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Communism: A Tour

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Ѕcyther

Trotskyist Bug
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There is one post I've spread as I have hopped between forums over the years, and it is a very brief and somewhat limited introduction to communism. I was not the original author but I join in the conversation. Eventually I will make my own version I suppose. I guess the purpose of this thread could be to discuss anything related to communism. I myself am a communist so I guess this could be the ask-a-communist thread too.
tongue.gif
I am not an apologist however. You'll find communists can despise eachother nearly as much as they do the system they fight against, a prime example being North Korea. In fact this thread is probably best put to use discussing current events in "communist" countries in relation to the US to better fit in with this subforum.

Orthodox Marxism
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels
Description: The Orthodox Marxist's main feature is that they reject Leninism and the vanguard of the Proletariat, instead looking solely at Marx's original writings and stating that the revolution will be a spontaneous affair (along the lines of the Paris Commune being set up) and thus there is no need for a Revolutionary party. Their ideas about society also flow from the writings of Marx and Engels, dreaming of a world with no money, no wages, no government, no leaders, etc. Because of their opposition to Leninism they do not take part in any organization, most of their actions being based around 'educating the masses' while sitting and waiting for the revolution to, spontaneously, happen. Parties are generally small and highly sectarian.
Areas of Operation: Industrial, western nations. Confined mainly to Europe and the USA.
Size of global movement: Thousands
Examples: World Communist Movement (with branches in New Zealand, Britain and the US)


Leninism

Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin
Description: Leninism develops Marxism into not so much a social and economic theory, but a fully fledged political ideology incorporating a key methodology to take power. The most important factor of Leninism is the 'Vanguard' theory, which states that there must be a unified revolutionary party of so called 'full time revolutionaries' to spear head and lead the workers revolution. It also states that revolution can be made (clashing with the Orthodox Marxists) and that revolution can be made in countries that have not experienced a full bourgeois revolution (ala Russia, 1917). According to Leninist practice power is to be taken by way of armed struggle against the state (not full blown war) and then the revolution is to be 'exported' through military means, i.e. the Communist forces aiding other Communist Revolutions with supplies and troops. There are very few 'true' Leninist parties left in the world, most parties now have adopted other ideologies, but everything flows back to Leninism.
Areas of Operation: Scattered across the globe, but concentrated in Europe, the USA and Balkans.
Size of Global Movement: Surprisingly small
Examples: A few 'Trotskite' parties adhere to strict Leninism, a few Russian parties.


Stalinism (often called 'Marxist-Leninism' by Stalinists):
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin.
Description: Stalinism, contrary to popular opinion, is simply an extension of Leninist thought. Stalinism is virtually exactly the same as Leninism, with several differences. Firstly Stalinism supports 'Socialism in One Country' which means that the focus should be on building Communism in each country as opposed to spreading it through military means, which was no longer viable by the 1930s. Stalinism also states that there must be active antagonism between classes (as opposed to simply fighting in struggles that already exist) so as to further the achievements of the class struggle. Stalinism also tends to stress the importance of heavy industry as well as collectivization of agriculture. Areas of Operation: Europe, particularly Eastern Europe. Has a strong following in the USA too.
Size of Global Movement: Millions
Examples: Russian Communist Workers' Party - Revolutionary Party of Communists, Communist Party Alliance (Britain)


Trotskyism (Occasionally called Bolshevik-Leninism)
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky
Description: Trotskyism bases itself on Leninism, and in most respects is the same. However it stresses the importance of spreading the revolution by way of arms and internationalism as well as claiming that Communism cannot be built without a world revolution (that is, you cannot create Communism in isolation). Trotskyites tend to be very anti-intellectual (despite most of them being of middle class background and Trotsky himself being a well off, educated Jewish man) believing that only the unskilled workers have revolutionary potential. Trotskyite parties tend to be fairly small and sectarian, splitting often, but there are many of them. Often take a leading role in student and anti-war activism. Trotskite parties often make up the bulk of the Communist movement in highly developed capitalist nations (for example, Britain, New Zealand etc) Are constantly trying to form a new international, in fact there are about 20 completely separate 4th/5th internationals at the moment, all of which bitterly hate each other.
Areas of Operation: The west, scatterings in South America.
Size of Global Movement: Hundreds of thousands
Examples: Communist League (branches all over the world), Communist Workers Party (New Zealand).

Maoism
(Also known as Marxist-Leninist-Maoism. Maoists often call themselves Marxist-Leninists)
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao
Description: Maoism is, in many ways, an extension of Stalinism but with many key modifications. Firstly Maoism states that the revolution can be made by peasants, that they have the same revolutionary potential as the urban proletariat (this goes against Marx who once called peasants "parasites"). Secondly, Maoism says that everyone can be part of the Revolution regardless of their background, as in Maoism is a mass movement that transcends class boundaries, instead anyone who agreed and was willing to fight for Maoism would be allowed to join the movement. Thirdly, Maoism clearly states that the revolution will be won by way of a peoples war, that is to say mobilizing the masses in a war against the state using the methodology laid down by Mao (a peoples, or protracted war). Fourthly, Maoism states that contradictions between the masses continue during Socialism, only disappearing when Communism is instituted. Maoism stresses the need for mass mobilization, to get everybody involved in building Communism instead of just leaving it to a smaller group of revolutionaries (ala Leninism).
Areas of Operation: Mainly Asia.
Size of Global Movement: Many millions
Examples: Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist), Communist Party of India (Maoist).

