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Captain's Barricades-necessary or no?

Alola

Alola

UltraMysteryDungeon, when?
Forum Moderator Scorbunny Fan Quaxly Fan
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Alola everyone. Wondering how people feel about the usage of captain's barricades in (U)S & (U)M. They seem to be a feature designed to stop players from accessing areas that may potentially be too strong for them. Do you all think they're necessary and establish a kind of order or are a type of glorified hand-holding? Would it hurt the games if say, in either story progression or difficulty, you were able to challenge Totem Lurantis first on Akala, rather than do Water>Fire>Grass in that order?
 
They're entirely designed for handholding and we could do without it. Restricting you to one island at a time is enough, they don't need to make it any more linear than that.
 
The barricades always bothered me a little, because they seemed to imply that either everyone you meet past those barricades have cleared the requisite trial, or that the Trial Guides are paid to stand at the gate 24/7 and check everyone who passes just to prevent a few kids from going to a new area without beating a trial first.

Akala Island is the worst offender because, as far as forcing linear progression, the water Totem is level 20, while the grass Totem is only level 24. That's not a lot of difference between the three, so I don't feel like it would have been too hard to let us choose which one we faced first.
 
No, the game would be vastly improved if they didn't block routes. The islands are so small too and they just make them feel smaller. Anyway, higher level areas are inherently gates, and would teach players a lesson about exploring areas before they can handle them. They can still have linear progression by preventing you from starting trials without completing the previous, without blocking you from the areas around each trial.
 
If we're gonna have handholding anyway, it might as well be the Captain's Barricades. At least it made sense in-universe and made the island challenge feel like a (slightly too) supervised tradition, rather than say, a random dude being like "right now I'm feeling way too constipated to move, so if you don't mind I'm just gonna stay here in your way, conveniently blocking access to routes you might not be strong enough to handle"*

Combined with the more brutal PokeDex entries this generation introduced there is plenty of reason in-universe to prevent kids from wandering into the wilds on their own. Nevermind it doesn't feel like you're ever really leaving civilisation far behind on any of the islands safe for Poni.

From a meta-perspective, they fill kinda restrictive. I mean, if you end up somewhere that's too challenging cause your team isn't strong enough yet, just backtrack and return when you're strong enough.

*Disclaimer: this is not an actual blockage used in-game, but it could very well have been. Srsly, a group of Ruin Maniacs who completely disappear the moment you beat Brawly?
 
i'm not quite sure how the community managed to get such a warped definition of handholding, but no, they're not handholding.

are they necessary? eh. the only one that has an impact on direction is the one on Route 7 and then by virtue of Akala just being Water, Grass, and Fire, picking the order in which you challenge them seems pretty trivial considering that it's just the starter triangle. if it weren't the starter triangle it'd be a bit more interesting to choose i suppose, but then again Game Freak's track record with giving player choices in picking the order of the bosses they face (ie., the bosses are all just the same level) is spotty so....meh.

lore-wise they're the best way the NPC barriers have been done though. much more sensible to explicitly say that you need to clear the trial rather than ~conveniently~ disappear when you clear a story event.
 
I really don’t think they need to block off routes until you beat a certain totem. It would be nice if things were a little less linear and you weren’t forced to go to one area. Another example I can think of also is how we have that boy and his Stoutland blocking off sections of Heahea City, or how Lillie blocks off Malie City when you first get there. I would like to see a Pokemon game that’s less linear really.
 
They railroad the game way too much imo. A blockade I liked were the Psyduck in DPPt; while they prevented you from heading into Celestic Town too early, you were still free to either head east into Veilstone, or go south from Hearthome to Pastoria. There was still a sense of exploration, which I feel was pretty much disrupted by the barricades.
 
godiego said:
i'm not quite sure how the community managed to get such a warped definition of handholding, but no, they're not handholding.

are they necessary? eh. the only one that has an impact on direction is the one on Route 7 and then by virtue of Akala just being Water, Grass, and Fire, picking the order in which you challenge them seems pretty trivial considering that it's just the starter triangle. if it weren't the starter triangle it'd be a bit more interesting to choose i suppose, but then again Game Freak's track record with giving player choices in picking the order of the bosses they face (ie., the bosses are all just the same level) is spotty so....meh.

lore-wise they're the best way the NPC barriers have been done though. much more sensible to explicitly say that you need to clear the trial rather than ~conveniently~ disappear when you clear a story event.
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The barrier by Iki Town actually has the most impact on direction. If it wasn't there, the player would have access to Route 3 and the Verdant Cavern trial site right away. and completely bypass Hau'oli City. Interestingly, this is also the only barricade without a Trial Guide manning the gate, so it's sort of a surprise to players who weren't paying close attention when they end up back in Iki Town.
 
Maybe I wouldn't be as bothered by the barrier if they were realistic and applied to everyone. For example, on Ula'Ula, after you defeat the Team Skull grunts trying to steal the bus stop (!), they mention how they'll retreat to the Skull Mansion.

