Could I get an RMT on my Trick Room slowbies?

[CapnJoe]

Hey guys. I've been working on this trick room team for some time now and I'd really like some feedback on it.

Primary Trick Room Set-up/Beefy Special Sweeper

Reuniclus
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Magic Guard
EV's: 252 HP / 4 DEF / 252 Sp. ATK
Moves:
Psychic
Shadow Ball
Trick Room
Recover

I think the choice of Reuniclus to lead the trick room team is a fairly obvious one. Huge Sp. ATK, huge bulk, super low speed, access to easy recovery and an awesome ability. She's really what keeps this team going. I went with the obvious choice for STAB, and chose psychic over psyshock because I've got a lot more going for me in this team for ATK over Sp. ATK as you'll notice. I had originally gone with focus blast as his secondary attack but switched it to thunder due to the prominence of rain and because I've got fighting pretty well covered elsewhere.

Phys wall/Hazard Set-up

Ferrothorn
Item: Rocky Helmet
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Iron Barbs
EV's: 252 HP / 252 DEF / 4 Sp. DEF
Moves:
Iron Defense
Power Whip
Stealth Rock
Explosion

OR

Mixed Wall/Hazard Set-up

Ferrothorn
Item: Occa Berry
Nature: Impish
Ability: Iron Barbs
EV's: 252 HP / 128 DEF / 128 Sp. DEF
Moves:
Leech Seed
Power Whip
Spikes
Ingrain

Yeah, I've got two lvl 100 Ferrothorns. *sigh* I've got a lot of time on my hands. The thing is, I can't really decide which one to use. I've been using the first one mostly and she's been working well. Really punishes physical attackers well and takes those hits like nobody's business. Then once a flamethrower comes out it's time to explode. The second one is able to take a bigger variety of hits for longer though, and has different kind of hazards. I'm also thinking he could drop ingrain for stealth rock so he would be able to do both kinds of hazards. So advice on picking between these two would be awesome.

Beefy Sweeper

Katherine (Escavalier)
Item: Shell Bell
Nature: Brave
Ability: Shell Armor
EV's: 252 HP / 252 ATK / 4 DEF
Moves:
Iron Head
Megahorn
Pursuit
Swords Dance

Escavalier is hands down, my favorite Pokemon. Look at that design! Cavalry snail? UH-mazing. Katherine here can really take the hits and dish them right back out. That immense 405 ATK stat only gets more ridiculous after a swords dance. After that, a STAB megahorn will bring down a lot. and she's pretty tough to get away from with pursuit. All in all, it's a pretty straightforward set-up here, not much deviation to be had on this poke.

Choice Sweeper

Machamp
Item: Choice Band
Nature: Brave
Ability: No Guard
EV's: 252 HP / 252 ATK / 4 Sp. DEF
Moves:
Dynamic Punch
Stone Edge
Ice Punch
Fire Punch

I've always been a fan of this four-armed BAMF. I really like his movepool and for this particular set, that movepool really helps fill in some gaps with ice punch and stone edge. The main reason I chose machamp over something like conkledurr though, is the dynamic punch that can't miss. I like that 100% chance to confuse an awful lot.

Secondary Trick Room Set-up/Special Sweeper

Slowking
Item: Leftovers
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Regenerator
EV's: 252 HP / 4 DEF / 252 Sp. ATK
Moves:
Scald
Flamethrower
Nasty Plot
Trick Room

Slowking is here to fill in should Reuniclus go down. Her job is strikingly similar to that of Reuniclus but I wanted to focus a little more on power here. Hence nasty plot. I chose to forgo the secondary STAB attack in lieu of having another option for fire attacks on my team.

Mixed (but mostly special) Wall

Scrafty
Item: Sitrus Berry
Nature: Sassy
Ability: Intimidate
EV's: 252 HP / 4 ATK / 252 Sp. DEF
Moves:
Drain Punch
Crunch
Fake Out
Bulk Up

Well, I gave in and went with a Scrafty here. I really don't like the design but it fits my team so well. It virtually garentees my trick room set-up if I'm playing doubles because of fake-out and with its defenses being what they are, it can really have a lot of staying power from abusing drain punch. I took crunch over detect for the awesome dark/fighting coverage and bulk up so that it can tank physical hits as well as special without the EV investment.

