Dawn's Pokemon team, has anyone become disappointed?

[Cybersai]

This thread is not about Ambipom's fate, but about the way Dawn's team has been handled in general.

Has anyone else become disappointed with the way the writers handled Dawn's team as DP progressed? I remember when DP first started Piplup was handled well and stayed in its ball, Buneary and Pachi were nice cute Pokemon, and I was fine with the Buizel/Aipom trade back then.

Then at some point, the writers decided to mimic Ash/Pikachu with Dawn/Piplup, and because of that Piplup wound up getting far more screentime than her other Pokemon. We knew back then Piplup would never evolve, and one of the recent eps confirmed it. So its safe to say Piplup will stay as-is for Dawn's entire run as a main character.

At this point, I doubt Buneary will evolve, and Pachirisu can't. I very much like Mamoswine, even if its previous forms didn't really do anything. Ambipom's fate is really unfortunate, but its always like the writers to make a boneheaded decision now and then.

But my bigger problem is Dawn was building up a great team for the Grand Festival, and it seems like she's getting royally screwed over by the writers. Mamoswine has still never been used in a Contest yet, Piplup won't be in its second staga ala Combusken, and Buneary/Pachirisu are just the usual cute coordinator Pokemon.

I have to say, I've become really disappointed with what the writers have done with Dawn's team. I also somewhat hoped the writers would break away from the "girls get cute Pokemon" stereotype that they had going for awhile, but now we can see that's not going to be the case.

Thoughts? And please keep it civil.

 

[Luxio2k8]

I think that Ambipom leaving in the most recent Japanese episode is just proof that the writers don't know how to handle Dawn's team. I mean even when Ambipom was on Dawn's team, it barely even showed up with the exception of the occasional contest episode. When Pachirisu first debuted, it seemed like it would play the role of Dawn's uber-cute Pokémon ala May's Skitty, but it seems like Pachirisu is barely even remembered anymore.

I never thought that Buneary would evolve anyway, but at least it's given screen-time every few episodes lately. I don't know. . .I like Dawn, but the handling of her team has sadly been very poor for some time now.

 

[Piplup]

I don't see how evolution has anything to do with anything, you should know by now Scott that evolution is NOT necessary to get stronger...

I love all of Dawn's Pokémon - each had a personality/development and they're all just cute (well... cool is better for Mamo XD)
The complaining about Pip is just ridiculous, it's great and actually is much more entertaining than Pikachu (and this comes from me who my favorites are the Pika line...)

And Ambi has a chance to return to the GF, we won't know until it happens...
I don't see any reason why Pip or Bunny should evolve and since even Bunny is treated now as a "star" (second after Pip) I doubt it'll ever evolve
All I think should happen is Bunny to learn a new attack and Pachi getting at least one more episode that focus on it
Except of that's her team is perfect... could be better with Ambi but at least that ep turned out good and gave us hope it'll return to help or something

 

[Rosakai]

Well, they DID break the cute trend with Mamoswine. And with Ambipom gone now, Mamoswine will probably take over as Dawn's main powerhouse. But other than that, yeah, I don't think Dawn's team is all that great right now.

She needs to get some new captures and some evolutions; that's what I'd like to see.

I don't see what the writers have against the girls owning six Pokemon anyway. Let Dawn have six. The universe won't implode.

 

[Piplup]

I don't see what the writers have against the girls owning six Pokemon anyway. Let Dawn have six. The universe won't implode.

Misty was less important than May/Dawn and she had 6 in Johto: Staryu, Goldeen, Psyduck, Togepi, Politoed, Corsola

But I'll never understand why people want Dawn to have 6 at the same time
People already complain how some are neglected compared to others - giving her even more Pokémon would only make this worst
She's allright with 4 and maximum 5
With 5 Contests wins a saga it only makes sense to not give her a whole team
Wait for next saga for new Pokémon
I think for this saga she's done
The most I can think of happening is Dawn getting Chikorita the day GSC remakes are released (like how May got Bulba the day FRLG were relased) but barely use it in Sinnoh but then begin to use it next saga in Johto (like May with Munch)

 

[Kairyu]

Dawn's current team is an utter disaster.

With Etebossu gone, 3/4 (75%!!!) of her team is pure unevolved cutesy pokemon, and that's just terrible. I don't have anything personal against cutesy ones, but 3/4 is just too much. I don't want 75% of her battles to be like in DP114, cutesy pokemon vs powerhouse pokemon (Pachirisu vs Gabite). It just gets so unbelievable and thus boring in the end.

I really hope she captures something with spunk next time. A fighting type would be awesome, so she can regain the melee combat style Etebossu had. Mamoswine just ain't enough.

 

[Piplup]

It just gets so unbelievable and thus boring in the end.

