Best Wishes - what happened?

[SlimeStack]

People like to say earthquakes, but that can't be true.

Looking at the placement of the gym episodes, Iris & Drayden episode, the Pokémon League and Episode N, I think several things are actually hastily altered Black & White 1 stories.

Ash gets his 8th badge about 3 episodes after his 7th, so it's quite obvious to me that the abrupt Virbank City detour was thrown on top of the original Best Wishes plan late enough. If you remove this badge, perhaps moving Iris' episode forward a little bit as a result, Ash could have been challenging Drayden after a decently paced gap. Challenging a gym leader twice or having two characters take on a gym leader is nothing new to the show, so turning Opelucid into a two episode stop would have worked fine.

The Pokémon League could easily have always been planned to air around the point that it did. Isn't it a bit convenient that N and Neo Plasma are introduced immediately after? What if the original plan was for N to interrupt the league like in BW and bring back the original Plasma team for the first time since the Meteonite arc? Airing the missing episodes or just altering it to make it their first appearance would have worked fine in terms of the earthquakes. The fact that parts of BW1's story with N, Reshiram and Dragonspiral Tower made it into Episode N makes it seem like it's altered from the original overall series plan.

In terms of Team Rocket, aside from maybe some mention of Plasma or the Meteonite to connect the Meteonite and two Kami trio arcs together, I feel like nothing really changed with them. Maybe they would have involved themselves in the original N plot like they did in the one we got, but that's it. The World Tournament Junior Cup could have easily been a Don Tournament. In fact it pretty much was a Don Tournament with a couple of bells and whistles to promote B2W2.

As for Decolora Adventure? They could have easily used Eastern Unova, White Forest and Black City for a filler arc since Best Wishes was always meant to be faster paced and shorter than DP as far as I remember. But since they used it all up for the Black 2 and White 2 promotion, the Decolora Archipelago was born.

What do people think?

 

[SammyW27]

It's clear that at some point the producers just plain gave up on making BW as good as it could be and just decided just to kill time and pander to fans while promoting new/upcoming games. The Seismic Disaster might've played a big part, but there's more to it. The Sequel Games, Gen 5's shortness and some last minute Gen 6 promoting were thrown into the mix and BW ended up being one of the worst sagas ever (THE Worst )

The most tragic part? It really didn't have to be :bawl:

Even with Team Plasma banned, there's no excuse for such terrible, terrible writing all around. I see no reason why they couldn't have carried on without TP, promoted B2W2 & Gen 6 and STILL have made much better episodes.

For starters, they should've had the rules changed to where Ash needed 10 badges to enter the League. That way they still could've promoted the new games with Homika and Marlon (with Homika getting a better battle) with Drayden still being last (maybe using some his Pokémon from the World Tournament to be more of a challenge) so they could have a storyline to work with. All at a better pace, of course.

Speaking of the World Tournament, they should've given it an arc to kill time while brining back old characters and Pokémon aplenty. Would've beaten the heck out of the slog that was Junior Cup and even that sorry excuse for a League.

Ash didn't have to be an idiot who won through dumb luck and deus ex machinas, Iris didn't need to hog the spotlight with an overpowered Dragonite & her problems magically solving themselves, and Cilan could've been more useful and less annoying. Kotty and Virgil could've shown up earlier and more to have better build up and more depth aside from being grotesquely stupid and infallible, respectively. There's certainly no reason for such a terrible, terrible League (a filler episode right in the middle of it? Really?!)

Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident, but still had decent writing and good moments. Johto was messed up by the GS Herring, but was able to get its groove back in grand fashion (IMHO). Isshu? Things just got out of hand and the producers eventually decided to half ass it and move on...

 

[Necrozma]

What happened? Good ideas, bad executions.

Massive, annoying fandom complaints didn't help its reputation either. Best Wishes! is by no means that bad, it has quite a few great episodes, some amusing characters and can be pretty enjoyable if given a chance. Sadly, it's the threads like these that make it seem a lot worse than it actually is.

What is this, a thread #13898 on what has Best Wishes done wrong? Seriously.

