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Britain Makes Its Bed

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Mozz

Golden Wang of Justice
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1700988,00.html

AN ISLAMIC scholar who loathes Western values is advocating “physical jihad” in the Yorkshire home town of one of the London suicide bombers.

While Tony Blair and leaders of Britain’s Muslims were condemning extremism at their Downing Street summit, Mufti Zubair Dudha explained why British foreign policy led directly to the 7/7 atrocities. Mr Dudha, 29, teaches primary school children, teenagers and young adults at his Islamic Tarbiyah academy in Dewsbury.

He condemned the London atrocities and signed the Sunni Muslim fatwa against suicide bombings, but he is also an advocate of jihad. In his foreword to a 1996 translation of a pamphlet by one of his mentors, entitled Jihaad, Mr Dudha wrote: “Today many of us are misled into believing that in our times jihad of the sword is not warranted. Most definitely physical jihad is, and will be needed to a large extent.”

Later he added: “Besides the jihad of the pen and tongue, the Muslim ummah [nation] cannot be exempted from physical jihad. No learned person and no true Muslim can deny the benefits, fruits and blessings of physical jihad for the course of Allah.” One chapter title in the book is: “Preparing for Jihad and obtaining warfare equipment is also compulsory.”

Writings such as these could be declared illegal under the Government’s plans to introduce laws against glorifying or indirectly inciting terrorism. For now they remain legal.


Sir Ian Blair, the Metropolitan Police commissioner, said yesterday that his force has had 19 attempts to prosecute seven “preachers of hate” for incitement to racial hatred rejected by prosecution lawyers.

At his academy in Dewsbury,the town where the Edgware Road bomber Mohammad Sidique Khan lived, the softly-spoken mufti trains young minds to reject Western culture and follow Sharia law. Mr Dudha, who was born in Dewsbury, said that he understood the anger of young Muslims. His mission is “about channelling that anger in the right manner . . . controlling it and giving it the correct guidance”.

He told The Times that he was no extremist and that suicide bombings were wrong, yet his published writings repeatedly reveal contempt for the society in which he and his students live.

Recent police inquiries into the background of the suicide bombers have focused on the Iqra learning centre, a small Islamic bookstore in the Beeston area of Leeds. It is known to have been a regular meeting place for two of the bombers, Khan and Shehzad Tanweer, while Naveed Fiaz, arrested last Tuesday in connection with the London attacks, often worked at the shop. Locals allege that videos and DVDs sold at Iqra preached hatred of the West, showed graphic images of anti-Muslim violence and were used as a way of recruiting young Islamic radicals.

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France has much tougher laws about inciting terror and they actually deal with these people. England just smiles and nods.
 
I'm all for free speech but I call that sreaming fire in a crowded theatre. Terror is never warranted or justified.

In fact the true Jihad has strict rules AGAINST terrorism.
In Jihad you cannot
Kill Women
Kill Children
Kill a Man without his sward (or gun now-a-days)
Destroy Green Plants
Destroy Buildings

So what these people are calling for is in fact an abomination according to their own scared texts.

Even so. This is out of line. You don't like someone's policies, fine. You vote, you voice your opinion. You don't call for violence.
 
The Big Al said:
I'm all for free speech but I call that sreaming fire in a crowded theatre. Terror is never warranted or justified.

In fact the true Jihad has strict rules AGAINST terrorism.
In Jihad you cannot
Kill Women
Kill Children
Kill a Man without his sward (or gun now-a-days)
Destroy Green Plants
Destroy Buildings

So what these people are calling for is in fact an abomination according to their own scared texts.

Do you have any citations to back this up?
 
I've heard about this story. But in contract, a day or so following these attacks, an Islamic organization in California spoke up and condemned the attacks and the terrorists.

There are always going to be idiots like this. Remember the guy in New York? I think he was an imam who shuttled money to terrorist groups prior to and maybe even after 9/11.

And let's not forget all the IRA groups wanting Britains dead, and all the redneck hillbillies wanting the US government destroyed. People come messed up in all shapes and sizes.

