Back For Another Go

[Coontank!]

I've been so busy with school since it started that I haven't had time to even touch my DS until lately. But I've decided to still try that Poison team I've been working on. It's for Wi-Fi; not necessarily for UU or OU or any specific tier, just whatever I happen to come across or for battling friends. For fun. Here it is again, but with some changes I made after not looking at it for a while.


Nidoqueen @ Leftovers: Poison Point
Impish/Careful nature; 252 HP, 128 Def, 128 SpDef
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock

Nothing special here, but I bet there's room for improvement somewhere that I'm overlooking.



Drapion @ Leftovers: Battle Armor
Impish/Careful nature; 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Atk
- Knock Off
- Screech/Whirlwind
- Taunt
- Crunch

I changed Drapion from offensive to defensive since last time.



Toxicroak @ Black Sludge: Dry Skin
Adamant nature; 252 HP, 128 Atk, 128 Spd OR 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spd
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Cross Chop/Focus Punch
- Sucker Punch

I don't have a Rain Dancer on the team, and I'm a little concerned about that with Toxicroak's Dry Skin. Cross Chop or Focus Punch is kind of up in the air for me. Any recommendation for which one I should use would be great.



Tentacruel @ ???: Clear Body
Modest nature; 252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 SpDef
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Rapid Spin

Not sure how Sludge Bomb will work out. Not sure of an item. I don't want to waste a slot with Rain Dance, because the only one who could benefit from it would be Toxicroak .



Gengar @ ???: Levitate
Timid nature; 252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
- Destiny Bond

I replaced Focus Blast from last time with Destiny Bond because I already have Fighting moves on my team and I want to be able to force switches with something other than Drapion if it gets Whirlwind. Plus I felt like I was just copying and pasting a set from anyone else's Gengar. Not that Destiny Bond makes it unique or anything...



Skuntank @ Life Orb: Aftermath
Hasty nature; 252 Atk, 204 Spd, 54 SpAtk
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Explosion
- Poison Jab

Nothing special here.



So how do you think this team will work out? I especially need help with EV spreads (as you can see, I'm not creative... at all), and items. [Note, as far as choice items go, I have a Band and a Scarf, but I’m not fond of them.] Pretty much any help is appreciated of course.
Thanks!

 

[Coontank!]

Sorry if this is annoying to ask, but I can please have some help with my team?

 

[dukeburger]

I'm not good at rating teams as a whole, but everything on your team except for Gengar is earthquake weak. You may want to consider putting energy ball on his moveset so he can switch into an earthquake and hit back with that (assuming you're facing a ground type). I have that on the Gengar for my sandstorm team, where my rock and steels are weak to earthquake. I also use expert belt.

You may want to put roar on your Nidoqueen so you can at least spread poison and stealth rock damage (and you could even try changing her ability to rivalry since poison point would be sort of redundant).

And I think you may as well put anticipation on your Toxicroak, since dry skin isn't going to help him.

I hope that helps a little bit at least. My overall opinion though is that a poison monotype team would be really hard to pull off, as it makes you weak to one of the strongest moves in the game, not to mention a bunch of other type weaknesses, and offers you poor coverage. You only have one poison move on your team (aside from toxic spikes) and despite the theme I wouldn't even suggest using more poison moves.

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

Anticipation is a good ability and can tell you which of your opponent's Pokemon are carrying Earthquake, but Dry Skin will let you switch into predicted water attacks, probably aimed at Nidoqueen. I think either would be an okay choice.

With your defense EVs, particularly on Drapion, you generally want to boost one of the defenses and leave the other alone, using your prediction skills to keep it away from attacks it can't handle. Switch Drapion's SpDef EVs to Def, as that will make it bulkier from a physical point. Tentacruel can act as a special wall.

I like Focus Punch on Toxicroak better even though it requires a little more prediction. With Cross Chop however, you can either keep the speed EVs you have, or increase them to 200 to outrun Modest non-scarf Heatran, which may try to counter due to dry skin.