 

[Supreme Leader Palpitoad]

I actually like BW pretty much. It was bad that the league was rushed and Ashs loss to Cameron. And no Virgil battle. And rotation was terribly executed. Junior Cup too. But it is not more worse than that.

 

[SlimeStack]

What happened? Good ideas, bad executions.

Massive, annoying fandom complaints didn't help its reputation either. Best Wishes! is by no means that bad, it has quite a few great episodes, some amusing characters and can be pretty enjoyable if given a chance. Sadly, it's the threads like these that make it seem a lot worse than it actually is.

What is this, a thread #13898 on what has Best Wishes done wrong? Seriously.

Where on earth is this all coming from? There isn't a single piece of criticism in my post. This is not a bashing topic. I'm pointing out that the decision to end gen V with sequels instead of a 3rd version had an impact on where the story went after the 7th badge. The way certain events are positioned makes it look like there was originally a plan for the expected Black & White story coverage, and that those events were redressed to work with Black 2 and White 2 instead, which as a result gives us a slightly different story.

 

[Sweet Veil]

It's clear that at some point the producers just plain gave up on making BW as good as it could be and just decided just to kill time and pander to fans while promoting new/upcoming games.

Fans are the five-year-old merchandise buying youngster, they aren't pandering to fans. You overestimate the size of Bulbagarden if you think the writers even are aware of this forum's existence let alone would even would "pander" to a minority of angry, English-speaking nerds on a Pokemon forum. Bulbagarden is very very small with an anime section of around 70 members with only like 23 or so really vocal members regularly, it likely makes up less than 0.000001% of the actual Pokemon fanbase. The writers aren't catering to anyone on this forum, I can assure you that.

Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident,

That's not even funny.

 

[SuperTrainStationH]

...

Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident,

That's not even funny.

In no way was he making light of or making fun of the seizure incident in saying that.

Even so, the permanent global banning of the seizure episode had no effect on Kanto's writing or plot progression. Not only did the episode actually air, but it was a character of the day story that had such little impact on the plot that its withdrawal had no impact on the storyline.

This is in stark contrast to "Rocket Vs. Plasma", which was quite likely one of the biggest and most hyped story arcs in the history of the Pokémon anime and the axis of the promotional materials leading up to the debut of the Pokémon Black & White based anime series, whose removal may have impacted what the writers were planning for the Best Wishes overall plot in more ways than the public will ever know.

 

[Supreme Leader Palpitoad]

Fans are the five-year-old merchandise buying youngster, they aren't pandering to fans. You overestimate the size of Bulbagarden if you think the writers even are aware of this forum's existence let alone would even would "pander" to a minority of angry, English-speaking nerds on a Pokemon forum. Bulbagarden is very very small with an anime section of around 70 members with only like 23 or so really vocal members regularly, it likely makes up less than 0.000001% of the actual Pokemon fanbase. The writers aren't catering to anyone on this forum, I can assure you that.

Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident,

That's not even funny.

But there are more forums for pokemon. Serebii for example. There are more angry english speaking nerds than us on Bulbagarden. And that must be more than 0,000001 %.

 

[Sweet Veil]

But there are more forums for pokemon. Serebii for example. There are more angry english speaking nerds than us on Bulbagarden. And that must be more than 0,000001 %.

Basically:

The fandom = Grain of sand.
The target audience and casual watchers = Bowling Ball

 

[SammyW27]

Kanto was messed up by the Seizure Incident,

That's not even funny.

Wasn't supposed to be. That's a cold harsh fact. Or at least I thought so.

Even so, the permanent global banning of the seizure episode had no effect on Kanto's writing or plot progression. Not only did the episode actually air, but it was a character of the day story that had such little impact on the plot that its withdrawal had no impact on the storyline.

Funny, I thought that hiatus had a bad effect on their over all intentions, like how Kanto was originally supposed to last a year and a half or how Movie 1 was suppose to tie into the show tighter and even be the grand finale. Though I could've misread/misinterpreted.

