Did AZ Invent Fairy-types?

[Destructive Idiot]

I didn't learn until a couple days ago that Gen VI and the rest of the Pokémon games occur in alternate universes.

I read more about it (Delta Episode dialogue, Sina's introduction of Fairy-type Pokémon, and, for good measure, a few search attempts to determine whether or not there were any references to Gen VI in Gen V). There were no references I could find to Gen VI in prior games, nor were there NPCs or events with which you could interact in Gen VI or any of the earlier generations that alluded to each other (unlike cameos from and descriptions of game mechanics and characters from earlier generations across Gens V, IV, and III, such as Caitlin appearing in HeartGold, SoulSilver, and Platinum). This apparently affirmed my suspicions that there's no evidence against the idea that X or Y and Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire occurred in a different universe (although the same as each other) from the previous Gens. Basically, there's nothing that contradicts the ideas that X/Y and ΩR/αS are part of their own shared universe and that X/Y and Gens III-V are separate. In fact, nothing suggested that X/Y and Gens III-V were separate until Zinnia's claim that there was an alternate universe in which Mega Evolution is unheard of and the war across Kalos from 3,000 years before never occurred. I soon realized that it wouldn't be too much of an imaginative stretch to think that, maybe, in addition to that, in Gens III-V, Fairy-types never existed.

I quickly imagined that there might be some association between Fairy-types and the reason Zinnia would address Infinity Energy (which was described as being the source of the ultimate weapon's power, as in the life energy that Yveltal takes and Xerneas generates) as "abominable technology humanity first thought up 3,000 years ago"; one explanation is that her opinion of Infinity Energy might've been partly influenced (game-wise) by the type properties of Dragon-types as they pertain to Fairy-types (since she is a Draconid historian).

Furthermore, both sets of games mention AZ's war.

One possibility I'd considered was that X/Y and ΩR/αS occurred in separate timelines themselves, but, if anything, the swimmer who said he swam to Kalos from Hoenn depicted only in X/Y and the ΩR/αS demo drives a nail into that idea's coffin.

I recognize that characters in Pokémon X and Y claim that Fairy-types weren't classified until just recently, and I found myself arguing that the type still could've existed without recognition, the in-game introduction of "brace yourself--a Fairy-type Pokémon" would be expected in the first Gen VI games, the length of time that qualifies as being recent is subjective (for all we know, that could mean 10 to 20 years), and there was no in-game explanation that I'd found for Fairy-types in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, I had thought that, perhaps, in X/Y and ΩR/αS's shared universe, Fairy-types always existed, and were only recently classified by Pokémon Professors. That doesn't necessarily mean that Professor Sycamore was the one to do it, or that the Fairy type was just classified at the beginning of X and Y; I'm well aware of how much time it might've taken for the games to occur compared to how long it might've taken for knowledge of Fairy-types to become widespread.

Anyways, who's to say that Flabébé was a Fairy-type before AZ constructed/fired the weapon in the divergent timeline?

 

[Pokémon Spectrum]

Since I don't consider any of the remakes to be canonical to the main storyline, I just disregard all of the info about "the War of 3000 years ago" given in ORAS, as well as the Delta Episode's description of how Mega Evolution was first discovered. After all, it blatantly contradicts the notion put forth in X and Y: that Mega Evolution originated in the Kalos region. Remakes are just that: Re-tellings of older stories. We can't simply disregard the originals just because they embellished them for the sake of a new audience with different expectations.

Anyway, I assume that, given the nature of Legendary Pokémon and their assumed lifespans, the Fairy type has indeed always existed, and was just recently classified. After all, it would be VERY strange if Xerneas just popped into existence in the past few years and somehow wormed its way into the Kalos region's mythos.

As for the idea that XY and ORAS take place in separate universes from each other, it is a sound theory. People mentioning the Kalos region does not disprove that theory. After all, it's not like Kalos would be erased from existence just because Lysandre didn't try to obliterate the planet.

 

[Destructive Idiot]

Anyway, I assume that, given the nature of Legendary Pokémon and their assumed lifespans, the Fairy type has indeed always existed, and was just recently classified. After all, it would be VERY strange if Xerneas just popped into existence in the past few years and somehow wormed its way into the Kalos region's mythos.

I meant it more in a sense of AZ's actions having been what resulted in other Pokémon being Fairy-type. It's just an idea; a suggestion that it would've been awesome if the other Fairy-type Pokémon were each different types before the ultimate weapon's activation. Furthermore, the dialogue presented in both X/Y and ΩR/αS strongly suggests that they share the same timeline, and, although it's described as having been "recently classified" in X/Y, there are some instances in which people behave as if it's always existed.