I'm ALL for illegalizing obvious hate/terrorism speeches. But let's make sure it stops there. There's nothing wrong with speaking against your government. It's when you seek violence against it or its peoples that it becomes a problem.
 
Mozz said:
Do you have any citations to back this up?
I saw it on a special shortly after 9/11. They were discussing the five pillars and how the Jihad fit in. I don't know where to find and I don't read Arabic so sadly no.
 
Oh come on... I'm sure you could scan some sites for Koran quotes... Right next to the ones that urge the killing of all infidels =D
 
Unfortunately these bombing incidents are still gonna encourage everyone to vote the BNP, or at least so the BNP think. That's why they're all now saying "We were right all along! "Get Islam out!" etc. 500 race attacks have now occured in Britain since the terrorist bombings two weeks ago, Leeds and those other parts of Yorkshire have some strong BNP support. Worrying.
 
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This just makes me wonder why they don't do more security measures specifically against Muslims. It's not anything against Muslims, it's just the circumstances. I mean, in the last decade, almost all terrorism attacks are perputrated by Muslims. Don't waste our times at the airport scanning an 80-year old white woman when an Arab guy in a jacket is standing behind her.
 
Because it's politically incorrect.

It's worth another 9/11 that we don't offend those backwards fucks.

EDIT: A simply amazing piece that is perfect for the times...

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“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.”

—Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
 
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No, the reason you don't focus on one group is so the others don't fuck you from behind. We've TRIED focusing on one at a time. After the 80s, we focused on the Middle East. Then Waco happened. Then the OKC bombing. Then Pearl Ridge (or...whatever Ridge it was). So THEN we focused on the domestic terrorists (with SO much success I need not even mention it). And then 9/11 happened. Now we're starting to focus on the Middle East again. And when we least expect it...the Danes are going to shove a nuke in our faces. Or something more realistic, like North Korea. Or China (although considering how valuable we are to their economy, that's not REALLY a likely option).

The fact is that if you don't search the 80 year old woman, then she'll be the one packing the uzi. Or, again, something more realistic.

Screw the idiots who say we shouldn't focus on the Middle Eastern guys because it's "racial profiling". We shouldn't focus on them BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY THREAT. Look at WWII. It wasn't the Germans who attacked us. It was the Japanese. Granted there's logic behind them doing it, but considering how head-strong Germany was, they seem to have been, and were, the larger threat. Look at the end of the 19th, beginning of the 20th centuries. We figured any threat to us would come from Europe...then comes Pancho Villa to rape and pillage. And look at THIS WEEK. On what border to we find a drug tunnel? Logic says Mexico, but it was CANADA.
 
Not to mention you are condemning a people because of their radicals. Not everyone who prasies Allah wants to kill us. However, if we say "every A-rab is evil and must be killed", it's just begging for more terrorists. We're having trouble with the ones we have right now.

And what about the Rudolfs of this world. You know the guy who blew up the Atlanta Olympics and Abortion Hospitals. Should we profile White Christians too?
 
I think we kinda do profile white Christians. Or at least I do. Well...white SOUTHERN Christians. Baptists to be specific. Those guys bug me. I think THEY'RE all terrorists.
 
What I'm asking is where do we stop? We've given the terrorists what they desired, we're scared. We scared to the point that we're letting our fear cloud our judgement. An innocent man is the morge because of fear. The Patriot Act is on the fast track to being extended. We're turning in on ourselves. Instead going those backward Muslims or those radical Baptists, we should be seriously thinking about how we're going to fight our fear.

FDR said it best. "There's nothing to fear but fear itself." Right now, I'm afraid of what fear is doing us.
 
EXACTLY. We're acting too much on emotion. We did that in Afghanistan and look...we got NOTHING from it. Sure we busted up a major terrorist training camp but that's like taking a bucket of water out of the ocean. Ok, I'll be nice: a lake.

