Da fudge? Agatha in Viridian?!

[Dark Chromium Dragonite]

...man, I really am out of it.

Reading on a Wikipedia article regarding Gengar, I noticed that Agatha of the Elite Four apparently took control of the Viridian City Gym for a while.

Fill me in, people. I though Ash went directly from the Silver Conference into the Honen Region, and I'm surprised that after hundreds of thousands of millions of battles, Ash is still unable to beat an Elite Four member. Ugh! What a loser.

 

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Fill me in, people. I though Ash went directly from the Silver Conference into the Honen Region,

He went from Hoenn back to Kanto, though, and that's where he met Agatha.

Why Giovanni ceased being the GL remains to be seen.

 

[Dark Chromium Dragonite]

Note says he was on a "mission". As the Team Rocket Boss, I wouldn't be surprised, but this just adds fuel to the fire of people who think Giovanni is Ash's father. >.>;

 

[Roses Ablaze]

...man, I really am out of it.

Reading on a Wikipedia article regarding Gengar, I noticed that Agatha of the Elite Four apparently took control of the Viridian City Gym for a while.

Fill me in, people. I though Ash went directly from the Silver Conference into the Honen Region, and I'm surprised that after hundreds of thousands of millions of battles, Ash is still unable to beat an Elite Four member. Ugh! What a loser.

Jesus, they're supposed to be the best trainers in the entire world and you think a 10-year-old ought to be able to beat them? >_< It's not exactly a task everyone can accomplish in the anime.

 

[FabuVinny]

The Elite Four are very powerful. It would be unrealistic for Ash to be able to beat them yet, and Agatha was very impressed with how well he did do against her.

 

[Dark Chromium Dragonite]

Unrealistic? What about Team Rocket's constant survival of electric attacks? By now, Pikachu should have killed them with at least one instance of cardiac arrest. Such words are nonsense.

Years have past in the Pokemon Anime, assuredly from the sheer walking! At least one or two years would have passed if we count each episode as a day, and multiple days pass in many episodes. Ash is probably fourteen or fifteen by now, and Pikachu, after being used so frequently, should be level one friggin' hundred. Ten times over, I might add.

Seriously, all the elite four should get fudged up by Pikachu alone, nevermind Squirtle or Charizard.

 

[FabuVinny]

Agatha has been training for many, many years longer than Ash. Gengar would still be more powerful.

 

[Roses Ablaze]

Dude, it took them years to get into that position! Do you honestly expect any trainer with a few years of experience behind them to be able to defeat them? The anime is NOT the same as the games. In the games they were just good, but in the anime they're legendary.

 

[Dark Chromium Dragonite]

Dude, it took them years to get into that position! Do you honestly expect any trainer with a few years of experience behind them to be able to defeat them? The anime is NOT the same as the games. In the games they were just good, but in the anime they're legendary.

You're actually trying to argue against me by using the Anime as a reference point? Obviously, the Anime itself is non-sensical and a clear example of jumping the shark, but come ON.

How can Ash lose every single Pokemon League Tourney, but win in Orange by his "skill"? Time isn't relative in Pokemon, much like how attacks are clearly exaggerated. You can't argue a traditionally realist position (time=experience) in a world where a kid's first pokemon is powerful enough to destroy a building, but cannot do so despite constant fighting years later.

 

[Roses Ablaze]

Mind explaining to me why I SHOULDN'T use the anime as a reference when clearly an anime character is what is being discussed?

...you know what? This belongs in the anime section, now that I think about it, since it only has relevance to anime events. *moves*

 

[Cybersai]

WTF. The Elite 4 are the strongest trainers in the world, and although Ash has improved greatly, he's still no match for them.

If Ash can't even win a normal league, why would he be able to beat an Elite 4 member?

 

[pkmn Trainer Zach]

Ash did exceptionally well against Harrison in Johto, and the only reason Ash placed 16th in the Indigo league was because of his Charizard. In the Orange Islands, I believe, he really starts to get the hang of things. His Charizard obeys him, and Squirtle learned Hydro Pump. He caught a Lapras and a Snorlax, both powerful Pokémon. The fact that he beat Drake was not at all suprising to me. He had a team of Pokémon he'd been using since season the Indigo league, with the exception of Lapras and Snorlax (though I believe he actually used Tauros against Drake).

Ash did not defeat Agatha because she was a member of the Elite Four, for one thing, and has had decades more experience. As someone said earlier, she's legendary. Add the fact that he used his most recently caught Pokémon against her that have not had as much experience as say Charizard or Squirtle or even Bulbasaur. You also have to remember that in the Anime, Ghost Pokémon have advantages over most Pokémon, as they tend to disapear, use sneak attacks, are able to dodge much easier, fly, and whatnot. I'd say Ash is probably one of the best trainers out there in the Anime.

I should probably attribute more to Agatha before I post, though. It is a bit confusing why she was the one to take over the Viridian City Gym. I'm sure she's just a temp there until Giovanni comes back. I mean, in the games he was never there anyway.