On that note, did the Fairy-type (or Xerneas and Yveltal, for that matter) ever exist in the history of Gens III-V (and if they didn't, could it be argued that they're responsible for the existence of Fairy-types)?

 

[Osprey]

I believe the Pokemon that gained Fairy type in Gen VI just had a sudden mutation or something. I doubt Pokemon are bound by the usual rules of evolution and whatnot, and in fictional worlds, sudden but useful mutations seem to be feasible. As for Xerneas, it probably did have what came to be classified as Fairy type recently, but it's been a tree for 3000 years; it's not like anyone would've been able to observe the Pokemon and take note of its weaknesses and resistances.

I'll give AZ the credit of creating a good deal of the Megavolutions that exist now, though.

 

[WallflowerCanyon]

See, this is why I'm hoping that a new Gen 6 installment that we may or may not get serves as a sort of sequel/prequel/whatever to both X/Y and ORAS. I'm going to honestly admit that I'm a little confused as to why people are complaining about the origin of Mega-Evolution. From what I understand, Mega-Evolution seems to have originated from a power found in Meteorites that fall from space(the one that created Sootopolis is a massive pool of this same energy that enables Groudon and Kyogre to change into Primals, which is similar and yet different from Mega-Evolution. Also, Rayquaza requires "eating" your Meteorite to finally Mega-Evolve). I also don't remember it being mentioned anywhere in X/Y that Mega-Evolution originated from AZ's weapon. In fact, I don't think we found out where it originated in Kalos, other than the legend behind the Tower of Mastery, which has no mention of being related to AZ, his weapon, and the Kalos War. In my opinion, I think the true origin of the Mega-Stones in Kalos have something to do with the Anistar Sundial. It is said that it had come from space, and Sycamore even uses it to upgrade your Key Stone in order to find hidden Mega-Stones.

Also, do I think there's ties between Mega-Evolution and the Fairy-type? I have no clue. I've always just viewed the Fairies as just that, a new type.

 

[Destructive Idiot]

I also don't remember it being mentioned anywhere in X/Y that Mega-Evolution originated from AZ's weapon. In fact, I don't think we found out where it originated in Kalos, other than the legend behind the Tower of Mastery, which has no mention of being related to AZ, his weapon, and the Kalos War. In my opinion, I think the true origin of the Mega-Stones in Kalos have something to do with the Anistar Sundial. It is said that it had come from space, and Sycamore even uses it to upgrade your Key Stone in order to find hidden Mega-Stones.

Well, there were these quotes from the page on Professor Sycamore that he apparently says at Anistar after beating Calem/Serena post-game.

"Let's talk about Mega Stones briefly."
"My theory is that they're special stones irradiated by the light--the energy of the Legendary Pokemon Yveltal/Xerneas--fired from the ultimate weapon 3,000 years ago."
"And that's what I think they are."
"It's even possible that stones like Fire Stones were what turned into these Mega Stones."

 

[WallflowerCanyon]

I also don't remember it being mentioned anywhere in X/Y that Mega-Evolution originated from AZ's weapon. In fact, I don't think we found out where it originated in Kalos, other than the legend behind the Tower of Mastery, which has no mention of being related to AZ, his weapon, and the Kalos War. In my opinion, I think the true origin of the Mega-Stones in Kalos have something to do with the Anistar Sundial. It is said that it had come from space, and Sycamore even uses it to upgrade your Key Stone in order to find hidden Mega-Stones.

Well, there were these quotes from the page on Professor Sycamore that he apparently says at Anistar after beating Calem/Serena post-game.

"Let's talk about Mega Stones briefly."
"My theory is that they're special stones irradiated by the light--the energy of the Legendary Pokemon Yveltal/Xerneas--fired from the ultimate weapon 3,000 years ago."
"And that's what I think they are."
"It's even possible that stones like Fire Stones were what turned into these Mega Stones."

Ahh, I see. So that means that Mega-Stones and Key-Stones in general are actually made of "infinite energy". Maybe the stones have different origins to each region, then. Kalos' Stones were artificially made by the weapon, while Hoenn's was made by a massive meteor impact that created Sootopolis.

 

[skyradiant]

My memory's a little blurry on this one, but I'm pretty sure breeding and the Dark-and-Steel-types were treated as completely new in the original GSC, but then HGSS removed the stuff about these features being new. This makes me think XY only stated the Fairy-type was newly discovered because those games were the first ones to have Fairy-types, and that a future Kalos installment might retcon any "newness" of the type.

 

[Lysson]

Nope.

Each game is set in a different AU, as explained by Zinnia. So some places have Fairy types and some don't.
So Fairy has always been in Pokemon, like Steel and Dark, but the games weren't set in those AUs until later.

 

[Destructive Idiot]

Nope.

