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De-evolution, who wants to see it?

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Xenidal

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We've seen De-evolution Spray in the card game (along with a few attacks which cause de-evolution), it was in some of the manga, and it is even mentioned in the game canon in Slowbro's Pokédex entry.

Who wants to see it in-game?

Personally I do... one of the main things I hate about evolution is the fact that it is permanent.
 
Maybe you might want to change the weightness? There are some moves that are stronger the more the pokemon weighs, like Grass knot. Most pokemon gain weight upon evolving, so I think de-evolving could be used for those purposes...

Other than
That, I can only think of ability changes..., like, some have different abilities upon evolving and de-evolving.
 
The only purpose that I can see with de-evolving is so you can get a lower stage Pokemon that knows a move that only its evolved forms can learn. But even then, the majority of lower stage Pokemon can learn the same moves as their evolved forms. I don't see much a point.
 
dannyjenn said:
We've seen De-evolution Spray in the card game (along with a few attacks which cause de-evolution), it was in some of the manga, and it is even mentioned in the game canon in Slowbro's Pokédex entry.

Who wants to see it in-game?

Personally I do... one of the main things I hate about evolution is the fact that it is permanent.
Click to expand...

De-evolving a Pokemon is rather pointless. Pokemon evolution is like an aging process, so there's no real reason for that to occur as you can't reverse age. And since we are given the ability to prevent the evolution before it occurs through the B-button and the Everstone, there's no reason to change it once it happens.
 
the entire concept of Pokemon is to train and to capture Pokemon, once done so, you are their with your partner to grow stronger through battling. having said that its rather pointless to do so. why on earth would you want to do it? there is literally no benefit to it other than its cool looking, and honestly your mileage may vary on that as well.

now don't get me wrong i think it might work in a different game (spinoff) away from the original game canon, and presented as a plot point, but not here.

tldr: leave it alone, there are no benefits to adding something like this.
 
Hmm, those are some good points.

If anyone's wondering, here're some advantages to it:
- First, easier Pokédex completion for stuff like Eevee. Instead of catching 7 Eevees you just catch one, evolve it, de-evolve it, evolve it into a different one, etc. (But if de-evolution were possible, they'd need to somehow fix the moveset... it wouldn't make much sense for a Vaporeon to know Flamethrower and Thunderbolt. Perhaps instead of a De-evolution Spray, it could be more like you hand a Pokémon over to a scientist in a lab who de-evolves it for you, and he will only take it if it only knows moves that its pre-evolution can learn).
- Second, weight classes. Some games have had cups with weight restrictions so you may want a lighter Pokémon. Some attacks are affected by weight (normally you'd want a heavier Pokémon... so why would you want to de-evolve? Some Pokémon like Kadabra are actually heavier than their evolutions).
- Third, cuter / cooler looking alternatives. It becomes weaker, but you may (depending on the Pokémon) like the pre-evolution more.
- Fourth, shinies... say you really want a particular shiny, say for whatever reason you want a shiny Magikarp. You could just de-evolve that red Gyarados. Okay, bad example, but my general point is you may find a shiny, but it may be in an evolved form that you might not personally like over it's pre-evolution (kind of like the previous reason)
- Fifth, Pokédex completion again, but this time instead of using it to get alternatives for branched evolution then you use it on already evolved captured Pokémon, or on Pokémon you've obtained in a trade. I find it annoying when I capture somehting in the wild only to find out that I don't have its pre-evolution, then have to go back out and find its pre-evolution in the wild (or else breed for it).
- Sixth, abilities... some pre-evolved forms may have a favourable ability that its evolution does not have.
- Seventh, trading purposes. Maybe you see a trade that you really want to do but it requires a Pokémon that you have already evolved. Instead of going through all the trouble of obtaining another one through breeding or in the wild, you could just de-evolve for it.
- Eighth, let's say you have something that's evolved, like a Flareon, and you get bored with it. You could just de-evolve and choose from one of the other 6.
- Nineth, moves... say you want to teach Quick Attack to a Raichu. Impossible. But you could de-evolve it and then teach Quick Attack to the Pikachu.
And probably other reasons as well. Sure, maybe those are stupid reasons, but my point is that there are some legitimate reasons why you'd want to de-evolve.