I really like Agatha. In FR/LG, when you enter her room in the Indigo Plateau, the Pokémon Tower music starts, and its a bit creepy. I don't know exactly why she trains Ghost Pokémon, but you get the feeling that she's no...ordinary person. Like she's bonded with the supernatural somehow over her years, or something...

 

[Jukain]

It sounds to me like your problem is with the anime itself, and not this.

I will agree it would not be realistic for Ash to be able to defeat Agatha, an elite, and one of the most powerful elites at that. However, it will be hard to explain if Ash gets beaten by anything once he wins against the Frontier Brains, because they're supposedly tougher than the elites, or at least in the games they are. So far, Ash has won against all the Brains he has faced on the first try, so I very much doubt that this is the case. Note that Ash does not face Noland until several episodes after this one.

Edit: Don't you find it funny that more than four elites have appeared in the anime? This supports my theory of more than one E4 and thus why I refer to them only as elites.

 

[FabuVinny]

Agatha was looking after the Gym until a new leader could be found.

In the case of the Orange League, Ash could only knock out Gengar by hitting its attack with his own attack. This made Lapras faint as well as Gengar.

In the anime, the Frontier Brains are weaker than the Elite Four, though they are still stronger than any Gym Leader.

 

[Dark Chromium Dragonite]

Mind explaining to me why I SHOULDN'T use the anime as a reference when clearly an anime character is what is being discussed?

There are inconsitencies, cycles, and frequent deus ex machina employed. That's why. I'd personally use the game as canon, followed by the Anime, and lastly by the manga.

WTF. The Elite 4 are the strongest trainers in the world, and although Ash has improved greatly, he's still no match for them.

What the fudge right back at you. I wasn't aware Ash had newbie Pokemon at the time. This illustrates that Ash is indeed an extremely powerful trainer; Squirtle, Bulbasaur, and Pikachu, despite being base Pokemon, are fully capable of fighting strong enemies. Did Ash put up a good fight? If so, even with newbie pokemon, what does that say about his skill level as a trainer?

 

[Dark Chromium Dragonite]

Mind explaining to me why I SHOULDN'T use the anime as a reference when clearly an anime character is what is being discussed?

There are inconsitencies, cycles, and frequent deus ex machina employed. That's why. I'd personally use the game as canon, followed by the Anime, and lastly by the manga.

WTF. The Elite 4 are the strongest trainers in the world, and although Ash has improved greatly, he's still no match for them.

What the fudge right back at you. I wasn't aware Ash had newbie Pokemon at the time. This illustrates that Ash is indeed an extremely powerful trainer; Squirtle, Bulbasaur, and Pikachu, despite being base Pokemon, are fully capable of fighitng strong enemies. Did Ash put up a good fight? If so, even with newbie pokemon, what does that say about his skill level as a trainer?

Edit: No, he didn't. It was a slaughter, even for Pikachu, who seems to have power fluctuations depending on the intensity of a battle. Gods. Does Pikachu know 'Zap Cannon'? I can't remember.

 

[Doctor Oak]

What ARE you rabbitting about?

When Ash challenged Agatha his team was:

Pikachu
Grovyle
Swellow
Glalie
Torkoal
Corphish

Only two of those are base Pokemon and one of those two doesn't even evolve.

I'd personally use the game as canon, followed by the Anime, and lastly by the manga.

All three are of their own canon. NONE of them are meant to be interchangable. Until you take that into account it is impossible to take any view of the anime in it's own rights as a different concept of the world of Pokemon. A world where stats and levels mean sod all. Even types can be flaunted easily just by using some non-linear (Read: Game Program) thinking, like using a thunderbolt in a Rhydon's mouth to affect it even though it's a Ground type - 'cause the outer shell that causes Electric Attacks to fail can't protect it.

 

[doodler243]

Unrealistic? What about Team Rocket's constant survival of electric attacks? By now, Pikachu should have killed them with at least one instance of cardiac arrest. Such words are nonsense.

Years have past in the Pokemon Anime, assuredly from the sheer walking! At least one or two years would have passed if we count each episode as a day, and multiple days pass in many episodes. Ash is probably fourteen or fifteen by now, and Pikachu, after being used so frequently, should be level one friggin' hundred. Ten times over, I might add.

Seriously, all the elite four should get fudged up by Pikachu alone, nevermind Squirtle or Charizard.

I agree especially with the electicution and ash's pokemon ahould be much stronger by now so to a certain degree if they want to be realistic they can't pick and choose on what plain they wannna be on n not. Another thing is how they always blast team rocket off and damage people's gym's and houses and not one complains about fixing it. But when yanma was going around breaking glass with it's sonic boom everyone complained.

 

[Misty]

People obviously are not aware of the concept of "suspending disbelief". They're cartoons, people.

 

[FabuVinny]

Team Rocket have gained an immunity, anyway.