Did anyone else not like the pacing of Ash's Sinnoh team?

[Cybersai]

Did anyone else not like how they saved all the evolutions for the tail-end of the saga? We're going to see literally nothing of Torterra/Infernape because they're leaving the series immediately after the league.

Why did the writers keep Turtwig and Chimchar in their base stages for so long? And don't say its because the first forms were marketable, or else Treecko and Torchic wouldn't have evolved halfway into Hoenn, and this is with an entire second arc afterward for them. Treecko evolved in the 60 something ep of Hoenn, whereas Turtwig took till the 100th episode. Torchic evolved around AG81, we didn't even get Monferno till DP150+ something.

Then there's the rushed stages. Why did Monferno get like 10 eps of screentime? Why couldn't Chimchar evolve earlier so we saw more of Monferno? Why did Starly evolve so fast, and then we were stuck with Staravia for over 100 episodes?

Why did Ash even need a Gible that got no Gym battle, and will be leaving the series in a very short time? Why didn't Gliscor get to be used in Sunyshore where it could have shined?

While Ash's Sinnoh team is definitely one of his strongest teams, I pretty much hate the way the pacing was handled. We get so hyped up to see Ash finally get Infernape, but it'll be Oak'd in 20 eps and then we won't see it for the next 200 eps.

 

[Trainer Yusuf]

Mild dislike. Not outright hatred.

 

[Iteru]

Did anyone else not like how they saved all the evolutions for the tail-end of the saga?

Both of Mukuhawk's evolutions were not at the end. Just saying.

Edit: Oh and Glion as well.

 

[Cybersai]

It really doesn't make sense either. Infernape is incredibly popular. Instead it only has a short timeframe on the main cast, and its not even in all these eps.

We're seeing Gible in every single episode, yet Infernape never gets let out of its ball. It was a miracle it was used in that Ditto ep...

 

[Iteru]

Goukazaru was completely whored out as a Hikozaru. Sure, it's a shame that the last stage isn't being as showcased as the first, but the character got loads of focus.

 

[Kavidun]

I dislike the way chimchar evolved, but the others I didn't mind so much.

 

[Cybersai]

I view each stage as needing its own separate showcasing, even if its the same Pokemon overall.

For example, Swinub did absolutely nothing. But Mamoswine got a lot of focus.

Here its the opposite, the early stages were shoved down our throats but its later stages get so little screentime.

The writers are finally giving Ash fully evolved starters, but what's the point if he has them for such a short time?

 

[Duckgon Z]

I do agree about Turtwig to Grotle, that definitively should have happened sooner. But Grotle to Torterra was about 60 episodes, so that wasn't too bad. At least it GETS a Gym, unlike Sceptile. I fucking HATED that Sceptile had like 3 fucking battles while Grovyle was around for so damn long. Double edged sword on both parts.

You have to remember this about Chimchar, it wasn't Ash's until DP 53, and it had a grand total of 4 appearances before that. So really, I count about 80 episode for Chimchar to Monferno. And Monferno to Infernape sucked, I mean it didn't really do a whole lot, really the opposite of Combusken's screentime, but again at least Infernape gets a Gym.

Starly was a weird one, since we never had a bird that evolved twice since Pidgeotto was caught as a Pidgeotto and not a Pidgey. I guess they were getting the feel for this one, but overall it was alright pacing wise.

Buizel, Pikachu...next!

Gligar to Gliscor, well that basically sealed its fate now that I look back at it. If the writers hadn't decided to evolve it so early, then maybe it would have evolved later and that might have swayed them from not giving him Gible to freshen up his team.

And Gible itself, again, I think it's the new Phanpy since it's I'm sure Gible won't get a split evo for Gen V (it's a fucking Garchomp, how do you split an Ace Uber Pokemon like that? Tell me Gamefreak.) and it doing something in late Gen V sounds plausible. Yeah it's a long wait and I probably won't even care by then, but at least the writers are thinking ahead a few years.

So there you go, overall it could have been better, but then again so could AG's evo pacing.

 

[Hestia]

I haven't really given it much thought, tbh. The pacing hasn't really bothered me. The only thing I could say is I would have liked to see a bit more of Infernape.

 

[Hellion]

Overall, I wasn't bothered by it.

We're going to see literally nothing of Torterra/Infernape because they're leaving the series immediately after the league.

Turtwig did well in two gyms, Grotle had a great battle against Palmer and Torterra got Bertha and is gonna get the League. All forms got at least a gym, so that's perfect pacing.

Why did the writers keep Turtwig and Chimchar in their base stages for so long?

Their first forms are marketable.