What's unbelieveable and boring is how fans can watch a show for over 10 years and still can't understand one of the most important things in this show which is also kinda right in real life - evolution (or size) is NOT necessarily making one stronger
Cute, little, unevolved Pokémon can beat ugly/cool, big, evolved Pokémon and there's nothing not logical in this at all (it's actually very logical usually since littles can be faster, dodge easily and do some things biggers can't) not to mention it's not boring at all since a lot of these battles have been great (both the Pikachu/Raichu battles, the Piplup/Prinplup battle...)

 

[LightningKimba]

What's unbelieveable and boring is how fans can watch a show for over 10 years and still can't understand one of the most important things in this show which is also kinda right in real life - evolution (or size) is NOT necessarily making one stronger
Cute, little, unevolved Pokémon can beat ugly/cool, big, evolved Pokémon and there's nothing not logical in this at all (it's actually very logical usually since littles can be faster, dodge easily and do some things biggers can't) not to mention it's not boring at all since a lot of these battles have been great (both the Pikachu/Raichu battles, the Piplup/Prinplup battle...)

Some people, Piplup, however think that battles that pit the cutesy against the "uglies" are boring. It's their opinion and preference, and there's little you can do than, well, attempt to "sway" them to your side.

I mean, the David and Goliath thing was one thing. Little kid becomes king after pretty much owning a large giant.

These days, it's gotten to the point where those events happened quite often, so I could see from Kairyu's perspective on how those battles will eventually turn out stale and dull.

That's not my opinion myself, just my opinion on how this little snippet came about.

Now, back on-topic... All bias aside (And yes, I do have a severe amount of bias, so bare with me), Dawn seems to only appear on the anime to appeal to the stereotypical girls of today. Is that bad? That's for other's opinions to tell them.

Now, as a stereotype, would it not be "right" for her to own pokemon that would stereotypically appeal to the same girls they are trying to appeal? Her team was "supposed" to appeal to those girls, and get in the anime, like how Ash captures the stereotypical "cool" pokemon.

Ambipom's gone, Mamoswine's the only fully evolved pokemon. Is that seriously bad?

And we have the cutesy, appealing pokemon. According to Piplup, evolution doesn't matter. But, in the end, isn't evolution just a will for more power that's deep seated in them?

By that logic, all of Dawn's pokemon seem happy with their forms, and want to be a "Peter Pan", similar to Bulbasaur, albeit the special episode.

Now, with my bias and opinions brought in, Dawn's a pretty generic character; She's optimistic, slightly on the dense side, and only uses pokemon for their looks. I do see it that she's maturing, but... She simply reminds me of a stale Barbie doll.

So.. The short version: Dawn's team's needs a good shape-up before the Grand Festival. Maybe her lesbo friendly rival Zoey could give her a few pointers, or maybe that Leafeon that's being speculated in the SPPf will be hers? So far, I really don't like Dawn's team. At this point, May had a much more developed them. Alas, Dawn's still a newbie...

 

[Kairyu]

What's unbelieveable and boring is how fans can watch a show for over 10 years and still can't understand one of the most important things in this show which is also kinda right in real life - evolution (or size) is NOT necessarily making one stronger
Cute, little, unevolved Pokémon can beat ugly/cool, big, evolved Pokémon and there's nothing not logical in this at all (it's actually very logical usually since littles can be faster, dodge easily and do some things biggers can't) not to mention it's not boring at all since a lot of these battles have been great (both the Pikachu/Raichu battles, the Piplup/Prinplup battle...)

I know... I'm ok with small pokemon and how they can win versus big ones... My point was that I don't wanna sit through "small vs big" 75% of the time she battles (let's face it: most of her opponents will be bigger/evolved ones). It gets boring (and unbelievable) after a while... >_>

 

[Piplup]

I know... I'm ok with small pokemon and how they can win versus big ones... My point was that I don't wanna sit through "small vs big" 75% of the time she battles (let's face it: most of her opponents will be bigger/evolved ones). It gets boring (and unbelievable) after a while... >_>

