Brock and Professor Ivy

[Linkpre]

This can be locked after a answer.

I was wondering, does anyone know all the episodes where Brock did his "that name" reaction to hearing Professor Ivy's name. I remember thinking it was a funny little joke and was surprised to find out it continued in Johto when I was watching it this past summer.

I tried looking on Bulbapedia, but I couldn't find anything.

 

[Cybersai]

I think Brock only actually reacted that way in the last two eps of Orange Islands.

I don't think Prof. Ivy was ever brought up in any of Johto's eps, so we only saw that "quirk" for a grand total of 2 episodes. Brock did mention Ivy in Movie 7, but I believe it was a dub added line.

 

[Linkpre]

That's weird. I could of sworn I remember him doing that in a few Johto episodes. I think I even remember it happening one time in a early Hoenn episode.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

 

[Cybersai]

Well maybe I'm wrong, but I don't ever remember Brock saying, "That name!" in any ep after Orange.

 

[PockyAddict]

I think Brock only actually reacted that way in the last two eps of Orange Islands.

I don't think Prof. Ivy was ever brought up in any of Johto's eps, so we only saw that "quirk" for a grand total of 2 episodes. Brock did mention Ivy in Movie 7, but I believe it was a dub added line.

It is a dub added Line, he did not professor Ivy in the original.

 

[domesticshorthair]

Only in the last two ep of the Orange Islands

 

[dragonite24]

After all those years of Brock,we STILL do not know what happened.


*sigh*

dropped plotlines...

 

[MetaRobo]

It's pretty strongly implied that they had romantic tension between them, so I tend to think Brock did something incredibly stupid like try to make a move on her at a bad time. For the wild of imagination, it could even be something dirty, hence why they won't show it.

For me, the implications are enough.

 

[Cybersai]

After all those years of Brock,we STILL do not know what happened.


*sigh*

dropped plotlines...

Its not a dropped plotline at all. Both Meowth and Misty guess exactly what happened in the same episode. Brock did something embarrassing in front of Ivy, or she dumped him like Misty put it, and that's that.

Please, this isn't a screw-up ala GS ball proportions. The writers didn't start with the crazy plotholes until Johto started, Orange Islands was still relatively "neatly-knit."

 

[domesticshorthair]

It's pretty strongly implied that they had romantic tension between them, so I tend to think Brock did something incredibly stupid like try to make a move on her at a bad time. For the wild of imagination, it could even be something dirty, hence why they won't show it.

That's what I've always thought, after all, he took it pretty hard. Still, it would have been nice to know. I'm just glad he hasn't stopped trying to get girls to go out with him. Hmm, although maybe that's why he was pretty nervous with Temacu. Probably didn't want to make the same mistake? But she was hitting on him...oh, well, whatever happened with Ivy, we'll never know. Just like we'll never know what he did while he was absent in The Water Flowers of Cerulean City.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

Its not a dropped plotline at all. Both Meowth and Misty guess exactly what happened in the same episode. Brock did something embarrassing in front of Ivy, or she dumped him like Misty put it, and that's that.

Please, this isn't a screw-up ala GS ball proportions. The writers didn't start with the crazy plotholes until Johto started, Orange Islands was still relatively "neatly-knit."

For someone correcting someone on plot identification, you'd think you'd have your own in line.

The GS Ball is not a plot hole, it's simply an unfinished one. A plot hole is when a plot piece contradicts logic previously established in the plot. It's a matter of continuity. The GS Ball is not that. While the fans may know that the original intent was to release Celebi, the anime never established that.

And when previously asked what other "plot holes" Johto had, I don't recall you responding with any. So what exactly are they?

 

[Cybersai]

And when previously asked what other "plot holes" Johto had, I don't recall you responding with any. So what exactly are they?

Aside from the GS ball, Johto promised tons of things and failed to deliver them:

- Ash promised Totodile it would evolve in "Ring Masters" when it showed it that Feraligatr, and it never happened. He even let Totodile watch the sumo match, and then Totodile doesn't go through any development the rest of the arc.

- In one of the Larvitar eps, I can't remember which, Ash contemplates evolving Cyndaquil to make it grow stronger, since at that point Ash finally got it in his skull that evolved Pokemon tend to get stronger. However, by the end of the ep Ash abandons the idea and doesn't touch on it again.

- Brock gets a Heavy ball from Kurt that he never uses. What was the point of Brock getting so hyped up about a Heavy ball and the writers not using it?

- Togepi's metronome powers are never discovered by Misty, which is bizarre, so Togepi's plotline essentially is badly handled. AG sort of fixes this by the writers finally evolving Togepi and moving on.

- In the Gligarman episode, Gligarman gives Brock a whistle for them to call him when they get in trouble. This is never used again.

