen main game, and the anime(Platinum counts as the second). And usually the anime reflects this change after the release. So even if somehow they were to properly gauge at what they are doing, there would still be around 26 episodes or so with nothing, in waiting for a remake to come out.

What is it that makes you think the writers are incapable of planning a series set in Johto and producing 20 episodes before the relevant games are released? That is exactly what they have done so far with new generations; there is no reason to deliberately avoid doing it under slightly different circumstances if the games dictate a change in plans.

Now maybe the remake will come out in 2009 (later this year) but considering we know that the 12th movie is the last Sinnoh League Movie (approx DP139) It seems unlikely they would end Sinnoh League Saga in about 30 more episodes, considering there is still a lot they can do.

I don't see what the movie has to do with anything (it should follow DP135, by the way). I agree with GoldChaos that the DP series is looking to be as long as the Johto one, but not more so. We don't need more than 19 episodes at most to cover the remaining Contest (1-2, or 3 should Dawn lose another Contest), two Gym Leaders (2-3), Galactic arc (3-4), Grand Festival (3) and Sinnoh League (7). Anything else is strictly optional, and will be carried over to the series depending on how wisely the writers choose their material for the "filler" episodes.

For the sake of discussion, suppose that the remakes were released on November 21st to coincide with the original games' tenth anniversary. By that time, DP154 will have presumably aired, which is three episodes short of the Johto series' length. That would leave the writers 18 episodes for optional events (including possible extensions of the major events), which to me seems more than sufficient.

The only events that I can't see being fit into this timetable, are the Sinnoh Elite Four battles. But for those to even be relevant, Ash would need to have won the Sinnoh League, which would be a very big step on the writers' part. Even if he were to lose to Cynthia, I can't imagine that he would go back to doing more of the same. He would most likely feel motivated to train harder for another attempt at taking on an Elite Four, be it the Sinnoh one or that of his home region. In that sense, placing the Sinnoh Elite Four arc before a new series corresponding to new games, would set up the mood perfectly. It would be anything but a waste of time.

And also it seems unlikely they would end a generation in such a manner. And by that I mean, it's not fair if the 2nd gen remakes ended the generation. One would think it would end with the respective gen.

Diamond and Pearl will be three years old by September of this year. That is how old Gold and Silver were when Ruby and Sapphire took their place. If there were a new handheld system out right now and Generation V were announced, you wouldn't be saying that Sinnoh deserves to remain in the limelight.

This isn't about being "fair" to the regions - it is about avoiding stagnancy and keeping interest in the franchise alive. If demand for a new generation can't be met (which it can't, at least not properly), then the next best thing should be done instead. That thing isn't a multitude of spin-off games that have been done before.

And even if there is a remake. There's nothing stopping the battle frontier from moving to a different region. Just like before, but only difference is the main games are switched.

It is a feasible option, but I don't see how it could be done without making the Battle Frontier seem more important than the journey through Johto itself. That is exactly what happened with that part of the AG series - it was easy to forget that it was supposed to take place in Kanto. The reason for that was obvious: FireRed and LeafGreen were 17 months old by the time Ash returned to Kanto, whereas Emerald was about half that old. The more recent game was given priority, which is exactly what will happen this year if the remakes are released.

 

[Neko Godot]

Before I start shooting my mouth off about when I think Sinnoh is going to end, I just want to know approximately what episode will it be when Movie 12 is released, and what badges do Jun and Nando have?

 

[dman_dustin]

I have already said that it has been done before, but never past the two-year limit. Three years would be pushing it, especially since the spin-off games won't have a new handheld system this time (unlike in 2005). Besides, if that were really the case, the new Mystery Dungeon game wouldn't be released so soon, and there would be two versions rather than one.

Why would there be two continuations of the same story? The new Mystery dungeon is like Platinum, Yellow, Crystal, and Emerald. There has never been 4 games of the same region in the same gen. It's only been 3 games.