Anti-Revisionism (most anti-revisionists call themselves Marxist-Leninists):
Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Hoxha, Kim Il Sung.
Description: Anti-Revisionism is not a defined or unified ideology, so these are more generalizations than anything. Anti-Revisionism indicates a rejection of Khrushchev's 'secret speech' and an incredibly hardliner approach to Communism. They generally adopt a Stalinist model as their basis, but often modify it to incorporate nationalists and/or self reliant ideas. They tend to be very aggressive and sectarian, most holding up Stalin as their champion even more than Stalinists! Many Anti-Revisionists support the DPRK (North Korea) and it's not uncommon for Anti-Revisionist parties to have links with the Korean Workers Party (ruling party of North Korea).
Areas of operation: USA and Eastern Europe.
Size of Global Movement: Thousands
Examples: Communist Party of Canada (Marxist-Leninist) (aka Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada), U.S. Marxist-Leninist Organisation.

Hoxhaism

Key Thinkers: Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Hoxha
Description: Hoxhaism is, possibly, the most hardliner of all the Communist strains. It is essentially Anti-Revisionism, but based solely around the writings of the late Enver Hoxha (Said Hodz-ya). This stresses self reliance, nationalism (to almost xenophobic extremes), as well as arguing for equal rights for nations of all sizes and more constructive things like UN reform and for countries to be non-aligned and free of foreign influence. Often they worship Hoxha as an almost saintly figure, which keeps in line with the Albanian propaganda of the time (he was the head of Albania). Hoxhaism also incorporates certain aspects of Maoism, for instance mass involvement, but with a more traditional Leninist 'vanguard' to lead them.
Areas of operation: Europe, particularly Eastern Europe and Albania
Size of Global movement: Thousands, most in Albania.
Examples: Communist Party of Albania, Workers Communist Party (Denmark)

Juche
Key thinkers: Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il's Ghost Writers
Description: Juche is and isn't a form of Communism. According to the dogma the revolution belongs to the people and the people must be lead by a great leader, in the words of Kim Il Sung: "The leader is the brain to the body of the people, and that the Korean Workers' Party is, in turn, the nervous system that communicates with the brain on behalf of the people." This effectively means that Juche is an autocratic monarchy that uses Socialism, not divine right, as a justification for their actions. Juche also calls for self sufficiency, as well as as little foreign aid and involvement as possible. It is almost religious in nature, Kim Il Sung having been turned into a divine figure and much Juche propaganda is written in almost biblical fashion.
Areas of Operation: North Korea, smatterings in the west.
Size of Global movement: Tiny (Thousands. However there will be many party members in the DPRK,
but this does not indicate ideology)
Examples: Korean Workers Party, Juche Study Groups across the world (more for propaganda purposes than any sort of study)
 
Yush...After reading Animal Farm...Communism seems oh so simplistic to me. =/

Anyways the lack of the motivation variable makes a Communist Economy stagnant and always playing catch-up with the Social Democracies or Capitalistic economies...

But then again China... D:
 
While we're on this topic: people should not confuse communism with socialism. Socialism is what countries like Cuba and North Korea have. Communism is completely different - a communist society would have no government, especially not a maniacal, power-hungry one. In theory, socialist states should give way to communism, but that's a long way off.
 
But then again China... D:

China's not really communist anymore. It's a Totalitarian Capitalist society now. It's communist in name only.
 
While we're on this topic: people should not confuse communism with socialism. Socialism is what countries like Cuba and North Korea have. Communism is completely different - a communist society would have no government, especially not a maniacal, power-hungry one. In theory, socialist states should give way to communism, but that's a long way off.
Yes, so really all the examples given in the theories are socialist states, not communist societies/states :ksmile:.

China's not really communist anymore. It's a Totalitarian Capitalist society now. It's communist in name only.
Well there is a fine line between corporatism and market socialism, I'd still classify China as socialism. They're certainly not textbook totalitarian anymore either. They're remarkably stable considering their recent history and very recent liberal reforms.

I honestly do not know what lays in store for China... I would hope they continue some democratic reforms, while move towards a left-socialism. It'd be nice if they could be the new Moscow... but I don't dare to dream.
 
Communism is certainly interesting for a look. Sadly I was not able to read Animal Farm in HS, and it's not available in my libraries...>.<

I would consider China a in-between of totalitarian and captialistic in economic and social natures. The coastal area of China is experiencing the captialistic part with their EZs and open areas, while the interior is still very rural and very stagnant.
The human rights have made progress in China yes, but the populace and economy is only as liberal as the Beijing Gov. says.