Any mono-type team is only rarely going to win, as it is difficult to counter anything. Still, I think you could pull off a few wins with this, provided you play very intelligently. It'll be hard though.

 

[Coontank!]

I'm not good at rating teams as a whole, but everything on your team except for Gengar is earthquake weak. You may want to consider putting energy ball on his moveset so he can switch into an earthquake and hit back with that (assuming you're facing a ground type). I have that on the Gengar for my sandstorm team, where my rock and steels are weak to earthquake. I also use expert belt.

Hmm... so maybe...
Gengar @ Expert Belt: Levitate
Timid nature; 252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 Def
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Destiny Bond

You may want to put roar on your Nidoqueen so you can at least spread poison and stealth rock damage (and you could even try changing her ability to rivalry since poison point would be sort of redundant).

That suggestion works out well since I wasn't able to breed a Nidoran female with Poison Point for the life of me! Haha. But I see what you mean about Roar. Even if Drapion does get Whirlwind, I'll need to take advantage of all the Stealth Rock and Spikes damage I can.

With your defense EVs, particularly on Drapion, you generally want to boost one of the defenses and leave the other alone, using your prediction skills to keep it away from attacks it can't handle.

So I assume the same should go for Nidoqueen?

Nidoqueen @ Leftovers: Rivalry
Careful nature; 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Atk
- Roar
- Earthquake
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock

Tentacruel can act as a special wall.

I was hoping to sweep with Tentacruel, but I can probably incorporate it as a wall as well. I'd have to sacrifice speed EVs, but maybe it would be worth my while? So something like this...

Tentacruel @ ???: Clear Body
Modest nature; 252 SpAtk, 252 SpDef, 4 Spd
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Rapid Spin

...with some sort of speed-boosting item if there is one? I'd also like to replace Sludge Bomb with something more useful to its walling task.

I like Focus Punch on Toxicroak better even though it requires a little more prediction.

Well I can use Focus Punch freely while under Substitute, right? I might be mistaken...




[THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE HELP, GUYS ]

 

[dukeburger]

Hmm... so maybe...
Gengar @ Expert Belt: Levitate
Timid nature; 252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 Def
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Destiny Bond

I probably should have mentioned this, but I will now just so you know, is that the way I use my Gengar is so that he sits in the back and waits until he has to save my butt. Just keep that in mind if you choose to do energy ball and expert belt. I'm not saying that in your case he would have to fill that role, but I wouldn't want you to feel as if you wasted a move slot and item. I personally prefer explosion (with a hasty nature) to destiny bond, but ultimately that choice is your's.

I was hoping to sweep with Tentacruel, but I can probably incorporate it as a wall as well. I'd have to sacrifice speed EVs, but maybe it would be worth my while? So something like this...

Tentacruel @ ???: Clear Body
Modest nature; 252 SpAtk, 252 SpDef, 4 Spd
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Rapid Spin

...with some sort of speed-boosting item if there is one? I'd also like to replace Sludge Bomb with something more useful to its walling task.

If you're going to be using it as a special wall, then mirror coat would be a really good replacement for sludge bomb, if you're not afraid to use it. Yes, the speed boosting item would be choice scarf, but that's generally not used on a wall, and you wouldn't really want to use that on a set with rapid spin and mirror coat (should you choose to go that route).

Well I can use Focus Punch freely while under Substitute, right? I might be mistaken...

You're correct, as long as you feel confident that you can safely throw up a substitute. I think what Cheezus is Lord was getting at is that if you can predict a switch, you use focus punch to hit the pokemon coming in.

[THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE HELP, GUYS ]

No problem, I'm glad to help. I usually keep silent in this thread because I'm afraid of ruining peoples' teams, but I felt bad that you didn't get any responses yet people who don't even try seem to get a ton of them.

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

So I assume the same should go for Nidoqueen?