Evolution itself is not always favourable (which is why there's the press B feature and the Everstone), and de-evolution is canon so I didn't think the idea was too farfetched.
 
@dannyjenn;
I've played Digimon games, once the requirements are met (e.g., having a digiegg), the digimon can revert to any of their stages at any time. Pokémon often evolve from use of perishable items, or trade. Surely de-evolution would not be as casual as you make it--especially given that any in-universe hints of de-evolution demonstrate that it is achieved through very unnatural circumstances, and is seen as an unnatural occurrence.

Anyway, addressing your points in bold:
- First, easier Pokédex completion for stuff like Eevee. Instead of catching 7 Eevees you just catch one, evolve it, de-evolve it, evolve it into a different one, etc. (But if de-evolution were possible, they'd need to somehow fix the moveset... it wouldn't make much sense for a Vaporeon to know Flamethrower and Thunderbolt. Perhaps instead of a De-evolution Spray, it could be more like you hand a Pokémon over to a scientist in a lab who de-evolves it for you, and he will only take it if it only knows moves that its pre-evolution can learn).

The way you describe handling the moves is similar to GSC's Time Capsule, which was a big hassle. What you're suggesting actually creates a more complex scenario than breeding, which achieves the same effect you want here. Of course, they could *let* you keep those moves, but then it would place other Pokémon in the branch at a disadvantage since often, what differentiates them is their moveset.

- Second, weight classes. Some games have had cups with weight restrictions so you may want a lighter Pokémon. Some attacks are affected by weight (normally you'd want a heavier Pokémon... so why would you want to de-evolve? Some Pokémon like Kadabra are actually heavier than their evolutions).

The cups for weight restriction is just that--to restrict *those* Pokémon. There's already an alternative to that, just simply own a lower member of the species. As for moves affected by weight, de-evolution would not only affect weight, but also their stats and movepool, making the benefits of gaining/losing weight more costly, especially since we have items that can alter weight already, and the moves themselves that rely on weight are a minority. Yes, a Golurk would hypothetically take more damage from Grass Knot, but a Golett wouldn't have had a chance against a Pokémon that could take down Golurk in the first place.

- Third, cuter / cooler looking alternatives. It becomes weaker, but you may (depending on the Pokémon) like the pre-evolution more.

If it's an aesthetic reason, simply don't evolve. Why would you have evolved in the first place?

- Fourth, shinies... say you really want a particular shiny, say for whatever reason you want a shiny Magikarp. You could just de-evolve that red Gyarados. Okay, bad example, but my general point is you may find a shiny, but it may be in an evolved form that you might not personally like over it's pre-evolution (kind of like the previous reason)

This is a very situational explanation, and most wild Pokémon are at earlier base forms anyway, and given that post-game is pre-dominated by breeding, chances are, you'll be getting the base form.

- Fifth, Pokédex completion again, but this time instead of using it to get alternatives for branched evolution then you use it on already evolved captured Pokémon, or on Pokémon you've obtained in a trade. I find it annoying when I capture somehting in the wild only to find out that I don't have its pre-evolution, then have to go back out and find its pre-evolution in the wild (or else breed for it).

Again, situational. I don't enjoy training Pokemon I won't use to evolve, so if the encounter rate is high enough, I'd just catch their wild evolutions.

- Sixth, abilities... some pre-evolved forms may have a favourable ability that its evolution does not have.

Which begs the question, why did you evolve it in the first place? The evolution and pre-evolution will always have these abilities regardless of whether you evolved or de-evolved them. Things like Porygon2 for example, would be usable in contemporary tiers with its evolution. Why would you have to de-evolve Porygon-Z to get Porygon2? Shouldn't you have simply *not* evolved it in the first place?

- Seventh, trading purposes. Maybe you see a trade that you really want to do but it requires a Pokémon that you have already evolved. Instead of going through all the trouble of obtaining another one through breeding or in the wild, you could just de-evolve for it.