And don't say its because the first forms were marketable

Damn, you got me !!! No wait, the first forms are indeed more marketable and unless there's a reason to showcase the middle form (i.e. Grotle loss of speed), why really showcase it ?

Then there's the rushed stages. Why did Monferno get like 10 eps of screentime? Why couldn't Chimchar evolve earlier so we saw more of Monferno?

Because the evolution from Chimchar to Monferno didn't take anything away or really added anything to Chimchar. Yeah, Monferno's a little bit bigger and faster, but he's also a lot less cute, but Oh wait, there's this other form that's big, strong, fast, really cool looking and marketable, let's go to it fast.

Why did Starly evolve so fast, and then we were stuck with Staravia for over 100 episodes?

I agree, Starly evolved too fast.

Why did Ash even need a Gible that got no Gym battle, and will be leaving the series in a very short time?

Why did he need Krabby, Muk, Tauros when he already had a full team ? Why did he need Panphy when he had heracross ? Why did he need to capture Aipom ?

Gible is funny and will shine in the league and probably get something somewhere down the road à la Panphy.

Why didn't Gliscor get to be used in Sunyshore where it could have shined?

And taken the spot of Torterra and Infernape ? The ones you're just complaining don't get enough screentime ?

Besides, the writers didn't release Gliscor so Ash would get Gible, they released Gliscor because Gliscor's story was at an end.

and kids, that's how we spell Contradiction.

While Ash's Sinnoh team is definitely one of his strongest teams

By far

We get so hyped up to see Ash finally get Infernape, but it'll be Oak'd in 20 eps and then we won't see it for the next 200 eps.

or given back to Paul... cause I know how you feel about that idea.

Pacing-wise, to me, Torterra, Infernape, Gliscor and Pikachu were handled right. Buizel should have replaced Gliscor in the Snowpoint gym battle, Starly should have evolved later, Sunyshore should be a 4-on-4 battle with Gible included, but other than that, Sinnoh's pacing was handled alright.

None of the saga's pacing was perfect.

 

[Lyraeon]

Personally I think it's okay that the fully-evolved's got such a short time... Because evolution in the show doesn't work the same as in the game, nor do levels seem to play into anything (we've all had that "Pikachu should be level 100!" discussion by now). They evolved for character development reasons, not raw power reasons. I don't think it's fair to think of each level as being on display separetly - I think it's better to look at what parts were important to that pokemon, as a character, 's development.

Turtwig evolved not out of his own development, but to show that Ash can now deal with changing his strategies now, and to show he's a good enough trainer to have multiple fully evolved pokemon now - half his team/more than half depending on if you still count Gliscor (I count him the same way Charizard is, he'll come back for episodes here and there but never re-join) is fully evolved now, and I half-expect Buizel to evolve during the league. Gible won't evolve during this season, no, but that just means he'll go with Ash to the next region - he's there to show that Ash is really, really working with his team in detail now, not just vague "training" sessions. Infernape's role for Ash is obvious, but for his own development it was important he evolve so close to the League, so that Paul wouldn't have motive to beat Ash down again before then, and so that Infernape could prove once again that he's fantastic Right Out Of The Box - that is, that he's had no hitches with his power from one level to the next.

In contrast you brought up Swinub, who "barely" got any attention when underevolved... Considering he was a direct corrolation to Charmander, this shouldn't be surprising. He was small, cute, and endearing, and overly catered to as a basic, then evolved quickly and became a pain in the butt. Still one character. It's very, very rare for anyone's pokemon to be separate characters just by evolving, I think....

 

[Cybersai]

Turtwig did well in two gyms, Grotle had a great battle against Palmer and Torterra got Bertha and is gonna get the League. All forms got at least a gym, so that's perfect pacing.

Its not just Gyms, its screentime during fillers, trainer battles, and so forth. Turtwig got much more screentime in early DP than either Grotle or especially Torterra got.

Because the evolution from Chimchar to Monferno didn't take anything away or really added anything to Chimchar. Yeah, Monferno's a little bit bigger and faster, but he's also a lot less cute, but Oh wait, there's this other form that's big, strong, fast, really cool looking and marketable, let's go to it fast.

Because Grovyle and Combusken got more screentime than Treecko/Torchic.

And taken the spot of Torterra and Infernape ? The ones you're just complaining don't get enough screentime ?

I'd extend the Gym to 5 on 5. Gliscor should have been in Sunyshore, it is a crime it isn't.

Pacing-wise, to me, Torterra, Infernape, Gliscor and Pikachu were handled right. Buizel should have replaced Gliscor in the Snowpoint gym battle, Starly should have evolved later, Sunyshore should be a 4-on-4 battle with Gible included, but other than that, Sinnoh's pacing was handled alright.