​

Well, there you have it, the result of over 250 hours of gameplay. I'm not exactly planning on winning any huge OU tournaments with this (not that I wouldn't be willing to participate). I'm more interested in being able to wallop my friends and do well on random wifi matchups. I would greatly appreciate any feedback/constructive criticism you can offer me.

I also have a Paraflincher togekiss I was originally going to fill scrafty's spot with, but ultimately I think scrafty is a better fit since he can work well in and out of trick room and togekiss is more of a panic button for when I run out of trick rooms but if you guys think that would work better, please speak up.

Thanks in advance for your feedback! I look forward to hearing from the community!

 

[Wispy Willow]

Why are you using Machamp on this team when it has high speed? If you want a Fighting type that isn't Scrafty you could use Conceldur. Also if you want an offeceive Ferrothorn set (works best in doubles)

Ferrothorn (M)
Item: Occa/Chople berry
EVs: unspecified
Gyro ball
Power whip
Payback
Curse

Explanation: (Starts the battle with a TRing ally) Turn 1: Ferrothorn uses Curse to raise its Atk, Def and lower its Speed while its ally uses Trick room. Turn two: 'Thorn uses (idealy) Gyro ball (powered up by its raised Atk and lowered Speed). Otherwise it uses Power whip (or Payback if TR fails.) I also use a Chandalure with Flash fire to switch out from a Fire/Fighting attack ans strike back HARD with a Heat wave under Trick room conditions. Also I suggest you have at least 3 TRers because you don't want the Room to peter out.

Hope that helped

 

[LadyScathach]

If you're going to attempt to run an OU Trick Room team, Alzor is right; you probably need a third Trick Room setter. Of course, your comment for Scrafty's Fake Out makes me think that this is more of a VGC team, so now I'm just confused. If it's VGC, you should be fine with two setters.

Reuniclus
If your playing OU, do NOT run Thunder. Focus Blast provides better coverage, but I'd honestly run Shadow Ball as it's the more reliable hit and forces out those pesky Ghosts (and opposing Psychics). If you're playing VGC doubles, Thunder is fine.

Ferrothorn
Explosion is terrible in Gen V because it no longer halves defense. Stick Gyro Ball on there instead; with STAB and it's low speed, they do about the same damage (assuming a neutral hit). I'd also not suggest running Iron Defense on a max Def Ferrothorn. Maybe invest those Def EV's into SpD and keep Iron Defense? Or put something useful on like Spikes or Leech Seed.

The second Ferrothorn is more balanced, so I'd almost suggest it over the first, but you really need to get rid of the Ingrain. It's a terrible move. If you want to restore more HP, I suggest giving it Lefties and replacing Ingrain with Protect. Leech Seed and Leftovers work wonders.

Escavalier
Looks fine, though I'd suggest No Guard over Shell Armor because Megahorn's accuracy is shaky.

Machamp
Looks fine.

Slowking
I'd personally run the Calm Mind set over the Nasty Plot one, but if the Nasty Plot works for you, don't change it.

Scrafty
Sassy nature isn't viable. Otherwise it looks good.

Overall
If this is a singles team, you must get a spinner. If not, you can live without one. Either way, you need a revenge killer. I realize that you will outspeed with Trick Room up, but it only lasts for five turns. If you don't want to invest in a pokemon with speed investment, I suggest Scizor or Conkeldurr. Both have STAB priority and low speed.

 

[CapnJoe]

Thank you both for your input.

@alzor: I'm not sure what you mean about machamp having a high speed. I think base 55 is pretty low. he's slower than scrafty anyway. I hadn't thought it necessary to have a third TR fella, but two people say I should look into it, so I will. I absolutely love chandelure, but do you think it's slow enough for trick room? base 80 speed seems sorta high.
Also, while I do like your ferrothorn suggestion, I kinda feel like I need some entry hazards so it kinda takes away what he's there for. Not that I don't appreciate the thorough suggestion.