This is under the assumption that de-evolution would be easy, and given what you suggested in point 1, its not, and may even require multiple trips to a Move Deleter. Catching the Pokémon or even breeding may have been faster in this scenario.

- Eighth, let's say you have something that's evolved, like a Flareon, and you get bored with it. You could just de-evolve and choose from one of the other 6.

You could also just train new Pokémon. This doesn't really justify de-evolution. Being bored of a Pokemon normally means the person doesn't want the same one.

- Nineth, moves... say you want to teach Quick Attack to a Raichu. Impossible. But you could de-evolve it and then teach Quick Attack to the Pikachu.

Again, this begs the question, why did you evolve it so quickly? Assuming you could catch such Pokémon in the wild, why didn't you simply go for the lower stage?
Click to expand...

The main criticisms here is that all the points you brought up could simply have been achieved by either not evolving the Pokemon at all, or delaying evolution. There's really no situation that de-evolution would be exclusively beneficial.

dannyjenn said:
Evolution itself is not always favourable (which is why there's the press B feature and the Everstone), and de-evolution is canon so I didn't think the idea was too farfetched.
Click to expand...

Like I mentioned earlier, when evolution is not favourable, you simply don't do it. While de-evolution is canon, the spray is canon to the TCG and should not be confounded with main-series canon, and de-evolution in the main-series have been alluded to only a select species and in very unusual circumstances. Furthermore, these species that de-evolve do so because their evolutionary stages are dependent on a symbiotic relation between them and another Pokémon. Other Pokémon evolve through strengthening up, radiation from stones, or exposure to certain stimuli (e.g., held items, sunlight etc.) which result in a burst of energy that results in a massive change in form--and in situations where items are used, the items are consumed. It would be much harder to justify these de-evolutions. Pokémon run out of energy all the time (e.g., fainting) but do not revert to previous stages, suggesting that once that burst of energy changes their forms, it is permanent.

Digimon are able to do it because they are made of data. Presumably, going by this logic, Porygon's evolution can revert to previous stages if they downgrade, but what would be the point in implementing such a limited mechanic?
 
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I just thought of something.

Devolving would also kinda be like "cheating", because you can then use it to devolve a Pokemon who is part of a split evolution tree. Devolve a Flareon into Eevee, then get the rest of the Pokedex entries for all of the other eeveelutions by merely devolving the same Pokemon. That's no good either.
 
I wouldn't want that. I mean, what reason should I even return my evolved Pokemon to Its pre-evolved form? Doesn't make sense at all. Once they evolve, that's It. Other than that, just look for people on GTS for those pre-evolved Pokemon of the one you are looking for. Then get an everstone to prevent them from evolving.
 
I think it's a good idea. It would be really nifty for the reasons already mentioned.
 
I don't think de-evolving is necessary since you can breed Pokemon. Won't solve the shiny problem, though, but shiny Pokemon are supposed to be hard to get. Perhaps some certain event in the game where your Pokemon de-evolve and you have to beat a level with weaker Pokemon, but this would only be temporary de-evolution.
 
Maybe for a few Pokemon. It just seems stupid in my opinion, but I guess it would be interesting if there were a few Pokemon that could devolve somehow.
 
I don't think they should have de-evolution, mainly because I can't stand not fully evolved Pokemon (for the most part). On the other hand, de-leveling would be nice in certain circumstances.
 
ZACH ATTACK said:
I don't think they should have de-evolution, mainly because I can't stand not fully evolved Pokemon (for the most part). On the other hand, de-leveling would be nice in certain circumstances.
Click to expand...
What would be the point of de-leveling besides the multi-player modes with restrictions on level... trading where the person is requesting your Pokémon to be a specific level... or to end up with a Pokémon with an attack not possible at that level (although I don't know why you'd want that...)?
It would be nice if somehow you end up with a level 100 not fully-evolved Pokémon who evolves through level-up... but I doubt that would ever happen.
 
Evolution is permanent; once you evolve, you can't change back, so no, the concept of de-evolving is pointless because of how it doesn't reflect wildlife in reality.
 
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