Each game is set in a different AU, as explained by Zinnia. So some places have Fairy types and some don't.
So Fairy has always been in Pokemon, like Steel and Dark, but the games weren't set in those AUs until later.

Zinnia only indicates that there are at least two possible timelines; we're trying to find out what may or may not exist in each universe for certain based off of how they could fit into those two timelines we were given. I already know that you're arguing that different versions of those games can fit into those positions interchangeably. Try explaining why Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire act like Fairy-types have always existed in spite of the fact that they occur several years before X and Y, and, by word of Matsumiya, Black 2 and White 2. This is just an idea of what might or might not have happened in X/Y and ΩR/αS's history (which doesn't fit in with any of the prior games, according to ΩR/αS; it's not the same history as the earlier games') that I imagined could have happened based off of what we were given.

 

[Team Gaara]

Of course not~ All types have always been~ They just take a while to be classified as such by Pokemon Researchers.

 

[Destructive Idiot]

Of course not~ All types have always been~ They just take a while to be classified as such by Pokemon Researchers.

So, they were classified in ΩR/αS, and, suddenly, the world just lost information and history throughout Gens IV and V?

Here's the point:

We don't know whether or not Fairy-types even exist in the universe that takes place from Ruby, Sapphire, or Emerald to Black 2 or White 2.

We don't know whether or not Xerneas and Yveltal exist from R/S/E to Black 2 or White 2.

AZ's war from 3,000 years ago never happened in Gens III through V.

Mega Evolution was never discovered in the universe that contains Gens III through V.

There's an idea that some (if not all) of the Mega Stones in Kalos were created by the ultimate weapon in Gen VI.

AZ's weapon's powered by the same life energy that's regulated by the mortality duo.

 

[Tyrfing]

My only problem with the Fairy-type just being discovered is that someone should of noticed the Jigglypuff over there wasn't taking damage from that one dude's Hydreigon. This idea, while I like it, doesn't cover that, unless I'm just not following.

Also, on a side note, while this is a good theory, I really hope it actually was Hoenn that gave birth to Mega Evos. Kalos doesn't deserve the honor.

EDIT: I just came up with something. Sorry if this was already mentioned. Perhaps Gens III-V and IV are in the same timeline. How? Maybe the Fairy-type is somehow limited to Kalos and Hoenn born Fairy types. Maybe some chemical in the air that gets into the egg? Perhaps excess energy from the Ultimate Weapon still lingering? Considering what it was used for, it seems to be a possibility. If I make no sense, then just ignore me. Also, I am unable to explain how Hoenn could of received this energy, unless Hoenn was the nation the war was fought with, and even then, surely the chemical would of died out there sooner than in Kalos.

 

[Snowy]

it blatantly contradicts the notion put forth in X and Y: that Mega Evolution originated in the Kalos region.

To be fair, historians, scientists and archaeologists in the real world are always changing what they believe about history as new evidence comes to light to contract their existing beliefs. It wouldn't be a stretch for them to believe Mega Evolution started in Kalos then later find out it started in Hoenn with these legendaries.

As for are remakes canon? Personally, i consider remakes to replace the canon of the originals. But each of us makes our own canon, so whatever you consider canon is perfectly legit.

 

[Robo-Floatzel]

I personally think that the Fairy type has always existed, and that there are types that are yet to be discovered. I highly doubt AZ created the Fairy type because what would his Floette have been been before it's revival.

As for Mega Evolutions, I read about a theory that the Mega Stones were created from the Pokemon that died in the war 3000 years ago, and my theory is that Mega Evolutions have always existed and are deep within the DNA of virtually all Pokemon species, and that the means of creating one are quite questionable, being that a number of that species has to be sacrificed in a similar fashion to the creation of a Philosopher's Stone in the anime series Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood. As for Megas being only in Kalos, the franchise has done things like this before and tends to retcon itself to fit in with the more recent generation, so come the third Kalos game and if a new version and not a sequel, what's said would be different than it was in X/Y.

My theory as to the timeline is that Gens 1 and 2 take place in one timeline with Gens 3-5 taking place in another, with FR/LG and HG/SS taking the place of their Gen 1 and 2 counterparts, pretty much making "Timeline 1" the timeline with the most things known since things are drastically different between the first two generations that exist in "Timeline 2" and their remakes in Timeline 1. As for Gen 6 and OR/AS, I think they both exist in the same timeline in what I call "Timeline 3" and how there may be Gen 1 remakes and so-forth that would co-respond with this timeline.