Fans are the five-year-old merchandise buying youngster, they aren't pandering to fans. You overestimate the size of Bulbagarden if you think the writers even are aware of this forum's existence let alone would even would "pander" to a minority of angry, English-speaking nerds on a Pokemon forum. Bulbagarden is very very small with an anime section of around 70 members with only like 23 or so really vocal members regularly, it likely makes up less than 0.000001% of the actual Pokemon fanbase. The writers aren't catering to anyone on this forum, I can assure you that.

I'm not talking about us on this forum. I'm talking about in general. Kinda hard to miss.

They pointlessly bought back Dawn out of desperation. They bought back Cynthia (sure she's in the games, but it still feels a little suspicious). They had Giovanni step up to bat (I know that was intended from the TPvTR 2 parter, but still). They bought back the Evee Family and went out of their way to have Lucario appear. It almost felt like N and Team Plasma were bought in to appease fans. They randomly bought back Charizard. We've had two episodes with Kanto flashbacks & shout outs, and the upcoming Lapras episode will likely have an Orange Island flashback, I shouldn't wonder. The Decolora Archipelago is infested with Pokémon from previous generations. Oak's been popped for a while (even reviving that Muk running gag while they're at it) and got an episode. We're getting a Claire episode. The TRio is back to being the Bungle Brigade. We may or may not have appearances by Delia and Tracey near the end. There's even the DA ending, with its many cameos by characters past.

If that isn't pandering, it sure feels like it!

 

[Necrozma]

Where on earth is this all coming from? There isn't a single piece of criticism in my post. This is not a bashing topic. I'm pointing out that the decision to end gen V with sequels instead of a 3rd version had an impact on where the story went after the 7th badge. The way certain events are positioned makes it look like there was originally a plan for the expected Black & White story coverage, and that those events were redressed to work with Black 2 and White 2 instead, which as a result gives us a slightly different story.

I apologize, I just feel like this thread will turn into another one of those threads where people will comment on what Best Wishes should have done, how much it messed up, etc. I know it's not your intention, sorry for reacting the way I did. :/

If you remove this badge, perhaps moving Iris' episode forward a little bit as a result, Ash could have been challenging Drayden after a decently paced gap. Challenging a gym leader twice or having two characters take on a gym leader is nothing new to the show, so turning Opelucid into a two episode stop would have worked fine.

Well, we know that Ash was going to challenge Drayden because one of his earlier badge cases had indentations for Drayden's badge, but as of later episodes, those simply because empty round spots. Personally I liked this change since it gave Iris the chance to have Drayden for her own story arc while at the same time allowing Ash to battle Roxie as an introduction into season 2.

What if the original plan was for N to interrupt the league like in BW and bring back the original Plasma team for the first time since the Meteonite arc?

Actually, in the trailer for TR VS TP, one of the Plasma grunts made a reference to their 'hero' (I assume he meant N) for whom they were trying to get the Meteonite, I believe. So, I guess it IS possible that N was going to appear later on.

In terms of Team Rocket, aside from maybe some mention of Plasma or the Meteonite to connect the Meteonite and two Kami trio arcs together, I feel like nothing really changed with them.

Agreed. I feel like they had many random, unconnected missions that had nothing to do with the main plot whatsoever. If the two-parter wasn't banned, I wonder if they'd have a prolonged conflict with Team Plasma.

 

[Sweet Veil]

They pointlessly bought back Dawn out of desperation.

Every Pokegirl comes every saga.

They bought back Cynthia (though at least she did something).

Because she appears in Undella Town in BW2, where is her villa? In Undella Town in the anime, the place where Ash and gang stay during the WTJC.

They had Giovanni step up to bat (I know that was intended from the TPvTR 2 parter, but still).

Team Rocket were the main villains of BW, of course he's going to appear.

N and Team Plasma were most likely bought in to appease fans.

The writers aren't . We aren't even on their radar, they really could not give a damn about what we have to say honestly.

They randomly bought back Charizard.

Marketing. They brought back the Johto Starters in DP for HGSS and a slew of other Pokemon.

We've had two episodes with Kanto flashbacks & shout outs, and the upcoming Lapras episode will likely have an Orange Island flashback, I shouldn't wonder.