Nidoqueen @ Leftovers: Rivalry
Careful nature; 252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 Atk
- Roar
- Earthquake
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock

Nidoqueen seems a little different to me since because it will be roaring through a few Pokemon, it may need to take hits from both sides. I'm not sure on this though, as I usually don't use this strategy. In either case, Nidoqueen's defense is better, and since it is weak to Ice and Water, it may be better to buff its defense a little more. Max HP is good, though.

You're correct, as long as you feel confident that you can safely throw up a substitute. I think what Cheezus is Lord was getting at is that if you can predict a switch, you use focus punch to hit the pokemon coming in.

Yes, that is what I was referring to. To give a situation, something switches in that you can outspeed but you need to hit with fighting (like specs heatran) and you didn't predict it. You can throw up a substitute, but it will break it before you can use Focus Punch safely behind it. If you had Cross Chop, you could hit back anyway before it did anything. However, if you did predict the switch and Focus Punch/Substituted, you'd be in much better shape, especially if you didn't outspeed.

I was hoping to sweep with Tentacruel, but I can probably incorporate it as a wall as well. I'd have to sacrifice speed EVs, but maybe it would be worth my while? So something like this...

Tentacruel @ ???: Clear Body
Modest nature; 252 SpAtk, 252 SpDef, 4 Spd
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Rapid Spin

I'm now torn on your Tentacruel. Max speed would let it tie max speed no boost Salamence and Zapdos and hit back with Ice Beam. But that would really reduce its potential as a special wall, which you desperately need. I think, since Tentacruel is probably the best Poison Pokemon special defensively, that you should try to get a special sweeper in your team somewhere else. I really don't want to recommend switching something out, but it might be a good idea.

On the Skuntank, an interesting idea for it if that set doesn't work out is Screech/Pursuit. Try to force a switch with Screech and Pursuit for massive damage.

If someone more experienced than me wanted to comment, that would be good too.

 

[Coontank!]

I'm not saying that in your case he would have to fill that role, but I wouldn't want you to feel as if you wasted a move slot and item.

Oh, of course. Even though we'd be using Gengar differently, I think your Energy Ball idea would be worth it on my team. I should have as many counters for Poison's weaknesses as I can.

If you're going to be using it as a special wall, then mirror coat would be a really good replacement for sludge bomb, if you're not afraid to use it. Yes, the speed boosting item would be choice scarf, but that's generally not used on a wall, and you wouldn't really want to use that on a set with rapid spin and mirror coat (should you choose to go that route).

Well I've never been able to use Mirror Coat successfully, so I'd better stay away from that haha.

I think, since Tentacruel is probably the best Poison Pokemon special defensively, that you should try to get a special sweeper in your team somewhere else. I really don't want to recommend switching something out, but it might be a good idea.

I could use Gengar for the special sweeper just as well. But the Tentacool that I have at the moment is Modest, and has 31 IVs in SpAtk, and 30 in SpDef. So I'd like it to be a sweeper because of the nature to go with the IV. But the 30 in SpDef is nothing to toss aside either epecially since I need a special wall so badly (and I agree with what you said about Nidoqueen's EVs going to better use in Def rather than SpDef).

And this is kinda random, but since we're on Tentacruel... Does anyone know how useful the move Wring Out would be? It looks good in theory, but I dont' really know anything about it.

Nidoqueen seems a little different to me since because it will be roaring through a few Pokemon, it may need to take hits from both sides.

If you had Cross Chop, you could hit back anyway before it did anything. However, if you did predict the switch and Focus Punch/Substituted, you'd be in much better shape, especially if you didn't outspeed.

Well my original plan for Nidoqueen was for it to have Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, but then give her Substitute and Focus Punch. But then I chose Earthquake for STAB purposes so Toxicroak could make use of Focus Punch as one. It doesn't make sense to have them flip-floped, obviously, but I like the reliability of the Cross Chop choice on Toxicroak. Then again, I also like the idea of being able to use Bulk Up behind a Substitute.

