Communism?

[Terra Force]

Discuss your opinions on Communism here.

I, for one, am a Communist. I look up to people like Stalin and Mao, etc. It was originally meant to be a beneficial government, but then it changed after it became well-known (Russian Revolution, anyone?).

 

[Fig]

You look up to a mass murderer on the scale of Hitler, if not worse? And the one who, more than anyone else, turned "Communism" into "One man's personal empire"?

AS for the value of communism...meh. The basic idea is utopian, much like laissez-faire capitalism.

Communism will only work in a world where humans are selfless and responsible enough to do their utmost even in a world where doing your best and not doing any effort get you the exact same result. Laissez-faire capitalism will only work in a world where humans are able to consider anything beyond the the short term when taking decisions. That doesn't exist either.

So yeah. It's a nice dream, but an unattainable one.

 

[Zeta]

Yes, both communism and totally free-market capitalism are flawed because they don't take into account basic human nature. Communism causes lack of innovation and initiative and free-market capitalism causes exploitation of both humanity and the planet.

 

[Irinya]

. . .

You're joking right? You look up to Stalin because he was a communist? He killed half of Russia's population and was an insane paranoiac. As for communism, it is impossible. End of story, the people above me said enough.

PLEASE let this be spam.

 

[The Outrage]

Communism would work if people didn't have corrupted hearts. Until then, I'd go for a democray where our leaders atleast pretend like they care about us

 

[MetaRobo]

George Orwell's 1984 summed it up nicely. Communism fails because the authoritarian leaders end up caring more for themselves as opposed to the people who they are supposed to be caring about. I am somewhat sympathetic to anarchist variants of communism, which has no government and is thus closer to the true meaning of it.

One little quip. I love how everyone loves John Lennon (Lenin)'s Imagine until they realize it's about communism.

 

[The Outrage]

One little quip. I love how everyone loves John Lennon (Lenin)'s Imagine until they realize it's about communism.

We made our own "Civilization" in World History class and most of our class had formed a communist government.

 

[Irinya]

One little quip. I love how everyone loves John Lennon (Lenin)'s Imagine until they realize it's about communism.

Some people realized something was about communism? Does this imply that people know what communism really is? *gasp* I'll applaud to that, seeing as even those humans who grew up during the Cold War seem to have not idea was communism is really about. (But they know Obama is one, as was Gorbachev, so it must be bad).

We made our own "Civilization" in World History class and most of our class had formed a communist government.

I want your history class , that actually sounds kinda fun.

 

[MetaRobo]

Some people realized something was about communism? Does this imply that people know what communism really is? *gasp* I'll applaud to that, seeing as even those humans who grew up during the Cold War seem to have not idea was communism is really about. (But they know Obama is one, as was Gorbachev, so it must be bad).

I'm sorry to destroy your temporary gain of faith in the human race, but then those people who hate it after they realize it's about communism go on about how Lennon is a vile, horrible human being for supporting it. Imagine (pun intended), how by themselves meaningless words can turn a person from "good" to "evil" in a heartbeat. It's a sad state of affairs when one can turn the North American population against something just by calling it "communist" or even "socialist", which people wrongly use interchangably.

 

[evkl]

Communism and democracy aren't incompatible ideas, I don't know why people think you can't have elections and appoint representatives in a communist state. It's just that we don't have any full-communist democracies in the world.

We do, however, have a number of socialist democracies which work quite well.

 

[Fig]

Particularly sad in that the song is more Utopian than Communist in nature; it's all about the ideal of a perfect world where everyone gets all they need, nobody fights anybody, etc.

Lennon's own statement on "being like the communist manifesto" seems (based on his other statements) to have had more to do with "My song is hyper-anti-establishment, but because I sugar-coat it, no one minds".

 

[MetaRobo]

It's ironic that Imagine is so popular in the US when it stands against everything the US stands for. But I suppose everyone just listens to the pretty tune.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

It's ironic that Imagine is so popular in the US when it stands against everything the US stands for. But I suppose everyone just listens to the pretty tune.

The song, is at its core, about a better world. Why would anyone have a problem with that?

 

[Irinya]

Communism and democracy aren't incompatible ideas, I don't know why people think you can't have elections and appoint representatives in a communist state. It's just that we don't have any full-communist democracies in the world.

How exactly are they compatible? I don't see what the point would be in elections if the end result would always be the same. Everything is already laid out in a communist rule, the government is really just there to 'redistribute the wealth' once you break it all down. And this applies to the 'real' communism and the fake communism (aka Soviet rule at so on).

 

[MetaRobo]

When the US is all about Praise the Lord, the American Way, and the Holy Market, the song being about no God, no countries, and no possessions just doesn't mingle.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

When the US is all about Praise the Lord, the American Way, and the Holy Market, the song being about no God, no countries, and no possessions just doesn't mingle.

You're looking at it too literally. It's not about not having those things. It's about those things not dividing us into these little groups that feel the need to harass and insult each other. Though, as you said earlier...people do like the pretty music as well.

 

[MetaRobo]

While we're on the topic of communism, I just wanted to bring up a little story about a Communist party in Canada. I decided to attend a little forum for the candidates in my riding, and the Marxist-Leninist candidate was completely single-issue. He never stopped talking about workers and imperialism no matter what issue was thrown at him. One particularly funny moment was when he went off into a long rant about foreign intervention being just an excuse for Western imperialism in a response to a question of whether we should intervene in Darfur, but when asked for an actual answer to the question, he said we should intervene. There are good points brought up, but the lot are just so crazy that I'd rather back a more moderate party like the NDP who actually has some sense of how to govern.

 

[TTEchidna]

Obviously. Moderation is better for everything. Go crazy conservative, you get a nut like Palin, or even worse, the guy who shan't be mentioned lest I lose the thread automatically.

Go wacko liberal, you get the same thing, and then end up with leaders who couldn't give a damn about really, truly redistributing the wealth, and just tax everyone so they're equally poor and the government is rich as hell.

You either end up with 1984 or 1945. Extremists are the worst thing there is in any possible manner, because they're quite literally willing to kill (or do almost as much) to silence any other views besides their own. To them, everyone else is wrong.

 

[evkl]

How exactly are they compatible? I don't see what the point would be in elections if the end result would always be the same. Everything is already laid out in a communist rule, the government is really just there to 'redistribute the wealth' once you break it all down. And this applies to the 'real' communism and the fake communism (aka Soviet rule at so on).

Because somebody has to determine what wealth is poured into. Probably the best way to determine what everyone's equal share is, in large-scale (150 or more persons) communes, is to have some kind of legislative body which sets the agenda for the society. Even if everything is centrally planned, in an ideal communist society, everyone would have a say in how it's planned.

Kibbutzim, in Israel, work very well as small-scale communes for precisely that reason: they're small-scale, and there aren't a ton of decisions about the distribution of resources. Even in a communist society wouldn't be distributed exactly evenly, but the net distribution of resources would be equal. (For instance--I may take no value from getting a "share" of beef, but may especially enjoy pasta. Thus, I forsake my share of beef for a beef-equivalent share of pasta)

 

[Masato]

I do not support communism because it just fails. Go look at China under Mao Zedong, Cambodia under Pol Pot, and the Soviet Union. These countries ended up failing economically (such as having famines as a result of economic policy). Not to mention they ended up having dictatorships that murdered masses and that many communist governments hold anti-religious ideals and end up implementing them (such as the persecution of Christians in China which still continues to this day).