Competitive battling and the wiki's

Archaic

Archaic

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Archaic - Webmaster Scorbunny Fan Sprigatito Fan
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It's been suggested that, due to the potentially subjective nature of the content, that a separate partner wiki be established, a Battlepedia if you will, with content tailored for the competitive battling crowd, including tier lists, articles on recommended movesets, etc, etc.

I'd like to hear some of the thoughts of everyone on this, both battlers and non-battlers, along with proposals from the battlers on exactly what kind of articles they'd expect to see here. I'd also like to see someone address the following issue, which I've c/p'ed from a PM to me on the subject, given the format of a wiki.
People will edit the pages to their liking, even if they have little or no battling expertise. Doubtless, you've seen that a lot on the 'Pedia.
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Not sure, myself.

I don't think that a wiki format is best for anything on competitive battling, as it more often than not simply an opinion.
 
I don't see people going to a wiki to get their knowledge on how the metagame is run.

For one thing, Smogon isn't a wiki, so their data isn't subject to editing by anyone but the admins of the site. Their data has been tested by dozens of people over several months, so they have the knowledge behind how the metagame is run.

Bulbapedia's good for trival information and flavor text about the creatures in general, rather then how they're played in the metagame.
 
A place where anyone can edit anything really isn't the best thing for competitive battling.
 
Misty said:
tbh I think it's a bit pointless. Why not just have competitive stuff on the normal wiki?
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Agreed. I'd prefer to eliminate the tier, etc. crap altogether, but since I know I'm in the minority, I don't think it justifies a whole additional wiki by itself.
 
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There is one point I'd like to bring up quickly.

A Wiki is, at its root, a CMS, or Content Management System, with a lot of extra functionality thrown on top. Using a wiki removes the need for the majority of contributors to actually need to know how to code information, and makes it easier for them to input their information into the "knowledge database".

Assuming that the contributors to this "knowledge database" were vetted, with the Wiki locked to edits so it's down to just being a CMS, you could certainly get together a good team of people to create all your articles. But....who chooses these people, how do we find enough people to make it worthwhile, and would people battling competitively really have enough time to contribute their information to the extent that we'd need?
 
Archaic said:
There is one point I'd like to bring up quickly.

A Wiki is, at its root, a CMS, or Content Management System, with a lot of extra functionality thrown on top. Using a wiki removes the need for the majority of contributors to actually need to know how to code information, and makes it easier for them to input their information into the "knowledge database".

Assuming that the contributors to this "knowledge database" were vetted, with the Wiki locked to edits so it's down to just being a CMS, you could certainly get together a good team of people to create all your articles. But....who chooses these people, how do we find enough people to make it worthwhile, and would people battling competitively really have enough time to contribute their information to the extent that we'd need?
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I'd volunteer, since I brought the idea up.
 
OMG GARCHOMP IS TOTALLEY UBER GUYZ!! = not factual
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Actually, that ^ is true, on smogon.

But yeah, I don't think a competitive wiki is needed. Everything is already on Smogon and Serebii anyway.
 
xadow said:
Actually, that ^ is true, on smogon.

But yeah, I don't think a competitive wiki is needed. Everything is already on Smogon and Serebii anyway.
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Both sites lack doubles information. Moreover, both sites can be hard to navigate and sometimes lack information, such as Smogon not providing information to how Pokemon acquire moves, and Serebii taking too long to find information.
 
Since I've done a good deal of development on #DPBattle, run tournaments for you guys, etc, I'd like to chime in and say this is a good thing. As for Smogon, Serebii, and other sites, their devteams are RETARDED at this point. I'm going to officially say Smogon is largely dead as far as anything interesting goes. We have a different format, a different methodology, and a much more usable philosophy here.

A wiki would be a good place to store information, as well as make something more referrable than the other dexes. For example, why can't we look up a pokemon by two types and a key move at the same time? FFS why not just make something SQL-based?
 
xadow said:
Everything is already on Smogon and Serebii anyway.
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But not everyone goes there.

Competitive battling isn't just saying stuff like 'GARCHOMP IS UBER' and shit, what about building our own actual metagame instead of just ripping from the pretty-inconsistent tiers of Smogon?

Also, not to mention the current popular Pokédexes (holy shit, I spelled it with the accented e again! I'm on a roll!) are rather... cluttered, hard to read, and take up way more space than it should. Something new and quick reference would be nicer..

Also, doubles. I've never seen a site with info on double battling. Ever. :(
 
Doubles is something we intend to cover heavily; the formats we're using intend to have corresponding doubles versions, with altered banlists as necessary.
 
Yes, we have many people working on new developments for Bulbagarden as far as competitive battling goes, and we have all mentioned that we should have a doubles guide.

Also, Serebii's site is, to be straightforward, shit for competitive. The PotW's are just dumbed down versions of Smogon's analyses. Smogon is HIGHLY inconsistent, as has already been said. Anyone remember Aerodactyl being UU? Well, now it's back up to OU, and it has been BL. Of course, that's just one example. That's been done many times. Smogon tiers are mainly based on useage, and Kittymew has developed a new tier system based on ability, so there will most likely not be any more shifts in tier placement.
 
I'd like to have a stab at some articles, since I've been playing this metagame for about a year and know a lot about it. The good thing about a wiki is that it can be quickly updated, Smogon hasn't updated it's articles in months.
 
Hey Emp, why not show up in #dpbattle on IRC? Sounds like you should come take a look at the stuff we're developing and give us a hand. If you're good at metagame analysis, we could certainly use ya. :)
 
Competitive battling is not about tiers. It is about using a Pokemon to the best of it's ability. The wiki can show people how well a Pokemon can use the moves it learns and how well it can interact with other Pokemon on a team.
 
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