- Casey started off seeming like she would be a secondary rival this arc after Gary, but as time goes on she just fizzles out. There's a reason most people tend to forget Ash actually did have a female rival at one point, she was just so badly handled that people tend to forget about her.

- In the Johto league, we discover via flashbacks that Ash and Gary had a childhood together. Yet in the first ep in Kanto, Ash and Gary act as if they never met each other. Talk about a retcon here.

- In the Todd arc when he wants to take a picture of Articuno, Ash acts as if he never saw one before and doesn't think it exists. This is a plothole because as the show goes on, Ash remembers the legendary Pokemon he sees in movies when they re-appear in episodes.


I'm pretty sure that's it, unless I'm forgetting a few things.

 

[Trainer'sInsomnia]

Aside from the GS ball, Johto promised tons of things and failed to deliver them:

- Ash promised Totodile it would evolve in "Ring Masters" when it showed it that Feraligatr, and it never happened. He even let Totodile watch the sumo match, and then Totodile doesn't go through any development the rest of the arc.

- In one of the Larvitar eps, I can't remember which, Ash contemplates evolving Cyndaquil to make it grow stronger, since at that point Ash finally got it in his skull that evolved Pokemon tend to get stronger. However, by the end of the ep Ash abandons the idea and doesn't touch on it again.

- Brock gets a Heavy ball from Kurt that he never uses. What was the point of Brock getting so hyped up about a Heavy ball and the writers not using it?

- Togepi's metronome powers are never discovered by Misty, which is bizarre, so Togepi's plotline essentially is badly handled. AG sort of fixes this by the writers finally evolving Togepi and moving on.

- In the Gligarman episode, Gligarman gives Brock a whistle for them to call him when they get in trouble. This is never used again.

- Casey started off seeming like she would be a secondary rival this arc after Gary, but as time goes on she just fizzles out. There's a reason most people tend to forget Ash actually did have a female rival at one point, she was just so badly handled that people tend to forget about her.

- In the Johto league, we discover via flashbacks that Ash and Gary had a childhood together. Yet in the first ep in Kanto, Ash and Gary act as if they never met each other. Talk about a retcon here.

- In the Todd arc when he wants to take a picture of Articuno, Ash acts as if he never saw one before and doesn't think it exists. This is a plothole because as the show goes on, Ash remembers the legendary Pokemon he sees in movies when they re-appear in episodes.


I'm pretty sure that's it, unless I'm forgetting a few things.

Of those things you mentioned, only the last 2 examples were actual plot holes. None of the other things contradict continuity or logic established prior in the show. The promises of evolution are merely an example of an inexperienced trainer's dreams, no different from Ash's promise to capture every Spearow at the start of his journey. So what if Brock never used the items that were given to him. Trainers are not required to use every item; he used the fast ball he got to catch Pineco, so it's not like all gifts from Kurt were duds. And Togepi? While I agree her plot was useless and crappy, "lousy handling" is in no way a plot hole. And Casey was never established to be an on-going rival. A rival, but there were no promises that she'd even make it to the league. For all we know, Casey failed on her journey. Not a plot hole.

And as for the Ash and Gary thing, Johto wasn't the only time the flashbacks were shown (see the Camerupt episode in AG), so they decided to turn that story around all together for the sake of giving more meaning and longevity to their rivalry.

 

[Joey]

- In the Gligarman episode, Gligarman gives Brock a whistle for them to call him when they get in trouble. This is never used again.

To be fair, would you actually call Gligarman if you were in trouble? :lol:

 

[PDL]

And Casey was never established to be an on-going rival. A rival, but there were no promises that she'd even make it to the league. For all we know, Casey failed on her journey. Not a plot hole.

Casey was never established as a long-term rival, but it *was* established that Pokémon training only played second fiddle to her first love: baseball.

Also, I'd like to add that the canon and the details surrounding it are prone to being changed in the long term. Team Rocket's backstories on how they met gets changed alot, perhaps the same holds true for the heroes as well. Such as the whole broken pokéball backstory added at the last possible time between Ash and Gary in Jotho.

As for Brock and Ivy, my guess is that it'll never be revealed because it was a "flimsy" way for Brock to return and remain with Ash forever more. It solidified his running gag that all his advances on women will end in failure. Even if he were to "succeed", he'll end up loosing somehow.

I'm willing to bet that writers left the reasons completely ambigious so that the fans will wrack their brains out over it. Heck, perhaps they've probably forgotten all about it themselves.

 

[Cybersai]

None of the other things contradict continuity or logic established prior in the show.

Maybe, but I noticed after Johto the writers stopped doing this. When things get foreshadowed now, they actually tend to happen with few exceptions. I can't think of too many abandoned plotlines from Hoenn, Battle Frontier or DP, or not any that are glaringly obvious, at any rate.

