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Can the Pokemon world exist?

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MattW

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When I pose that question I don't mean the physical reality of the Pokemon World. I refer to the idea of the Pokemon world.

Can an objective Pokemon canon exist, that can be conceptualized outside the mediums of anime, video game, and manga which necessarily taint or distort that concept due to the nature of these medium?

For example. What does it mean to be a trainer? From what I understand of the manga, or at least one series of the manga, Team Rocket is a constant antagonizing force, Gym Leaders may be corrupt, and being a trainer is often not so much fun and games, it's a serious way of life. In the anime, the life of a trainer seems to me one of self-discovery, adventure, and fellowship.

Now, at this point you may say that these mediums must necessarily be completely separate, then. But does it really have to be the case? Can't we attempt to envision an objective Pokemon world that isn't unrealistic, that provides a stable framework for the description of a consistent society? We would necessarily have to isolate and remove irregular elements from the mediums; for instance, there's no reason that battles would be turn-based in an objective Pokemon world as they are in the video games, and the idea that Team Rocket can blast off and become winking stars in the distance yet still survive for the next anime episode is clearly an artistic element.

I really, really wish I still had those old files, because I wrote several pages describing what I perceived as the culture, economy, and science of the Pokemon world. But, does anyone else have any feelings like mine?

Edit: Maybe I should have posted in the Pokemon Science forum, I'm not sure. Many fields are considered sciences, but physics/chemistry is what I saw as a possible focus there, and I didn't want to post inappropriately.
 
I think if Pokemon were real, we'd have major problems. Governments would have to severely restrict who trains them, as technically, they can be used as weapons. Imagine a world where al Qaida has armies of high-level, physics-defying monsters on its side.
 
I highly doubt becoming a trainer would be much easier than obtaining a permit to carry a fire arm. I also doubt anyone younger than 13 coud become a trainer, perhaps even higher like 16.
 
Neither would be Poke Balls (despite what the games do). You'd need a permit to purchase them.
 
Well, there's plenty of people who aren't organized trainers who manage to have pokémon, and I think the same thing would happen in the real world. It'd be like having a pet. Think of it like this--a dog can be taught to kill. It can also be taught to fetch a stick. Which do most people do?
 
As you observed yourself, Matt, the first rule in tackling a "real" Pokémon World is to admit that NONE of the source is an absolute. The anime is a lighthearted take on what a trainer journey is; it's no more accurate than the "Mighty Ducks" movie series is an accurate representation of what competitive hockey is like. They get many of the basics, but they take heavy liberties, too. Throw in the anime laws of physics ("TEAM ROCKET BLASTING OFF AGAIN..."), and you have a source that you need to cast some healthy doubt on.

The same can be said of the magas, of course; not only are they subject to suspicious takes on the laws of physics, as with other mangas, but they also have their own plot, not too likely to be an accurate representation of what life as a trainer is like, any more than, say, your average James Bond represent what life as a spy is. The menace represented by Team Rocket (and/or is also undoubtedly exagerated : while there are "evil" mercnaries out there, and there were soviets, their attempts to "hurt" the Rest of the World are wildly exxagerated in the various Bond movies.

The games are much the same as either of these : exagerating some aspect, downplaying others for the sake of creating a game. And of course, they have their own set of rules adopted to suit the game environment, such as turn-based battling, stats (all sorts of stats), and even types (at least to the extent of a rigid, hard-coded system as the games have it where all "Type X" attack are extremely effective (by the same multiplier!) against "type Y" opponents". ThatS' without considering the fact that elemental effects might vary depending on the exact body part being hit (ie, "Aim for the horn!").

Ultimately I think the best way to look at these sources (if we play from the angle of "The pokémon world is real") is to look at them as historical fictions. I say historical, because it's obvious from the varying treatment given to some figure (Lance and some other gym leaders come to mind; compare anime and Special) that they are :

-Controversial enough figures that no one complains too loudly about either the anime OR "special" interpretation, or at least, that if they do, an equally sized group on the other side boo these complaints down.

-Likely dead, as no one is slapping libel lawsuits at the "fictions" in questions. (Obviously the E4 and friends do not *admit* to the "evil" interpretation being true, else they would not be controversial figures (see above).

Hence my conclusion that we'd best take the various sources as historical fictions : written some time after what little fact they're based on (I doubt Team Rocket ever took over Silph, at least in a militant fashion; and I also doubt that Ash Ketchum (or "Red") ever single-handedly defeated the Team).

They'd have MOST of the basics - city names, the important people (GLs, E4s, etc) down right as far as names and position go; their personalities would be based on what is known of them (though sometime twisting things around for the needs of the story).

The main characters, on the other hand, would not be so accurately represented. Most likely there WAS an Ash Ketchum alive in that frame of time and he achieved some measure of fame (or else he is a mythical figure who allegedly lived in that time; most likely the former). His importance, however, is almost certainly vastly overstated by the various movies, anime episodes, manga, games, etc. A famous trainer is something he likely *was*; a several-times-over-savior-of-the-world (hell, even saving the world *once*, or defeating Team Rocket) is not *QUITE* so likely. Some of the more important support character may also be in the same case (though these support character did NOT necessarily meet the main character, ever; they could even have lived several years apart).

Finally, the one-shot characters (and possibly some of the repeating characters) are wholly fictional figures who exists only to serve the plot (or lack of thereof).

This framework is mostly based on that found on such historical novels as Teh Three Muskeeters : there, you have major historical figures in the politically important role (the king, queen, cardinal are all real people). You have historical figure whose role is VASTLY overstated and whose adventure in the story are partly if not wholly fictional serving as main characters (D'Artagnan, as a case in point), and fictional figures (Athos, Porthos and Aramis) all working together.
 