Thing is, the Skull Mansion lies past a barricade. A barricade you can only pass, if you have an Electrium Z from participating in the Island Challenge. Something the grunts lack...yet is hand waved. That's one of the reasons such railroading is nonsensical-it specifically targets us out.

I think it'd be better if we interacted with characters lamenting that they as well can't move forward like us, because they lack a Gym Badge, Z-Crystal or something. The world building would be more efficient and the aspect would feel less like railroading.
 
Bob Fizzle said:
The barrier by Iki Town actually has the most impact on direction. If it wasn't there, the player would have access to Route 3 and the Verdant Cavern trial site right away. and completely bypass Hau'oli City. Interestingly, this is also the only barricade without a Trial Guide manning the gate, so it's sort of a surprise to players who weren't paying close attention when they end up back in Iki Town.
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nah. you'd still run into the gate from Route 2 to 3. that notwithstanding, you can only challenge Ilima's trial after meeting him at the school and marina/shopping district so even if you could get there first you couldn't challenge the trial. Akala's trials on the other hand can be challenged in any order if the blockades were opened.
Alola said:
Maybe I wouldn't be as bothered by the barrier if they were realistic and applied to everyone. For example, on Ula'Ula, after you defeat the Team Skull grunts trying to steal the bus stop (!), they mention how they'll retreat to the Skull Mansion.

Thing is, the Skull Mansion lies past a barricade. A barricade you can only pass, if you have an Electrium Z from participating in the Island Challenge. Something the grunts lack...yet is hand waved. That's one of the reasons such railroading is nonsensical-it specifically targets us out.

I think it'd be better if we interacted with characters lamenting that they as well can't move forward like us, because they lack a Gym Badge, Z-Crystal or something. The world building would be more efficient and the aspect would feel less like railroading.
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why would it apply to everyone? not everyone does the island challenge.
 
godiego said:
why would it apply to everyone? not everyone does the island challenge.
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Which is why it makes it even more nonsensical. So non-Trainers like Lillie or children are free to wander potentially dangerous zones that Trainers who are actually equipped to deal with, cannot? This is why it should apply to everyone, regardless if they're on their challenge or not. To make it more realistic. That, or take them out completely/use a different method.

Imagine me, with the god of all Pokemon in my party, unable to access Route 3, while a non-Trainer (who has no way to defend themselves from wild Pokemon attacks) can merrily skip past the barricade.
 
Alola said:
Which is why it makes it even more nonsensical. So non-Trainers like Lillie or children are free to wander potentially dangerous zones that Trainers who are actually equipped to deal with, cannot? This is why it should apply to everyone, regardless if they're on their challenge or not. To make it more realistic. That, or take them out completely/use a different method.

Imagine me, with the god of all Pokemon in my party, unable to access Route 3, while a non-Trainer (who has no way to defend themselves from wild Pokemon attacks) can merrily skip past the barricade.
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oh yeah good idea, let's apply logic. lmao. the series has made it abundantly clear that the Pokemon world is pretty dangerous. most people don't travel without a pokemon, let alone travel. Lillie travels with repels and beyond that is also a ~special character~ so most other rules are probably bent for her. of course, the game already acknowledges that Lillie traveling on her own is a bit risky anyways.

furthermore, we know there must be more to the regions than we can ever explore (even beyond stuff like the inaccessible power plants and etc). for instance, in the Johto games your mom can go shopping....but where and...how? even if she were just going to Cherrygrove, she has no Pokemon. she'd've had to had driven. that doesn't seem unreasonable considering that there've been plenty of cars that are inaccessible to the player in games (Hoenn, Unova, Kalos, Alola). tl;dr, the player doesn't get to be 100% in the region, they get the part of the region that's necessary to make the region work within the context of the game and not necessarily within the context of a fully possible-to-actually-live-there place.

blah blah blah, "but whine whine whine why can weak-ass lillie go wherever but i can't" doesn't matter because the barricades serve as a roadmap for you; they are to guide the game, not the day-to-day functionality of the region. also like, lol, why would Skull care about some barriers anyways.
 
I think they're pointless and do nothing more than serve as an annoyance. They're definitely part of the problem of the Alola games being very linear and handholdy. They also don't serve much of a purpose. Unless you're massively grinding, most of the time you'll be around the necessary levels, and you're not going to go somewhere where your level is too low for you to be.

And I know that it being a game, and the rules whatnot should not matter being it is a game. However we do see basically all of the region because it is so small, and we can find everything on region map pictures. It also ends up feeling a little less immersive, since the more sense a game makes in its own world, the more immersive.
 
Sadly, as long as young kids are the target audience for these games, there will always be railroading and hand-holding.
 
Muur said:
I'm fine with it because at least it makes sense kayfabe wise. Unlike that guy and his Stoutland, screw that guy.
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Totally agreed.

On a side note, it's a little strange to see someone use the term "kayfabe" when talking about something other than professional wrestling.
 
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