That paragraph wasn't very clear to read. I will say that there is no reason to wait until late 2010 for extending Generation IV. If the remakes are released, it should be by the end of this year, which is a distinct possibility at this point.

There may not be a choice, in regards to the anime and technological development. Who knows when the 5th gen is even going to be revealed and by that I don't mean just the Pokemon game.

What is it that makes you think the writers are incapable of planning a series set in Johto and producing 20 episodes before the relevant games are released? That is exactly what they have done so far with new generations; there is no reason to deliberately avoid doing it under slightly different circumstances if the games dictate a change in plans.

That's not what I was saying. I'm saying they wouldn't go to Johto until the games are released. They would have to properly gauge the series, or else it would look odd they went to Johto for no absolute reason other than Nostalgia purposes. And I guess one of the main reasons is because there wouldn't be anything to do in Johto. Unless there is some battle frontier in the remakes I don't see how it's feasible. Sure they could make up something, like they did with Orange Islands. But I don't see the writers being that creative. And it would take too long for Ash to do the gyms again (well maybe) but there would be no reason for Ash to do another region league at this point and at that region. You would think he'd start in Kanto of all places.

I don't see what the movie has to do with anything (it should follow DP135, by the way). I agree with GoldChaos that the DP series is looking to be as long as the Johto one, but not more so. We don't need more than 19 episodes at most to cover the remaining Contest (1-2, or 3 should Dawn lose another Contest), two Gym Leaders (2-3), Galactic arc (3-4), Grand Festival (3) and Sinnoh League (7). Anything else is strictly optional, and will be carried over to the series depending on how wisely the writers choose their material for the "filler" episodes.

Assuming they just do it straight forward, that doesn't leave much for any possible development time, I guess Mamoswine could listen to Dawn next saga.

And I only bring up the movies because as far as I know they're the ones that introduce next gen or Officially brand new Pokemon. And movies take a year to make, and since this upcoming movie in July 2009 doesn't appear to have any 5th gen in it makes me think 5th gen won't be technically revealed until Movie of 2010, which means the Dawn will have been in approximately 190 episodes by then.

For the sake of discussion, suppose that the remakes were released on November 21st to coincide with the original games' tenth anniversary. By that time, DP154 will have presumably aired, which is three episodes short of the Johto series' length. That would leave the writers 18 episodes for optional events (including possible extensions of the major events), which to me seems more than sufficient.

The only events that I can't see being fit into this timetable, are the Sinnoh Elite Four battles. But for those to even be relevant, Ash would need to have won the Sinnoh League, which would be a very big step on the writers' part. Even if he were to lose to Cynthia, I can't imagine that he would go back to doing more of the same. He would most likely feel motivated to train harder for another attempt at taking on an Elite Four, be it the Sinnoh one or that of his home region. In that sense, placing the Sinnoh Elite Four arc before a new series corresponding to new games, would set up the mood perfectly. It would be anything but a waste of time.

Diamond and Pearl will be three years old by September of this year. That is how old Gold and Silver were when Ruby and Sapphire took their place. If there were a new handheld system out right now and Generation V were announced, you wouldn't be saying that Sinnoh deserves to remain in the limelight.

It is a feasible option, but I don't see how it could be done without making the Battle Frontier seem more important than the journey through Johto itself. That is exactly what happened with that part of the AG series - it was easy to forget that it was supposed to take place in Kanto. The reason for that was obvious: FireRed and LeafGreen were 17 months old by the time Ash returned to Kanto, whereas Emerald was about half that old. The more recent game was given priority, which is exactly what will happen this year if the remakes are released.

I'm quoting that whole thing so I can discuss them all nearly at the same time.

Assuming Ash loses the Sinnoh League we're back to what could Ash do in Johto? Because I don't see why he would want to rechallenge the Johto League. And Suppose he does win it, then we would have to deal with the Johto Elite Four, and I don't see there being that much time.