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Even in some series there can be another series within it. A well-known example of this is James' cards on the show. The cards reveal Giovanni to be the leader of Team Rocket, something probably not publically known. While it's probably rumored about, such a thing could lead to a lawsuit.
 
Fanfiction has tried to touch this realm for as long as Pokemon fanfiction has existed, or at least I think so. I think I would sadly have to agree with the whole limiting pokemon training to a certain age, as it would have to include a level of responsibility. The age at which one can be trusted to such things is a debate in itself, though, but I would imagine it is somewhere in the teens. Sadly, not everyone is inclined to follow the rules and I'm sure that even then, there would be those that would still use pokemon for death, destruction, and whatnot. What I'm more interested in is the education system of said world. In all pokemon media that I'm aware of, school is apparently ditched for the adventure and life lessons that pokemon training offers. What about those that simply don't want to become a trainer, coordinator, or breeder? There has to be the people that run the businesses, government, and other things like that. (This realm, I think, would also include Pokemon Professors) Would that make school simply an option? I do not condone this apparent lack of concern for education, but you only need common sense to train pokemon. Also, I am very concerned for the danger in training certain pokemon. They can't be feral beasts, because then they would surely kill us all and take over the world themselves. They have to have some level of sentience, enough to make them tamable to a certain degree. I think I would be one of those people that just wants a pokemon as a sort of pet or best friend. I imagine breeding would be a lot more difficult, too, but there would still be those interested in that, either for shows or for battling. I think it would be something like what those people go through for dog and cat shows. It would be an interesting world, though, considering how many alternative uses that pokemon attacks could have. It would be like having unlimited natural resources. Also, I would think that rare pokemon would be under some form of protection and training of them would be severely limited.
 
Blackjack Gabbiani said:
Even in some series there can be another series within it. A well-known example of this is James' cards on the show. The cards reveal Giovanni to be the leader of Team Rocket, something probably not publically known. While it's probably rumored about, such a thing could lead to a lawsuit.
Click to expand...

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Giovanni was publicly known as TR leader. Many of the mafia leaders names are publicly known, and they get called such in books, newspapers, etc; it's just they almost always manage to keep evidence away from implicating them in any actual *crime*.
 
But given Lance's gung-ho crimefighting persona in the series, if Giovanni's other occupation was publically known, would Lance permit him to serve as GL for as long as he did? (bear in mind we don't know the circumstances that lead to him not being GL any more, but I'm willing to wager that, since it wasn't mentioned, it was put to the public as just a simple retirement)
 
Along the same lines as the others, there would be major flaws in any judicial systems (just as there are in real life.) A place that has a criminal organization in the spotlight, and are in fact known to stand out, clearly shows a slight difference in ethical and moral judgement as well. It pretty much seems that people do what they want. How many times has Ash attacked Team Rocket not because they were doing something, but because they were part of the Team? I think it would pose a major issue in real life, considering that I think people would justify using Pokemon against other humans for reasons that only themselves believe in. And how would one judge if it was right or not? Would someone get more time in jail if they had a Nidoqueen attack instead of a Nidoran?
 
Blackjack Gabbiani said:
But given Lance's gung-ho crimefighting persona in the series, if Giovanni's other occupation was publically known, would Lance permit him to serve as GL for as long as he did? (bear in mind we don't know the circumstances that lead to him not being GL any more, but I'm willing to wager that, since it wasn't mentioned, it was put to the public as just a simple retirement)
Click to expand...

I don't think Lance has the authority, Blackjack.
 
The Pokemon League is not a governing body, merely a very influential trainer's organization, the largest trainer's organization in fact. Man, I really need to find my description of the Pokemon world. If I can't find it in another form somewhere in my filesystem I will have to dig through every inch of my house to find the DVD over Thanksgiving break... People seem to have misconceptions plus set ways of interpreting certain interactions which I believe could be workable in an object Pokemon world, but I can't really provide details until I find that essay I typed up, so, okay, yeah. (This was just a sounding board slash talking point, but I need to be better prepared if I want to convince anyone, of course. x.x ) Maybe I'll just rewrite it... but I hate to waste time, I am already behind in note-taking as it is...
 
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But Lance identifies himself as a "G-man". Presuming the "G" stands for the same thing it does in our world, that means he works for the government.

Also, as the most powerful trainer in two regions (at least as recognized by the League), he would hold some sway when it comes to League rulings.
 
"Some" sway is not the same as "ability to have things the way he wants". He can be influential, but Giovanni is, one would assume, a VERY wealthy person...and wealth has never ceased to be a powerful source of influence.

And working for the government gives him what authority exactly over who's a gym leader? A FBI agent can't just go to a NHL team and say "Your coach is associated with the mafia. Fire him."

The *GESTAPO* could conceivably have done it. So could the KGB. But in a democracy, or any sort of non-heavy-controling-dictatorship?

I doubt it.
 
G-Man? Huh? I don't know what he calls himself, but it's very likely that any irregular self-references are because anime / video games / manga are not all on the same page and one might try to define more than is appropriate to define. If the Pokemon League were a governing body, I think we would know about it very clearly, however...

Edit: YES!!!! Found it! The essay I wrote on this, I mean, where I describe what I perceive as the objective Pokemon world. Would it be okay for me to create another topic and post that content in there for discussion? It's two or three pages, succinctly written I believe. Not my latest draft but better than nothing.
 
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Create as many topics as you want! We have a whole wide forum, we can handle a few more threads, I think ;-)
 
Please note: The thread is from 20 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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