Nepal is a strange case, a king overthrown by Maoist rebels who now control the government. I don't know much of what went on, but it's strange how Bhutan has not fallen the same way as Nepal.
 
Yush...After reading Animal Farm...Communism seems oh so simplistic to me. =/

Anyways the lack of the motivation variable makes a Communist Economy stagnant and always playing catch-up with the Social Democracies or Capitalistic economies...

But then again China... D:

Yes, but that "motivation variable" is greed, pure and simple. It leads to things like monopolies, fraud, snake-oil salesmen, a huge gap between upper and lower classes, etc.

I think that, given a real chance, Communism would work out much better than Capitalism. But unfortunately, "giving it a chance" would require changing pretty much everything about our society. Russia, China, and others have tried and failed in the past, with things getting corrupted and eventually devolving into totalitarianism. So I doubt we'd ever get a chance to see if Communism, in its purest and highest form, could actually work.
 
I'm more like a very socialist liberal, but I love studying communism. I'm probably going to do my senior honors thesis on something involving it, I just don't know what yet, but if I combine it with my major's thesis, it'll probably be accounting or accounting law in "communist" countries.

Anyway, thanks for that little read. It's nice to finally be able to put a name to more of the Asian communists than the Maoists.
 
I think the Global Warming Green movement is morden day Communism in disguise.
 
Yes, but that "motivation variable" is greed, pure and simple. It leads to things like monopolies, fraud, snake-oil salesmen, a huge gap between upper and lower classes, etc.

I think that, given a real chance, Communism would work out much better than Capitalism. But unfortunately, "giving it a chance" would require changing pretty much everything about our society. Russia, China, and others have tried and failed in the past, with things getting corrupted and eventually devolving into totalitarianism. So I doubt we'd ever get a chance to see if Communism, in its purest and highest form, could actually work.

Yes. I know that what I called motivation in capitalism is essentially greed. I know that it is bad and all that. What I was trying to point out though was how will new technologies be developed as fast as they are in today's society in a communist state?

I know that communism sounds great in paper but it's just that it is a human endeavor and will be corrupted by wayward people given the chance. But yes if only people didn't have such things as the "7 capital sins" then communism might work...

That well the drawbacks of communism and the wanton greed of an unregulated capitalistic society is what makes me fully support a European Social Democracy-type of government. ^_^
 
Yush...After reading Animal Farm...Communism seems oh so simplistic to me. =/


Oh, that so made me cry, what happened to Boxer.

I'm more like a very socialist liberal, but I love studying communism. I'm probably going to do my senior honors thesis on something involving it, I just don't know what yet, but if I combine it with my major's thesis, it'll probably be accounting or accounting law in "communist" countries.

I know what you mean. I love reading about communists societies, and all that. You find such interesting stories among them. It's interesting. I just don't know why if you read about it, people start thinking you're a communist. I mean, is it wrong to get information on something just because you're curious.


Yes, but that "motivation variable" is greed, pure and simple. It leads to things like monopolies, fraud, snake-oil salesmen, a huge gap between upper and lower classes, etc.

Yeah. Even though monopolies aren't allowed, you can still get away with an oligopoly.
I always thought Stalin's Five Year Plans were good. It would just be kind of difficult to carry them out.
 
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I've been interested in communism for a very long time. My opinion of it has gone from sympathy to deep hatred, and everywhere in between. Like many other ideologies, communism is flawed on a very basic level. That is, it assumes people will all act in the same way when presented with a certain situation. It also assumes that there will eventually be an "end to history," when everyone is communist and happy and we never have to change.

Marx himself didn't think of what he created as an "ideology," he thought of ideology as a tool that people in power use to justify their existence. What he had, according to him, was the underlying truth, and anyone who followed him would be free of ideology since they would just have the truth. Whether it be from political leaders, religious leaders, or some crazy guy on the street, it always raises a red flag for me when someone claims to have the absolute truth and everything else is just a method of control. Unfortunately, that seems to happen a lot in all aspects of society.
 
I know what you mean. I love reading about communists societies, and all that. You find such interesting stories among them. It's interesting. I just don't know why if you read about it, people start thinking you're a communist. I mean, is it wrong to get information on something just because you're curious.

Yeah, and then I get the lecture from EVERYONE on why communism would never work, and it's always the same old argument they teach you in high school.
 
Wow, who knew I'd find communist sympathizers on a pokemon fan site... :P
 
I am a fellow traveler to your cause, comrade! We shall take down those capitalist pigs and start a revolution by the proletariat and for the proletariat! MR. SCYTHER, OPEN THIS GATE OF FREEDOM! MR. SCYTHER, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL OF TYRANNY!
 
I am a fellow traveler to your cause, comrade! We shall take down those capitalist pigs and start a revolution by the proletariat and for the proletariat! MR. SCYTHER, OPEN THIS GATE OF FREEDOM! MR. SCYTHER, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL OF TYRANNY!
Да здравствует вооруженное восстание!
 
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