After Movie of 2010 there might not be much time left until 5th gen. I don't know Gen 5 in 2011? Is September the only acceptable time for a new gen to be released? Do they set goals to have something by September and whatever they don't put in will be put into the 3rd game?

And assume there won't be a 5th gen until September 2011. Dawn will have been in for 242 episodes total. And assume the sinnoh league saga ends at 154, that's almost a hundred episodes of filler saga, which might be possible, but that's a lot of episodes. Where without the Platinum Battle Frontier is really difficult to pull off. Ash needs a goal, and if it can't be anime exclusive, then the only option is the Platinum Battle Frontier. And before you argue you're the one saying that the anime basically caters to the games. I don't think you can have it both ways. You can't have Ash be in the Johto Region because of remakes and then at the same time, say the events in the Johto region (Ash's Goal) are anime exclusive. It would be pointless to drop an important game event (Platinum Battle Frontier) just because the games are so old at the point, and yet completely come up with something brand new unrelated the game and the only advertising feature is the region in which you are participating in (Whew that was a lot, sorry if you got confused at all). Of course I'll be hesitant on that, since I don't know what the remakes will have, I'll be hesitant. But assume that the remakes are exactly like its predecessor in story.

I also don't see why the new frontier brains wouldn't be introduced in the anime. Unless your saying Ash does the battle frontier earlier than March 2010. But then again I'm back to he has nothing to do in Johto. Of course this is under the assumption that Ash loses the Sinnoh League. I mean if he wins it faces Cynthia loses, then maybe but again I'm back to why would he go to Johto? Unless they make Ash realize his Johto team didn't do squat in the Johto region, he dumps his Sinnoh Team and takes Cyndaquil, Noctowl, Totodile, Bayleef, and maybe he catches something new, like Eevee(Espeon) and Donphan and Heracross come back occasionally for gym battles. Now in anime terms that would be a remake. But I don't see that at all possible.

Before I start shooting my mouth off about when I think Sinnoh is going to end, I just want to know approximately what episode will it be when Movie 12 is released, and what badges do Jun and Nando have?

Approximately I think the maximum it could be is DP133. Jun has three badges, I assume Paul has 6 or 7 depending on whether the writers want Paul to be a badge ahead or not. Even though so far we've only seen him with 3 (that we've seen him have, the Coal Badge, Cobble Badge, and Relic Badge).

 

[Silktree]

Why would there be two continuations of the same story? The new Mystery dungeon is like Platinum, Yellow, Crystal, and Emerald. There has never been 4 games of the same region in the same gen. It's only been 3 games.

You're missing the point: If the the spin-off games became the center of the game department for the next three years as you're suggesting, they wouldn't bother passing off a new game as a third game. Instead, they would be spending more time developing a real sequel in the form of two versions that would sell better and generate greater interest.

There may not be a choice, in regards to the anime and technological development. Who knows when the 5th gen is even going to be revealed and by that I don't mean just the Pokemon game.

We both agree that Generation V can't realistically be expected to see the light of day before late 2011, but I was (as were you) referring to the remakes. If they are on the agenda, there is no reason to delay their release to as late as September 2010.

That's not what I was saying. I'm saying they wouldn't go to Johto until the games are released. They would have to properly gauge the series, or else it would look odd they went to Johto for no absolute reason other than Nostalgia purposes.

There is no problem with that whatsoever. If anything, a short Sinnoh Elite Four arc might make the anime a tad late in following the latest games.

And I guess one of the main reasons is because there wouldn't be anything to do in Johto. Unless there is some battle frontier in the remakes I don't see how it's feasible.

There could easily be a Battle Frontier in Johto as an extension to the existing Battle Tower, but I tend to think that that would be the cheap solution. Preferably, the remakes will not copycat Platinum as Platinum did to Emerald (variations on the facilities don't mean a great deal). I think it would be better for the Battle Tower to be more varied, as in the current games it suffers from being contained in a loop of the same field of overused Pokémon being used time after time. Other than that, there should finally be random Wi-Fi battles in a fashion that encourages both casual and competitive players to engage in such battles. But I digress.