And the Bush administration acted on emotion when going into Iraq. What did we get from that? Now we have TWO most wanted terrorists. SO WHAT if Hussein's out of power? Is it worth taking out a mouse only to get a rat? If we could look at this thing and handle it logically instead of emotionally, we could have bin Laden. We could even have Hussein WITHOUT Al Zarqawi. Hell, we might have gotten Iran out of the deal.

We can't hide our heads in the sand, but we also can't go rushing in with guns blazing. There IS a middle ground, and we have to find it if we TRULY hope to put ANY sort of dent in the lake known as Terrorism.
 
The Big Al said:
Not to mention you are condemning a people because of their radicals. Not everyone who prasies Allah wants to kill us. However, if we say "every A-rab is evil and must be killed", it's just begging for more terrorists. We're having trouble with the ones we have right now.

And what about the Rudolfs of this world. You know the guy who blew up the Atlanta Olympics and Abortion Hospitals. Should we profile White Christians too?

Perhaps I shouldn't have used my metaphor like that. What I mean is that we need to not just spend time sending people through metal detectors-we need to concentrate on Muslims. The sporadic attacks by domestic crazies are few and far between compared to the copious amount of attacks done by Muslim terrorists.
 
Girafarig_Magcargo said:
Perhaps I shouldn't have used my metaphor like that. What I mean is that we need to not just spend time sending people through metal detectors-we need to concentrate on Muslims. The sporadic attacks by domestic crazies are few and far between compared to the copious amount of attacks done by Muslim terrorists.

...Outside of the Middle East (where, GASP, a very large population of Muslims exist), the attacks done by Muslims are as sporadic as any other group. In fact, on the British Isles, the NRA are responsible for COUNTLESS more terrorist attacks than Muslims.

In the US, they're only responsible for the #1 terrorist attack. #2 goes to Americans (well...OFFICIALLY, although John Doe #2 was undeniably Middle Eastern and from there we're entering conspiracy country, so I'll drop it). The other WTC bombing was equivacol to Waco. Then remember the multiple snipers we've had in America in past 5 years? They were all American, and probably not Muslim. Although I'm sure that's debatable.

Don't group people because of what a few do. If I did that, I would hate everyone around me.
 
The muslims have engaged in larger-scale attacks, and far more high-profile attacks (ie, that hogged up all the newspapers), but they have not performed more attacks in the west per se.

(Israel, which is a special situation, does not count)
 
GrnMarvl13 said:
...Outside of the Middle East (where, GASP, a very large population of Muslims exist), the attacks done by Muslims are as sporadic as any other group. In fact, on the British Isles, the NRA are responsible for COUNTLESS more terrorist attacks than Muslims.

In the US, they're only responsible for the #1 terrorist attack. #2 goes to Americans (well...OFFICIALLY, although John Doe #2 was undeniably Middle Eastern and from there we're entering conspiracy country, so I'll drop it). The other WTC bombing was equivacol to Waco. Then remember the multiple snipers we've had in America in past 5 years? They were all American, and probably not Muslim. Although I'm sure that's debatable.

Don't group people because of what a few do. If I did that, I would hate everyone around me.

On the record, one of the Beltway snipers was Muslim, but that's irrelevant.

Secondly, I think you're referring to the IRA, and they haven't done anything in over 5 years. The Real IRA, which is the only group that still advocates violence, has completely atrophied. The ETA has not done anything major in a few years. The vast majority of terrorist attacks in the last couple of years were purpotrated by Muslim terrorists.
 
Vast majority? In the United States in the past five years there has been ONE muslim terrorist attack.

That's not a VAST MAJORITY by any stretch of the imagination. EVEN if you stretch terrorism awfully thin to fit the Beltway Sniper in, it takes a lot of imagination to make that "two terrorist attacks". And certainly if you stretch to include the Sniper, then all those school shooting should be included in "non-muslim terrorism, for a start. Arguably, all the murders in the United States should, at that (that's, what, 15 000 murders a year? Even discounting serial killers and mass murderers, that's still a lot more than "two").
 
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