Catalonian Independence Parties Win A Majority

[The Infidel]

With 90% of the vote now in it is certain that the Together For Yes Campaign has won the Catalonian elections on a platform of declaring independence from Spain.

Obviously Spain will continue to try and oppress the independence movement, but the international community must surely recognise this result. The many who acknowledged Kosovo can't not do the same for Catalonia!

Catalan election: high turnout expected in de facto independence referendum | World news | The Guardian

 

[Tusken Raider]

If Catalonia becomes "independent", then what?
Will they become a member of the European Union?
Is there actual evidence that the Spanish government is trying to suppress the independence movement?

 

[The Infidel]

If Catalonia becomes "independent", then what?
Will they become a member of the European Union?

The beauty is, it's up to Catalonia to decide!

Is there actual evidence that the Spanish government is trying to suppress the independence movement?

Um yes lol. The Spanish government has said they will never accept it, the previous Catalonian government tried to hold a referendum like Scotland had in 2014, and the Spanish government and supreme court blocked it. They had the referendum anyway and 80% favoured independence (though many who were opposed boycotted the referendum)

So now theres a new force called Together For Yes, who are a combination of some old parties both left and right coming together and saying the Spanish gov blocked our referendum but if the Catalan people grant us a majority we will see that as a mandate to move towards independence.

And today the Catalan people did just that! Obviously Spain will try and kick up a fuss, but the people have spoken, under the UN all people have the right to self determination and it was a fair and legitimate vote. Madrid can't ignore this any longer, and a majority of the western community will support this as well.

 

[Tusken Raider]

The beauty is, it's up to Catalonia to decide!

So I'll have to see on the news in the following weeks and months to see if Catalonia joins the European Union.

Um yes lol. The Spanish government has said they will never accept it, the previous Catalonian government tried to hold a referendum like Scotland had in 2014, and the Spanish government and supreme court blocked it. They had the referendum anyway and 80% favoured independence (though many who were opposed boycotted the referendum)

So now theres a new force called Together For Yes, who are a combination of some old parties both left and right coming together and saying the Spanish gov blocked our referendum but if the Catalan people grant us a majority we will see that as a mandate to move towards independence.

And today the Catalan people did just that! Obviously Spain will try and kick up a fuss, but the people have spoken, under the UN all people have the right to self determination and it was a fair and legitimate vote. Madrid can't ignore this any longer, and a majority of the western community will support this as well.

It would be in Spain's best interests to let Catalonia become a separate country, they could be affiliated with them if so. I know that Spain (and the rest of Europe) is having some economic problems. Does Catalonia produce a large amount of something? Like vegetables or beef? If not, I do not see why it's important to the Kingdom. This new force is called "Junstos por el Si" or something like that, right?
I do not know if other countries from the Occident will support Catalan independence but do the political parties from that region have allies in Europe and the Americas?

 

[The Infidel]

So I'll have to see on the news in the following weeks and months to see if Catalonia joins the European Union.

Um yes lol. The Spanish government has said they will never accept it, the previous Catalonian government tried to hold a referendum like Scotland had in 2014, and the Spanish government and supreme court blocked it. They had the referendum anyway and 80% favoured independence (though many who were opposed boycotted the referendum)

So now theres a new force called Together For Yes, who are a combination of some old parties both left and right coming together and saying the Spanish gov blocked our referendum but if the Catalan people grant us a majority we will see that as a mandate to move towards independence.

And today the Catalan people did just that! Obviously Spain will try and kick up a fuss, but the people have spoken, under the UN all people have the right to self determination and it was a fair and legitimate vote. Madrid can't ignore this any longer, and a majority of the western community will support this as well.

It would be in Spain's best interests to let Catalonia become a separate country, they could be affiliated with them if so. I know that Spain (and the rest of Europe) is having some economic problems. Does Catalonia produce a large amount of something? Like vegetables or beef? If not, I do not see why it's important to the Kingdom. This new force is called "Junstos por el Si" or something like that, right?
I do not know if other countries from the Occident will support Catalan independence but do the political parties from that region have allies in Europe and the Americas?