And it would take too long for Ash to do the gyms again (well maybe) but there would be no reason for Ash to do another region league at this point and at that region.

Once the filler and introductory episodes are cut, it is quite easy to see how the Johto region and its characters (as do any other region's) can be fit into a two-year span. Assuming the remakes are released by the end of this year, they will indeed have two years all to themselves.

I have already discussed why it would be in Ash's interest to re-challenge the same Gym Leaders. If the rematches from Emerald and Platinum are carried over to the remakes (and unlike with the Battle Frontier, there is no excuse not do so), then a new series set in Johto will be the perfect opportunity to finally showcase Gym Leaders at their prime - it only so happens that they will be the Johto Gym Leaders. In terms of giving Ash an opportunity to use as many of his past Pokémon (most prominently the Generation II ones) as possible, Gym Leaders rematches are ideal.

Assuming they just do it straight forward, that doesn't leave much for any possible development time, I guess Mamoswine could listen to Dawn next saga.

Not only can that development always be done later, but it is also not the sort of thing that requires its own set of episodes. The anime has done a relatively good job handling the development of the characters' teams in seemingly unrelated episodes.

And I only bring up the movies because as far as I know they're the ones that introduce next gen or Officially brand new Pokemon. And movies take a year to make, and since this upcoming movie in July 2009 doesn't appear to have any 5th gen in it makes me think 5th gen won't be technically revealed until Movie of 2010, which means the Dawn will have been in approximately 190 episodes by then.

You're arguing about this with the wrong person.

After Movie of 2010 there might not be much time left until 5th gen. I don't know Gen 5 in 2011? Is September the only acceptable time for a new gen to be released?

Obviously, there won't be much time left until Generation V if for some very odd reason the remakes are delayed unnecessarily. You're making up a problem where it doesn't exist.

Incidentally, September is far from being the only possible month: October, November (especially so), December, January and February have all been used for releasing the main series' games.

I mean if he wins it faces Cynthia loses, then maybe but again I'm back to why would he go to Johto? Unless they make Ash realize his Johto team didn't do squat in the Johto region, he dumps his Sinnoh Team and takes Cyndaquil, Noctowl, Totodile, Bayleef, and maybe he catches something new, like Eevee(Espeon) and Donphan and Heracross come back occasionally for gym battles. Now in anime terms that would be a remake. But I don't see that at all possible.

The writers will merely need to explain that in order to become a regional Champion, it is also required to have been born in that region. They practically did as much in the Lucian episode. Once that point is re-clarified without ambiguity, it should also be explained that both Kanto and Johto are governed by the Elite Four, so that as long as one was born in either region and conquered either the Indigo Plateau or the Silver Conference, one is deemed as an eligible oppponent for that Elite Four.

The outcome of the Sinnoh League won't even matter by much. If Ash wins it, then he should quite certainly aim for the Elite Four Championship; regardless of whether or not he beats Cynthia, the logical next step is to concentrate on the Elite Four Championship of his own region. On the other hand, if Ash loses yet again, it should become quite clear that going through a new region with a new team isn't the right strategy to win a league. In both scenarios, another journey through Johto is one of the most sensible solutions by which Ash can advance himself towards being perceived as a Champion in his own right.

Approximately I think the maximum it could be is DP133.

If we assume that there will only be one break - in the week preceding the movie premiere (or that any other break will be compensated for by a double airing) - then the movie will be sandwiched between DP135 and DP136.

 

[Cybersai]

So what do you guys think will happen now that the GSC starters are in the Movie 12 poster?

I really have no desire to see Ash go back to Johto, but it is obvious they're going to need to kill some time before the next gen.

Thoughts?