There was literally five seconds of flashback in the Butterfree episode and the Charizard episode was flashback, that was it. That doesn't equate to "appeasing" fans. For the record the Charizard and Butterfree episode ratings were not anymore special than any other episode's ratings, literally the same thing as usual. The fandom doesn't impact ratings because it's not accounted for and the "fandom" isn't as gigantic as you think the writers aren't doing these things to please us. What you view as subjective pandering is not, that is absolute.

The Decolora Archipelago is infested with Pokémon from previous generations.

Older Pokemon are appearing again because there's no need to have them absent from the show anymore.

Oak's been popping up a fair bit lately and got an episode (even reviving that Muk running gag while they're at it).

Oak appeared in DP and AG a few times as well.

We're getting a Claire episode.

That's not "appeasing" older fans.

The TRio is back to being the Bungle Brigade.

Not because of older fans, more likely because of their VA and the success of their radio show.

We may or may not have appearances by Delia and Tracey near the end. And even the DA ending, with its many cameos by characters past.

Nothing but speculation and even then we get appearances by them in nearly every series, Delia appeared in the beginning of BW.

If that isn't pandering, it sure feels like it!

\"It feels like it!" does not make it fact, it's okay to not like BW, but I wish fans on this forum would get their facts straight and wouldn't make misstatements about the show just because they don't like it if you're so adamant about making any old comment about the technical viewpoints of the show it should at least be accurate and hold some water.

 

[97SaturnSL1]

But there are more forums for pokemon. Serebii for example. There are more angry english speaking nerds than us on Bulbagarden. And that must be more than 0,000001 %.

Basically: The fandom = Grain of sand.
The target audience and casual watchers = A Bowling Ball

More like

The fandom = Grain of sand.
The target audience and casual watchers = A 1977 Cadillac Eldorado

Not all of BW was bad. you had the duckletts who were funny, you did have meowth go onto the good side for a little bit. there were the moments with the COTDs that made you want to scream and shout especially N ending the Mother-in-law of all battles but not the entiretywas bad. such as Excadrill and the boat incicdent in DA

 

[PockyAddict]

What happened? Good ideas, bad executions.

This is basically it. I agree with this and a lot of other. I think that the Gen's shortness had a lot to do with the rushed pace of the later anime. Due to black 2 and white 2 being released.

People like to say earthquakes, but that can't be true.

I also don't think the earthquake is the case either, considering they most likely prob were done and were working on a bunch of episodes for prob (it takes a long time to write,storyboard, animate and voice cartoons) either the next 6 months. And team plasma don't make appearances in other episodes either.

 

[Darth Darkrai]

I think as some people here have said"It Is A Really Bd Train Wreck" which I kind of agree with and not all of the Episodes this Saga have been great and Most of them to Me have Greatin my Own Opinion.

 

[Jukain]

I no longer think it's any use to try to figure out why things happened the way they did. They just did. I really want to just forget all of this happened, but if I've learned from internet critics, it's that you must remember the bad so that the good will be worth that much more. This is definitely a very good portrait of everything that is wrong about the anime and has ever been wrong about the anime. It even adds a new wrinkle in the form of all the nonsense that is the colossal retcons they did. I know I brush off the original saga since it was supposed to be a comedy, but as a comedy, I would prefer the original saga to BW if that was their intention. I'd be more convinced if their intention was mostly happy faffing about, which while it would please the kiddies, it does nothing otherwise. Technically, that should make it worse, but the battles have improved since the original saga, so I had to give it that. This WAS the reason I made DA the absolute worst since it does nothing whatsoever other than waste time. Sorry for the rant, but this is what I'm going to use BW for now. A perfect portrait of everything that has and can go wrong.