Same reason there's no released Pokemon from Ash anymore, no broken promises with evolutions, and a lot of the trainer items they get tend to be used for something later on. And on the same note, a lot of the rivals we meet for more than one ep we're guarenteed to meet again at the leagues.

So what if Brock never used the items that were given to him.

In the context of this show, giving a main character a Pokeball item, having Ash and Misty use their lure balls, but not using Brock's was lame. I remember all throughout Johto I kept wondering what new Pokemon Brock was going to capture with his Heavy Ball...and it never happened. Let me ask you, back when that ep aired didn't you think his Heavy Ball would be used for something?

And Casey was never established to be an on-going rival. A rival, but there were no promises that she'd even make it to the league. For all we know, Casey failed on her journey. Not a plot hole.

Maybe so, but it didn't seem like for her first two appearances that it was going to happen. They even had the whole Chikorita/Bayleef parallel with Ash, and how Casey's grass starter evolved faster than Ash's did.

I would have liked to see Ash battle Casey in the league, but whatever. Now in retrospect Casey's entire character feels pointless, when she could have been a fairly decent sideplot in the league.

 

[Pokemaster Justin]

Didn't someone actually write on here that one of the main writers left after the Orange Islands too? Or the main director got sick or something? There is a severe drop in quality from OI onward...wait let me correct that, Johto the begining was pretty okay.

Although man Johto gave us almost nothing in terms of character development.

 

[Cybersai]

Johto was almost anti-character development.

Ash was pretty much the same and Misty lost her personality. It was refreshing to see Brock back only because he wasn't there in Orange.

They did do a good job with the end of the Ash/Gary rivalry at least, even though he should have appeared a lot more than in only 3 eps before the league that saga. :/

 

[pokemon fan 132]

To Linkpre:As far as i know the only episodes when Brock had that reaction hearing professor Ivys name was in last two episodes of Orange:"Tents Situation" and "Rivalry Revival",where Misty and Meowth indirectly pretty much explained the whole situation with prof.Ivy.

and Misty lost her personality.

I find it interesting how some people like to claime how Misty "lost her personality in Johto" when infact she didnt.She just became more calm and mature keeping her temper under better control.Considering how she was taking care of Togepi being like his mother it wasnt surprising that she will be more calm.She was still showing her temper during Johto aswell,it just wasnt so often like it used to be in previous seasons.

By that logic,we could also say how May "lost her personality" in Battle Frointer(of course she didnt,im just giving example how absurd this logic is)who at start didnt liked pokemon,later ending liking them developing into more mature and responsible person.

One more thing,there was character development in Johto aswell.For example following episodes "For Crying Out Loud" and "Heartbreak of Brock" pretty much counters the whole argument how this saga didnt provide any character development.

 

[ShinyAeon]

Please, this isn't a screw-up ala GS ball proportions. The writers didn't start with the crazy plotholes until Johto started, Orange Islands was still relatively "neatly-knit."

Agreed.

Its not a dropped plotline at all.

Also agreed (actually, it's a "Noodle Incident", something that remains funnier/more interesting because it is never explained).

Both Meowth and Misty guess exactly what happened in the same episode. Brock did something embarrassing in front of Ivy, or she dumped him like Misty put it, and that's that.

Whoah, there, Silver, slow down.

Misty guessed one thing: "She must have rejected him. This ALWAYS happens."

Meowth guessed another: "I'll bet you did something real embarrassing in front of Professor Ivy."

Both are valid guesses, but that's ALL they are. They're not two halves of one coherent theory, nor are they mutally exclusive; they're two separate guesses at two different times with no reference to each other.

Brock reacts to neither suggestion in such a way to indicate their accuracy. He doesn't even hear Misty's guess (he's already in the Blue Zone), and when Meowth is speaking, his reaction comes after Ivy's name is mentioned, (which is the consistent trigger), not after "embarrassing."

In short, while they're not bad as working theories, neither Misty nor Meowth's guesses are confirmed. There's nothing "that's that" about it.

Granted, I'm working off the dub here. Minute analysis of the original will have to come from a native speaker of Japanese. (For instance, I've always wondered about the background sound during Brock's first "fit," the wooden clicking that sounds so ominous to my American ears. I suspect it's some kabuki-type sound effect, and I'd dearly like to know what the emotional connotation is to Japanese viewers - is the sound there supposed to be ominous? Comical? So over-the-top ominous that the implied result is comical? Something totally different?)

But clearly there's nothing settled or final about the issue in either version (or I don't doubt we'd have had it pounded into our poor dub-dependent consciousnesses already by those more knowledgeable). What happened with Brock and Professor Ivy is still a mystery, and probably meant to remain so.

In short, it seems it's Ash (of all people) who got it most right: "I guess we'll never know what really happened."