Chinese Mythology: Inspiration for new Kami Trio formes?

[yousuf89]

according to what I researched, the kami trios new formes (Sacred Beast or Reijuu forme) are not actually based on the Aztec mythology, but based on the Chinese mythology

- Tornadus is based on the Chinese phoenix or fenghuang
- Thundurus is based on the Chinese dragon
- Landorus is based on the tiger

also it's written in Wikipedia that the dragon is yang and the phoenix is yin, this shows that Tornadus and Thundurus have both the same total base status (both are 580), and it also says that dragons and tigers are both rivals or enemies which also reflect this

Landorus "Reijuu forme" also looks like a bit of a tiger because of the stripes on his back

I also know because of the tatoo design that I found

​

does anyone agrees with this?

 

[El_]

Re: kami trios new sacred beast formes are based on chinese mythology

I dunno about Tornadus being a Phoenix, because a real Chinese Phoenix is Ho-oh.

That aside, this still makes far more sense than the Aztec stuff, which I dunno where people and the Bulbapedia article are getting it from. Rayquaza looks far more Aztec inspired than any of them IMO, and its not really even referencing the Aztec mythology.

If I had to give a sure fire basis, the Kami trio are still Japanese inspired just like their original formes were. I dunno what bird Tornadus is exactly, but I'm 100% certain that Thundurus is a Japanese Dragon and Landorus is indeed a Tiger.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Re: kami trios new sacred beast formes are based on chinese mythology

Now that Landrous is confirmed to be a tiger rather than a jaguar from Aztec mythology, there's practically no way for me to use it to pair it up with Sagat for my Pokemon/Street Fighter crossover idea unless it's confirmed that Landrous and the other kamis still have the same height as their original formes.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: kami trios new sacred beast formes are based on chinese mythology

Sacred Beast Formes: Celestial Beasts, Aztec creatures, or something different? - Blogs - Bulbagarden Forums

I definitely disagree with the idea that they are necessarily based on the Four Celestial Beasts and am more inclined to believe that they are based on independent creatures.

However, I disagree that Tornadus is a phoenix as there is nothing to suggest it is--only that being a phoenix would fit a user-imposed pattern that may not exist.

As for Landorus, as I mentioned in the blog linked above, I think it is thematically closer to a komainu.

For Thundurus, I have given an explanation in the blog as well. But as for what culture this dragon is from, it is more likely Japanese inspired as Japanese dragons are characterized by three claws (compared to 4 in Korea and 5 in China)

Obviously its not purely a Japanese dragon, but it does take a fairly serpentine forme. The weirdest suggestion I've seen is satyr. Maybe because its two-toned? But thats completely ignoring what a satyr is.

 

[yousuf89]

Re: kami trios new sacred beast formes are based on chinese mythology

Who told you all of this?

- Thundurus CAN'T be based on a Quetzalcoatl since it doesn't look like a feathered serpent
- Tornadus CAN'T be based on a Huitzilopochtli, Tornadus is more like a phoenix and NOT a hummingbird

also I didn't even mention about the Four Celestial Beast above, I only mentioned it came from the tattoo picture that I found in another website

and according to Wikipedia, dragon represents yang and the phoenix represent yin, look at this link to find out more
Chinese dragon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sacred Beast Formes: Celestial Beasts, Aztec creatures, or something different? - Blogs - Bulbagarden Forums

I definitely disagree with the idea that they are necessarily based on the Four Celestial Beasts and am more inclined to believe that they are based on independent creatures.

However, I disagree that Tornadus is a phoenix as there is nothing to suggest it is--only that being a phoenix would fit a user-imposed pattern that may not exist.

As for Landorus, as I mentioned in the blog linked above, I think it is thematically closer to a komainu.

For Thundurus, I have given an explanation in the blog as well. But as for what culture this dragon is from, it is more likely Japanese inspired as Japanese dragons are characterized by three claws (compared to 4 in Korea and 5 in China)

Obviously its not purely a Japanese dragon, but it does take a fairly serpentine forme. The weirdest suggestion I've seen is satyr. Maybe because its two-toned? But thats completely ignoring what a satyr is.

 

[UnovaCastaway]

Re: kami trios new sacred beast formes are based on chinese mythology

Sacred Beast Formes: Celestial Beasts, Aztec creatures, or something different? - Blogs - Bulbagarden Forums

For Thundurus, I have given an explanation in the blog as well. But as for what culture this dragon is from, it is more likely Japanese inspired as Japanese dragons are characterized by three claws (compared to 4 in Korea and 5 in China)

Obviously its not purely a Japanese dragon, but it does take a fairly serpentine forme. The weirdest suggestion I've seen is satyr. Maybe because its two-toned? But thats completely ignoring what a satyr is.

But aren't all Asian dragons fairly serpentine? (I haven't studied much about Asian dragons, but that's the general form ala Rayquaza, Dratini/ Dragonair, and Gyarados)

And Thundurus looks nothing like a satyr (half human, half hoofed mammal like goat or horse)

 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

Re: kami trios new sacred beast formes are based on chinese mythology

Except Tornadus looks nothing like a conventional Eastern Phoenix. I agree with Outrage. People are seeing patterns where there might not be one.

 

[moa]

Re: kami trios new sacred beast formes are based on chinese mythology

are the mythical animals in Chinese mythology able to have human forms?
I am not very sure but I think in Aztec mythology creatures are able to transform into human forms and even reborn in other forms.

 

[The Outrage]

Re: kami trios new sacred beast formes are based on chinese mythology

@yousuf89

First thing is first, my denying that Tornadus is based on a phoenix doesn't mean I agreed with the alternative Aztec mythology explanation. Second, I brought up the Four Celestial beasts because that was the prominent alternate theory, and the fact that your theory is basically that minus the relation to compass points so my arguments against it in my blog are more or less relevant here. Third, a "tattooo design I found online" hardly qualifies as good evidence toward making claims that they are drawn from Chinese mythology.

Now I don't know why you are, once again, telling me the relation between Yin and Yang, and dragon and phoenix as you mentioned that earlier already. All you are doing is highlighting my criticism that people are calling Tornadus a phoenix simply to fit a pattern they want to see, rather than trying to see what Tornadus actually is. Thundurus, independent of Tornadus is undoubtedly a dragon. Tornadus contains no other characteristics of a phoenix. Yes, you sight the duality between the two. However, the relation between the dragon and phoenix is one of harmony, and not conflict. It's ironic you cite that article since the Dragon is also complemented (in terms of rivalry) by the Tiger. Given Thundurus and Tornadus' relations, one would compare them to dragons and tigers rather than dragons and phoenixes (both of which are ascribed to the emperor and empress respectively; you're saying those two are in conflict?)

@UnovaCastaway

Yes, all East Asian dragons have the same basic form, and that's due to a common origin. However, like I mentioned in my post (and is found in that quote itself), the culture in which these dragons belong can be easily distinguished by the number of claws they have. Japanese dragons traditionally have three, Korean dragons have four, and Chinese have five.

Game Freak is a Japan-based company. It's highly unlikely that they are ignorant of what separates Japanese and Chinese dragons.

 

[UnovaCastaway]

Aah, I totally forgot about the number of claws! Thanks for reminding me.

 

[The Outrage]

Aah, I totally forgot about the number of claws! Thanks for reminding me.

I do think its quite telling that Thundurus in its Incarnation form is a five-fingered humanoid, while its Sacred Beast form, despite its somewhat humanoid torso and arms would only have three claws. Its not as if two more would make it crowded.


The legs are practically vestigial limbs so they could have gotten away with five claws on the arm and three on the feet but they didn't.