I think the majority of Catalonians are Pro Eu, so I think they will try.

Also Catalonia is quite a rich region of spain, they dont produce anything in particular, other than large tax receipts. I don't know about open allies yet, but I think most European countries support small countries right to exist.

One obvious backer is neighbouring Andorra, but also 22 of 28 EU countries recognise Kosovo, it would be illogicial for them to recognise Kosovo and not Catalonia, when Catalonia is much more legitimate.

 

[Tusken Raider]

So I'll have to see on the news in the following weeks and months to see if Catalonia joins the European Union.

Um yes lol. The Spanish government has said they will never accept it, the previous Catalonian government tried to hold a referendum like Scotland had in 2014, and the Spanish government and supreme court blocked it. They had the referendum anyway and 80% favoured independence (though many who were opposed boycotted the referendum)

So now theres a new force called Together For Yes, who are a combination of some old parties both left and right coming together and saying the Spanish gov blocked our referendum but if the Catalan people grant us a majority we will see that as a mandate to move towards independence.

And today the Catalan people did just that! Obviously Spain will try and kick up a fuss, but the people have spoken, under the UN all people have the right to self determination and it was a fair and legitimate vote. Madrid can't ignore this any longer, and a majority of the western community will support this as well.

It would be in Spain's best interests to let Catalonia become a separate country, they could be affiliated with them if so. I know that Spain (and the rest of Europe) is having some economic problems. Does Catalonia produce a large amount of something? Like vegetables or beef? If not, I do not see why it's important to the Kingdom. This new force is called "Junstos por el Si" or something like that, right?
I do not know if other countries from the Occident will support Catalan independence but do the political parties from that region have allies in Europe and the Americas?

I think the majority of Catalonians are Pro Eu, so I think they will try.

Also Catalonia is quite a rich region of spain, they dont produce anything in particular, other than large tax receipts. I don't know about open allies yet, but I think most European countries support small countries right to exist.

One obvious backer is neighbouring Andorra, but also 22 of 28 EU countries recognise Kosovo, it would be illogicial for them to recognise Kosovo and not Catalonia, when Catalonia is much more legitimate.

What if the other European countries don't support Catalonia's independence? It could be a possibility.
Which are the countries that don't recognize Kosovo? Are those nations near Spain?

 

[The Infidel]

So I'll have to see on the news in the following weeks and months to see if Catalonia joins the European Union.

Um yes lol. The Spanish government has said they will never accept it, the previous Catalonian government tried to hold a referendum like Scotland had in 2014, and the Spanish government and supreme court blocked it. They had the referendum anyway and 80% favoured independence (though many who were opposed boycotted the referendum)

So now theres a new force called Together For Yes, who are a combination of some old parties both left and right coming together and saying the Spanish gov blocked our referendum but if the Catalan people grant us a majority we will see that as a mandate to move towards independence.

And today the Catalan people did just that! Obviously Spain will try and kick up a fuss, but the people have spoken, under the UN all people have the right to self determination and it was a fair and legitimate vote. Madrid can't ignore this any longer, and a majority of the western community will support this as well.

It would be in Spain's best interests to let Catalonia become a separate country, they could be affiliated with them if so. I know that Spain (and the rest of Europe) is having some economic problems. Does Catalonia produce a large amount of something? Like vegetables or beef? If not, I do not see why it's important to the Kingdom. This new force is called "Junstos por el Si" or something like that, right?
I do not know if other countries from the Occident will support Catalan independence but do the political parties from that region have allies in Europe and the Americas?

I think the majority of Catalonians are Pro Eu, so I think they will try.

Also Catalonia is quite a rich region of spain, they dont produce anything in particular, other than large tax receipts. I don't know about open allies yet, but I think most European countries support small countries right to exist.

One obvious backer is neighbouring Andorra, but also 22 of 28 EU countries recognise Kosovo, it would be illogicial for them to recognise Kosovo and not Catalonia, when Catalonia is much more legitimate.