But back to Nidoqueen's Roar... to spread the Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock damage, maybe it would be more intelligent to put Whirlwind on Drapion. It's faster than Nidoqueen, and may not be hit as often as she would.

On the Skuntank, an interesting idea for it if that set doesn't work out is Screech/Pursuit. Try to force a switch with Screech and Pursuit for massive damage.

I had thought of the same thing, except I had planned to do it with Drapion. Maybe I can incorporate that as well...

Drapion @ Leftovers: Battle Armor
Impish nature; 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk
- Knock Off
- Screech
- Pursuit
- Whirlwind
[Not sure about EVs though]

And then this...
Nidoqueen @ Leftovers: Rivalry
Careful nature; 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
[I still don't feel like Protect will do anything substantial, but... hmm... And I know the nature and the Def EVs don't match up, but the Nidorina that I have is Careful]

So I can have this...
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge: Dry Skin
Adamant nature; 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spd
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Cross Chop
- Sucker Punch
[As good as the 200 EVs in Speed sound, my Croagunk has 31 IVs in Atk and I want to take full advantage of that. I guess I'll just cross my fingers and hope that Bulking Up behind the Substitute will work. Unless I should just forget Substitute and make it a physical sweeper...]


THANKS SO MUCH AGAIN FOR YOUR TIME

 

[dukeburger]

And this is kinda random, but since we're on Tentacruel... Does anyone know how useful the move Wring Out would be? It looks good in theory, but I dont' really know anything about it.

Not very useful, as far as I know. It's a normal type move and from what I understand, it maxes out at 110, which is conditional anyway. Maybe on a normal type, but I wouldn't recommend it here.

But back to Nidoqueen's Roar... to spread the Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock damage, maybe it would be more intelligent to put Whirlwind on Drapion. It's faster than Nidoqueen, and may not be hit as often as she would.

Roar and whirlwind both have a negative priority (-6 to be exact, apparently), so you will always go last (unless I suppose your opponent also uses that, or trick room). You will need them to take hits if you want it to work, so you can keep it on Nidoqueen if you originally would have anyway, or leave it up to Drapion if you don't want to be taking so many hits. In my opinion, I'd try pulling it off with both of them if you can - the extra damage you spread around could be the determining factor of winning or not, since as Cheesus is Lord said, you will have to play well to pull this team off.

Nidoqueen @ Leftovers: Rivalry
Careful nature; 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
[I still don't feel like Protect will do anything substantial, but... hmm... And I know the nature and the Def EVs don't match up, but the Nidorina that I have is Careful]

Well, I assume you'd be using protect to stall and let poison take its effect or to scout - either way, not a bad choice, should you choose to drop roar. Scouting could be pretty helpful since you're going to be facing common moves that your whole team is weak to. I think personally I'd still go with roar, but really, both look like good choices to me.

Toxicroak @ Black Sludge: Dry Skin
Adamant nature; 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spd
- Substitute
- Bulk Up
- Cross Chop
- Sucker Punch
[As good as the 200 EVs in Speed sound, my Croagunk has 31 IVs in Atk and I want to take full advantage of that. I guess I'll just cross my fingers and hope that Bulking Up behind the Substitute will work. Unless I should just forget Substitute and make it a physical sweeper...]

Well yes, you will need some prediction luck, but just don't make the mistake that some people do and throw up a substitute on something that can clearly break it in one move. I don't know why people do this...

 

[Coontank!]

Okay then. I'll go through my team again and reconstruct what I need to. Thanks so much for all of your suggestions, dukeburger and Cheesus is Lord! Really, it's a huge help

 

[Wiilio]

As it's been pointed out, this team is really weak to Ground, but that's to be expected from a Poison team... or is it? Try to use more Poison types that are neutral/immune to Ground. I think the whole list is Gengar, Crobat, Weezing, Vileplume, Victreebel, Venusaur, and Roserade... at least these are all the ones that can be of SOME use.