His team seemed shoddily handled in terms of evo's. We get to see their final forms for the tail-end of the region, but the first 120 episodes we're stuck with the same team.

 

[Daxdiv]

I liked how paced out it was. Sure Starly -> Staravia was very quick evolution, I believe Starly evolved before they reached the first gym, which as far as evolution for a non-bug type goes is pretty fast. But I thought that Staravia -> Staraptor was paced out pretty well.

Chimchar, sure it stayed as a Chimchar longer than any form, but I also disregard the time it was in Paul's possession, and count the time since Ash officially caught it, which was 80 episodes until it evolved into Monferno. Yes, the change of Monferno -> Infernape was quick, but I really didn't see anything about Monferno they could have expanded on, since they showed it to be a strong battler, and it's only weakness was how it enter Blaze, which still seems to be a problem.

Turtwig, I will say that this is one of the most well balanced evolutions in Diamond and Pearl. Only was a Turtwig for 95 episodes span, and Grotle for 66 episode span. I thought that it's problem with speed was handled well and greatly touched upon in later fights. At least as far as all of Ash's pokemon goes, he'll be the only one who will have all 3 forms that fought in a Gym Match.

Gligar, despite my bias, it evolution was handled well and I think that Gligar improved a little bit when it became Gliscor. Still not one of my favorite Pokemon, but I did like the episode where Gliscor left.

Gible, I don't think it will evolve and if it does, maybe in a later saga where Ash decides to use his Pokemon again, and only to Gabite in that saga. Since it's not getting a gym match, I'm pulling for one win against a trainer's Pokemon in the league.

Buizel, not going to evolve, not now, could have broken the "fan rule" with no evolution of water type, but I highly doubt it will evolve, otherwise it would have been shown in Greatest Everyday like Torterra, Infernape, and Togekiss were.

 

[Cybersai]

Its kind of a shame. Infernape could have been the new Charizard, but its lack of screentime really stopped that.

Ash had Charizrd through the end of Kanto, Orange and early Johto, essentially 60-70 episodes.

Infernape is only around for the last 30 eps of DP, and again its rotting in its ball and not shown in most eps.

 

[Iteru]

Infernape is only around for the last 30 eps of DP, and again its rotting in its ball and not shown in most eps.

I'm guessing that Goukazaru is a favourite then, because I hear no complaints about incredibly neglected Mukuhawk who deserves an episode a hell of a lot more than the monkey.

 

[Cybersai]

I'm guessing that Goukazaru is a favourite then, because I hear no complaints about incredibly neglected Mukuhawk who deserves an episode a hell of a lot more than the monkey.

Staraptor has been around a long time and is constantly shown, especially chasing after TR like Pidgeotto/Noctowl. But unlike those failures, Staraptor still had good battle screentime.

Seriously, where is Infernape? We've having Gible shoved down our throats every ep, yet Ash's Infernape doesn't even get shown?

When DP ends, I bet a lot of people are going to say, "Why didn't Infernape get the screentime it deserved?"

 

[Iteru]

Staraptor has been around a long time and is constantly shown, especially chasing after TR like Pidgeotto/Noctowl. But unlike those failures, Staraptor still had good battle screentime.

Popping balloons is not a good thing. Mukuhawk has had the third gym and Shinji's Manyula. Not much. Goukazaru has has way more. Don't even give me the whole individual stage comment. They are the same character.

Seriously, where is Infernape? We've having Gible shoved down our throats every ep, yet Ash's Infernape doesn't even get shown?

I agree about Fukamaru but still, such Goukazaru bias. Surely you would have mentioned Dodaitose as well on this note?

When DP ends, I bet a lot of people are going to say, "Why didn't Infernape get the screentime it deserved?"

Yes, their complaint ratio to yours is bound to be huge.

 

[Cybersai]

Torterra not getting screentime is bothersome too, but at least Grotle got a lot in that stage unlike Monferno.

In general though, I am upset about the handling of Ash's entire DP team. They were handled better than the Johto team was, (but then again, what wasn't?), but I am still disappointed.

You'd think after 5 regions they'd get it right.

 

[ARC-1300]

didn't bother me, don't know why. i think we all knew that chimchar was going to evolve into a infernape after the foreshadowing they gave to it in the episode chim charred. not sure what to say about turtwig.

but i do see where your coming from on this.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Yeah, Chimchar/Monferno/Infernape was a bit too rushed (it didn't stay a Monferno for long). I didn't mind the rest.