I guess that in this case, you should simply focus on Ash then... that's exactly what the writers are trying to do - we have male star with Pokémon and plot aimed more at boys and a female star with Pokémon and plot aimed more at girls
It won't change, so you better get used to it...
May was really the same Pokémon wise during her first saga:
- Torchic->Combusken (both are cute)
- Wurmple->Silcoon->Beautifly (cute/beautiful/girly)
- Skitty (cute/girly)
- Bulbasaur (cute/girly, at least this specific one)
Let's not count Munch who was barely there in Hoenn, it's more of BF Poké
So May had 4 Poké, one fully evolved and one second form of three
Compared to Dawn:
- Piplup (cute) = Bulbasaur (could evolve twice but didn't, I'm talking about Hoenn only, not later for May's team)
- Buneary (cute/girly) = Skitty (could evolve once but didn't)
- Pachirisu (cute) = Torchic/Combusken (the only different is Pachi can't evolve but both were neglected compared to others)
- Mamoswine (cool, a difference!) = Beautifly (fully evolved, and actually looks alot bigger/cooler/"boyish" than Beautifly)
EDIT: Oh, Ambi is a better comparation to Torchic->Combusken evolution wise, but it's not really counted unless it'll return to the GF
And the conclusion is:
May - 4 Pokémon: 2 unevolved, 1 second form, 1 fully evolved
Dawn - 4 Poké (5 if Ambi return) 3 unevolved, 1 fully evolved (and 1 second/full if Ambi return)
Not as huge difference as people make it

 

[Grave-E]

I feel that practically everything about the character is disappointing, her team included. Pokemon's always been about one step forward, one step back however, and given that Ash's team has, for the most part, been treated fairly well, I'm not too worried about the trade-off.

Mimirol's infatuation with Pikachu has never really impressed me, which is irritating since it's something I believe they could get a lot of mileage out of. That's for both humor's sake and actual character development. Winking and blushing isn't entertaining or cute after you've seen it a handful of times. Giving it that ugly vest thing seems to be their answer to having it stand out a little more as of late, but that doesn't do anything for me personally. Mimirol also suffers from having a, frankly, abysmal set of moves at her disposal. Ice Beam is painfully boring, and with every other pokemon able to jump significantly high into the air, Bounce is just redundant.

Pachirisu is almost as bad in terms of battling, though it has a genuinely fun personality to make up for it. Unfortunately, it's seldom seen, so praising it for something like that seems rather pointless in the long run.

And while Mammoo is kickarse and will eventually do something, the fact that's it's never actually done anything up to this point is rather pitiful. Why, exactly, didn't we see it do anything as a Urimoo? Why haven't we seen Hikari even so much as attempt to train it?

And while I am somewhat fond of the the character, the over-saturation of Pochama does nothing but hinder this team's potential.

 

[Musashi]

Why haven't we seen Hikari even so much as attempt to train it?

She tried, but it keeps acting like it doesn't want to do Contests. I think the whole thing is pretty amusing and I like it. It's great that Manmoo hasn't become 100% loyal.

People are way to hard on Hikari and her pokemon. I don't see this backwards character development, or what the big deal is with Pochama. Why hasn't everyone gotten over the fact that it's the second mascot yet? It hasn't really been all that bad lately.

I'm not sure Mimirol can evolve since Hikari has that everstone, but it wouldn't until the end anyway because of Pikachu. I also happen to like that vest.

Pachirisu needs more going for it though. Hopefully it'll get some focus next.

Except for Eteboth I don't see a big problem here. No one's team is handled perfectly.

 

[Piplup]

She tried, but it keeps acting like it doesn't want to do Contests. I think the whole thing is pretty amusing and I like it. It's great that Manmoo hasn't become 100% loyal.

Yeah, Mamo just sit there and completely ignores Dawn, what people want her to do? Dawn did notice Mamo's growing interest in Contest so she knows it's just a matter of time...

People are way to hard on Hikari and her pokemon.

Which I seriously can't understand - Dawn and her Pokémon are all great characters!

what the big deal is with Pochama. Why hasn't everyone gotten over the fact that it's the second mascot yet? It hasn't really been all that bad lately.

It's actually much more entertaining than Pikachu... with all my love for Pika, I can't see how anyone can even try to deny this

I'm not sure Mimirol can evolve since Hikari has that everstone,

I doubt all of Dawn's Poké won't be able to evolve just because she has the stone with her
I think she got it simply so next time Pip will begin to evolve, she'll use the stone on it to stop the evolution and prevent its pain of trying to stop it itself

but it wouldn't until the end anyway because of Pikachu.

It's also a second-to-Pip on Dawn's team... kind of a secondary mascot? I think...

I also happen to like that vest.

Me too

Pachirisu needs more going for it though. Hopefully it'll get some focus next.

At least it got the Akebi Contest ep...

Except for Eteboth I don't see a big problem here. No one's team is handled perfectly.

I guess at least we can hope for it to return...

 

[Cybersai]

Hm, I do like Dawn's Pokemon, but the fact that Sinnoh was stretched out doesn't help matters. By AG127 Ash was competing against Morrison in the Hoenn league, and in DP127 we're at the 7th Gym.

Because of this, captures have been slowed and limited. I don't mind Dawn having only 4 or 5 Pokemon, but after 130 episodes, the same Pokemon get a bit stale.