What if the other European countries don't support Catalonia's independence? It could be a possibility.
Which are the countries that don't recognize Kosovo? Are those nations near Spain?

Here

 

[Tusken Raider]

So I'll have to see on the news in the following weeks and months to see if Catalonia joins the European Union.

Um yes lol. The Spanish government has said they will never accept it, the previous Catalonian government tried to hold a referendum like Scotland had in 2014, and the Spanish government and supreme court blocked it. They had the referendum anyway and 80% favoured independence (though many who were opposed boycotted the referendum)

So now theres a new force called Together For Yes, who are a combination of some old parties both left and right coming together and saying the Spanish gov blocked our referendum but if the Catalan people grant us a majority we will see that as a mandate to move towards independence.

And today the Catalan people did just that! Obviously Spain will try and kick up a fuss, but the people have spoken, under the UN all people have the right to self determination and it was a fair and legitimate vote. Madrid can't ignore this any longer, and a majority of the western community will support this as well.

It would be in Spain's best interests to let Catalonia become a separate country, they could be affiliated with them if so. I know that Spain (and the rest of Europe) is having some economic problems. Does Catalonia produce a large amount of something? Like vegetables or beef? If not, I do not see why it's important to the Kingdom. This new force is called "Junstos por el Si" or something like that, right?
I do not know if other countries from the Occident will support Catalan independence but do the political parties from that region have allies in Europe and the Americas?

I think the majority of Catalonians are Pro Eu, so I think they will try.

Also Catalonia is quite a rich region of spain, they dont produce anything in particular, other than large tax receipts. I don't know about open allies yet, but I think most European countries support small countries right to exist.

One obvious backer is neighbouring Andorra, but also 22 of 28 EU countries recognise Kosovo, it would be illogicial for them to recognise Kosovo and not Catalonia, when Catalonia is much more legitimate.

What if the other European countries don't support Catalonia's independence? It could be a possibility.
Which are the countries that don't recognize Kosovo? Are those nations near Spain?

Here

There a lot of countries that don't recognize Kosovo...it should be noted that the US recognizes it.
Ok. That means that many won't recognize it but many others will. Like some relationship status on Facebook, "it's complicated".

 

[dig]

Hey guys, try not to quote extensively like above - it starts to to become illegible and difficult to navigate. Cheers.

 

[Robo-Floatzel]

Lemme just say that unlike Scottish independence, Catalonian independence is more likely to happen, namely because Spain has gone bankrupt and a lot of people are not happy with the country's current government. However, if Spain continues to block Catalan independence, the results could be catastrophic. One should also look at the Basque community that's also been wanting independence from Spain for just as long as the Catalonians have.

 

[Persephone]

A Catalan state would move to the back of the waiting list for EU applicants, which will keep them out of the EU for a little while, but probably not indefinitely. They would also have to establish their own financial system, but the difficulty of doing that is likely overstated. It would be unconstitutional in Spain and, whatever proponents may tell you, there is a healthy concern about allowing self-determination by yes-no votes, particularly when over issues of temporary tax burdens.

Almost inherently, a vote on independence is permanent. A single "yes" result can shatter national borders and weaken collective defense and payment capabilities over a 51% majority. And, in the future, unification votes are improbable. This is further complicated by these votes often occurring at points of unusually high tensions with the central government, rather than under normal circumstances.

Now, there is real concern about what happens in the rest of the EU if Catalan independence happens. The union already suffers from too many weak, financially unstable states with two few militarily significant ones to bail it out. More devolution in powerful nations (England, France) could lead to even weaker European defensive capabilities. Rich regions bailing on poor countries every time there's a recession will likely just reduce the ability of poor nations to meet their obligations, leading to worse future crises in Europe.

I'm not altogether opposed to self determination, but I think it's far too significant a thing to leave to a one-off, simple majority referendum held in a time of crisis. I'd rather each nation set some higher, but existent, bar for leaving it.