 

[Magma Bomb]

The earthquake didn't ruin everything and is not the sole factor to blame on the trainwreck that spoiled Best Wishes. While it was the catalyst for postponing the original the two-parter, most of the blame is thanks to the ridiculously bad ideas the staff had after the incident in order to continue the plot they originaly had intended to.
I understand the decision of never airing the original two-parter, to be fair I would have done the same in their place and can't really blame them for that. However, there is no justification for scrapping the B1/W1 versions of Team Plasma from the anime altogether, they could have perfectly make another build-up for a future encounter with Team Plasma and go from there. Instead, they decided to completely ignore their existence and proceed with a series of random TR big operations, effetivelly replacing them as villains of the fifth generation until a sequel was released.
I seriously can't comprehend their "lets remove X element from the anime forever because Y happened that day" modus operandi sometimes. It is not like the colateral damage was an essential part of the plot, they could've perfectly redo the two-parter with less destruction to make it easier for the audience. But no, they were scrapped and the Team Plasma we got was the sequel version, as a rushed afterthought after the league, and only because a sequel was released and they needed padding. Without the storyline from the first installment N ends up as a mostly normal person and Plasma a bunch of generic brutes plotting world domination and the original material had much more potential than that.
Add to this the removal of Zekrom and Kyurem from the arc, the old Team Plasma being non-existent, and the anticlimatic final showdown Episode N got and you have one the most wasted story arcs ever. The only redeeming factor is Colress' performance, but that alone doesn't save it. This is the main plot of the fifth generation butchered and thrown into a trash can because of a bunch of bad decisions coming from the anime staff.
Of course, it doesn't harm Ash's usual badge and league quests in any way, but everyone knows it is just the excuse plot of the games as TvTropes would say and I care about what happens in-between this stuff. Then we have the rivals, the sheer amount of competitors Ash had this generation seriously weakened their credibility since the writers didn't have time to develop all rivals leaving most of them wasted, underdeveloped and sometimes unfinished.
Best Wishes had a huge potential, it seems a great idea in the paper, but they didn't know how to execute it and an unfortunate incident coupled with a bunch of bad writing and decisions turned it into an ever-growing snowball rolling downhill.

 

[YamiiDenryuu]

The sequels happened. Gamefreak has admitted that they only decided to make B2W2 a continuation of BW's story rather than a rehash about three or four months before the games launched. Given that episodes start production about six months before being aired and are in planning for who knows how long before that, the anime producers would've been well underway with the first arc of the BW anime, the one that leads up to Plasma's debut. They probably had just enough time to tweak the ending so Plasma lost and went away for a while so they could rewrite their later plots to account for the sequels. Hence the large block of filler in what is otherwise a fairly fast-paced series.

... And then the earthquake happened and probably screwed up whatever future plans they had at that point. Thus BW had to be rewritten twice. Obviously this saga is cursed. There's no way of telling if Plasma was supposed to appear again later on in the main saga or if they were pushed to after the league as a purely B2W2-based plot, since that filler chunk fortuitously gave the anime team just enough time to redo everything starting with about the Nimbasa gym episodes.

That's my theory, anyway.

 

[Hidden Mew]

What happened? Good ideas, bad executions.

I think that this mainly sums up BW as whole for me pretty well. It had a lot of good/decent ideas, but most of them suffered from such terrible executions, which is rather a shame. With just a few changes here and there, BW could have been so much better than it actually turned out. It does have some good episodes and elements still within it, but for me, the bad/problematic aspects of the series outnumbers the good.

I also really doubt that the earthquake affected their plans with Team Plasma. There wasn't any indication that Team Plasma was going to play a big role in the series. They didn't appear or were mentioned in the batch of episodes shortly after the two-parter was suppose to air, so it seems pretty unlikely that they were going to appear any time soon after that two-parter was suppose to air. If anything, the sequels affected them appearing earlier since making those games sequels was a last minute decision and making a Neo-Team Plasma ruined the chances of having regular Team Plasma appearing, especially when a time gap would have been necessary to have Neo Team Plasma appearing.

 

[Codface]

BW was a mess everyone hated some part of it. From Ashs brain fart and regression, two companions with no set goal, only unova pokemon featured bar pika/meowth, arc being terribly paced, the league being awful, terrible rival, inconsistant personality of team rocket, lack of pokemon development, Iris and her such a kid chanting and two very average movies.

Ofc it had some good bits. Episode N works as did the meloetta story line. The subway Team Rocket episodes were ok too.