I am half-expecting Dawn to leave Buneary/Pachirisu with her mother during the filler arc, even if Buneary has a crush.

 

[Piplup]

Hm, I do like Dawn's Pokemon, but the fact that Sinnoh was stretched out doesn't help matters. By AG127 Ash was competing against Morrison in the Hoenn league, and in DP127 we're at the 7th Gym.

Because of this, captures have been slowed and limited. I don't mind Dawn having only 4 or 5 Pokemon, but after 130 episodes, the same Pokemon get a bit stale.

Eh... what? Stop randomly bring up your complaints when they're not relevant at all
The Sinnoh team isn't on the team longer than the AG team was (especially when some of AG's team had the whole of AG to them = almost 200 episodes, and not just the Hoenn part)
And I can't see how the AG ones were better... they're all good really...

I am half-expecting Dawn to leave Buneary/Pachirisu with her mother during the filler arc, even if Buneary has a crush.

Sadly I think Pachi is the more likely to leave since Bunny is second-to-Pip
This crush thing is really interesting in case the Bunny will have to leave Pika (in either case: Dawn sending it somewhere, it leaving Dawn, Dawn leaving Ash, or whatever) what would it do? in case of Dawn leaving Ash (which I sure hope won't happen) I guess Dawn will give it the choise of staying with Ash/Pikachu - what would it choose in such case? and in case of Dawn wanting to send home/Oak/Rowan/whatever some Poké to make place for new ones, how would she do it without hurting Bunny which Dawn sure won't want to do?

 

[Cybersai]

The Sinnoh team isn't on the team longer than the AG team was

I meant because the region is stretched out, there are less captures in the same period of time. Most of Dawn's team has been here for over 100 episodes now, except for Mamoswine of course.

Sadly I think Pachi is the more likely to leave since Bunny is second-to-Pip
This crush thing is really interesting in case the Bunny will have to leave Pika (in either case: Dawn sending it somewhere, it leaving Dawn, Dawn leaving Ash, or whatever) what would it do?

They'll probably do what they did with Bayleef, the crush will be ignored and it'll be more or less forgotten except for brief visits. I don't see Buneary/Pachi staying for the next arc, the writers need room for new Pokemon and it seems like they don't want her to have more than 4 or 5 at once.

 

[Piplup]

I meant because the region is stretched out, there are less captures in the same period of time. Most of Dawn's team has been here for over 100 episodes now, except for Mamoswine of course.

Swellow/Corphish/Sceptile were with Ash longer than Dawn's Poké
And Corphish even didn't get a "refresh" with evolution
I think as long as they're all good characters with personality and character development - there shouldn't be a problem

They'll probably do what they did with Bayleef, the crush will be ignored and it'll be more or less forgotten except for brief visits.

I still think people exggerated with Bayleef, it's not IN LOVE with Ash, it's just crazy about him because it saved it as a Chiko in its capture ep
And I think the writers now pay attention more to these things...

I don't see Buneary/Pachi staying for the next arc, the writers need room for new Pokemon and it seems like they don't want her to have more than 4 or 5 at once.

New Poké? Gen 5 is too far than think about it
I really think Chiko and a possible return of Ambi is more than enough for Dawn... at most, she'll get one more Johto Poké "instead" of Pachi (or Bunny) who will be sent to Johanna
I don't think both Pachi and Bunny will go... only one of them

 

[Queen Cynthia]

As long as thay handle Ash as perfectly as he is being dealt with at the moment, I'll be perfectly fine!

Don't get me wrong: Dawn is essential for D/P and of all of Ash's female companions so far I undoubtedly like Dawn best! Sinnoh wouldn't be Sinnoh without her.
However, important though she may be, she's NOT the main character, but "only" Ash's most influential companion.

So, substituting a Pokemon of hers really is no big deal, but a welcome change, as long as, and I've already said it before, Ash, the one and only hero and the center of attention, is not messed up.

 

[Piplup]

she's NOT the main character,
Ash, the one and only hero and the center of attention

This official text on the DP OPs in the original Japanese version would like a talk with you

Not to mention: CD covers, Movie DVD covers, the current OP, the fact they're constantly coupled together like in DP29, the fact they treat Ash and Dawn as equals in the show itself, even in movies-especially movie 10, the fact Pip is shown as equal mascot to Pika and so on... but of course you'll just ignore all that stuff despite the fact this text from the OP clearly says this is "Ash and Dawn's story" (before DP it only said "Ash", they found Dawn important enough to change an almost 10 years old text)

 

[pikachu200]

Yes I am disappointed #1 her Piplup hasn't evolved yet! #2 Her pokemon are still cute and cuddly #3 She has a lame Pachirisu! #4 She doesn't have a Fire type because they burn all opponents!!