@lady scathatch: Very thorough. thank you. I built this team for OU, but I use it for VGC too when I get the chance. Why do you say thunder is no good for OU? I thought it would be good for the team's overall coverage but I must be missing something. Shadow ball does seem like a good option though. I don't have any other ghost type attacks.
For that second ferrothorn, would you recommend I replace ingrain with stealth rock? I was thinking of dropping ingrain anyway. I appreciate you confirming my suspicion.
So sassy's no good, hm? Brave would be better? Easy enough.
What would you suggest as a spinner? Replace ferrothorn with forretress maybe?
Thanks again. Really good input.

General question to the both of you and anyone else that cares to offer input: Wouldn't adding a third trick roomer overload my dark/ghost weaknesses? IIRC, everything with TR is psychic or ghost type, right? The idea of having three pokes that are weak for dark/ghost kinda scares me. Is this something I should just get over? Like I said, I am a HUGE fan of chandelure, just not sure this is the right team for it. Also, what would I drop?

 

[LadyScathach]

OU is no stranger to perma-rain, but I'd really try not to run it. The 70% accuracy is shaky outside of rain and rain isn't as common as you think it is. Plus sun lowers Thunder's accuracy to something pitifully low (which I can't pull of the top of my head).

As for the second Ferrothorn, I'd honestly suggest Protect over Ingrain. Besides, you already have Stealth on that set... Do you mean Spikes?

As for the spinner, I'd either suggest Donphan or Forretress depending on what you want to remove to make space for it.

A third setter would accentuate a dark/ghost weakness, but there's not too much you can do about that. Though maybe if you were to make Slowking defensive or switch it with Eviolite Slowbro, you could bolster the defense enough to keep it alive for TR setting. Otherwise, you'll probably want to look into a non psychic/ghost TR setter. Off the top of my head, I can think of Whimsicott and Smeragle though I'm not sure how well they do in the OU metagame as TR setters.

 

[CapnJoe]

whoops. my bad. The second ferrothorn has spikes. the first one has stealth rock. so I was thinking something along the lines of spikes/stealth rock/leech seed/power whip on that second one. sorry for the confusion. Though, if I end up dropping him for forretress or donphan to get a spinner that can do the same job, I guess it wouldn't really matter.

and I'd forgotten about the sun lowering thunder's accuracy. Thanks for pointing that out. I'ma switch it to shadow ball.

I had also thought of bringing in a claydol to fill that spot. it can do stealth rock, TR, and screens if i decide that's necessary. still doesn't help the ghost/dark weakness, but it does kill two bird with one stone and helps my fire weakness problem a bit. though I'm not a fan of the base 75 speed on it.

or I could come up with something to drop and bring in porygon2. only 50 base speed, really good bulk, and it's not gonna make me cry when there's a bunch of ghost/dark attacks on the other team.

 

[Wispy Willow]

@alzor: I'm not sure what you mean about machamp having a high speed. I think base 55 is pretty low. he's slower than scrafty anyway.

Oh, I thought that it did. Sorry.

Anyway:a TRer not weak to Dark/Ghost is Bronzong(not sure who you could drop)

 

[Elia]

I absolutely love using Trick Room teams. I used to run one for some time, and it did pretty well on the competitive side, so I can safely say that I have quite a bit of experience with Trick Room. That being said, I really like your team, but I think it could improve a lot if you actually focused more on its strengths.
l explain myself better.

The main advantage of using Trick Room is having really bulky and powerful pokemons which only weakness is their awful speed; said pokemons can, generally, take hits very well (even super effective ones) and fight back hard. In Trick Room, however, they'll have to tank only a hit while setting up the room: after this, you have pretty much 4 turns of destructions to use at your advantage, since most pokemons in the current metagame are really fast and insanely powerful, but also kinda frail!
However, since 4 turns are much less that you'd think, you should try and abuse them as much as possible, hitting as hard as you can: it's a very offensive and "fast" strategy!

That is why, in my opinion, you shouldn't really have dedicated walls in your team: those pokemons can't really give too much of a punch at the opponent and they slow down your strategy. Also, I think that Choice Band is a bad idea in Trick Room, because:
1) It needs a switch, that waste one of your precious turns
2) If your opponent switches to a counter/something that resist it, you have wasted another tunr, and you'll have to switch out again.

That being said, I like the team! Keep it up with the Trick Room!