Let's compare this with the Zelda timeline, in which the outcomes of the events of Ocarina of Time split the timeline into three separate timelines that are drastically different from each other based on the outcomes of the final battle between Link and Ganondorf. Let's say that AZ using the Ultimate Weapon is like the battle in OoT, in which the timeline that the weapon is used is Timeline 3, while as the weapon failing to work or never being made result in Timelines 1 and 2. It's even possible that this could be split into even further timelines that include the Pokemon anime and various manga series, depending on how you look at it.

To put it simply, the Pokemon timeline is more convoluted than the Zelda timeline.

 

[Team Gaara]

So, they were classified in ΩR/αS, and, suddenly, the world just lost information and history throughout Gens IV and V?

ORAS is Gen VI, which is after IV and V. That's not really a valid point.

Here's the point:

We don't know whether or not Fairy-types even exist in the universe that takes place from Ruby, Sapphire, or Emerald to Black 2 or White 2.

Technically they do, but they haven't been classified as such yet.

We don't know whether or not Xerneas and Yveltal exist from R/S/E to Black 2 or White 2.

Of course they exist. I mean, nothing suggests that they don't, right?

AZ's war from 3,000 years ago never happened in Gens III through V.

Mega Evolution was never discovered in the universe that contains Gens III through V.

There's an idea that some (if not all) of the Mega Stones in Kalos were created by the ultimate weapon in Gen VI.

AZ's weapon's powered by the same life energy that's regulated by the mortality duo.

Okay, what does this have to do with anything, tho...? What does it have to do with creating Fairy-types?

 

[Destructive Idiot]

I personally think that the Fairy type has always existed, and that there are types that are yet to be discovered. I highly doubt AZ created the Fairy type because what would his Floette have been been before it's revival.

I'm not one to make wild speculation for little or no reason... *sarcasm, or irony if AZ and/or the mortality duo do turn out to be the ones responsible for Fairy-types being commonplace* but, when I wrote that the Fairy-types could have each been different types before the ultimate weapon's activation, the first thing that sprung to mind was that Flabébé and Floette could have been, say, Normal-types.

As for Mega Evolutions, I read about a theory that the Mega Stones were created from the Pokemon that died in the war 3000 years ago, and my theory is that Mega Evolutions have always existed and are deep within the DNA of virtually all Pokemon species, and that the means of creating one are quite questionable, being that a number of that species has to be sacrificed in a similar fashion to the creation of a Philosopher's Stone in the anime series Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood. As for Megas being only in Kalos, the franchise has done things like this before and tends to retcon itself to fit in with the more recent generation, so come the third Kalos game and if a new version and not a sequel, what's said would be different than it was in X/Y.

As for are remakes canon? Personally, i consider remakes to replace the canon of the originals. But each of us makes our own canon, so whatever you consider canon is perfectly legit.

Zinnia's remarks appear to suggest that all the previous games actually happened (maybe even Gens I-II), but it's nice to see how other people think the series played out.

My theory as to the timeline is that Gens 1 and 2 take place in one timeline with Gens 3-5 taking place in another, with FR/LG and HG/SS taking the place of their Gen 1 and 2 counterparts, pretty much making "Timeline 1" the timeline with the most things known since things are drastically different between the first two generations that exist in "Timeline 2" and their remakes in Timeline 1. As for Gen 6 and OR/AS, I think they both exist in the same timeline in what I call "Timeline 3" and how there may be Gen 1 remakes and so-forth that would co-respond with this timeline.

Let's compare this with the Zelda timeline, in which the outcomes of the events of Ocarina of Time split the timeline into three separate timelines that are drastically different from each other based on the outcomes of the final battle between Link and Ganondorf. Let's say that AZ using the Ultimate Weapon is like the battle in OoT, in which the timeline that the weapon is used is Timeline 3, while as the weapon failing to work or never being made result in Timelines 1 and 2. It's even possible that this could be split into even further timelines that include the Pokemon anime and various manga series, depending on how you look at it.

To put it simply, the Pokemon timeline is more convoluted than the Zelda timeline.

There are however many historical events that could have transpired differently (the war could've happened without AZ firing the weapon, and Xerneas and Yveltal could have existed or not existed without the war), but we can only guess what occurred in each universe from the information we're given. By the way: IV is 4, "could've" is "could have," and "correspond" is an actual verb.

Okay, what does this have to do with anything, tho...? What does it have to do with creating Fairy-types?

I was just saying that maybe those type differences were never noticed in the earlier games for a reason.

ORAS is Gen VI, which is after IV and V. That's not really a valid point.

Right? Haha-

WRONG.

Someone hasn't heard about this.

 

[Team Gaara]

ORAS is Gen VI, which is after IV and V. That's not really a valid point.

Right? Haha-

WRONG.

Someone hasn't heard about this.

Of course I have~ RSE and ORAS aren't the same thing~ RSE is Gen III. ORAS is Gen VI.

 

[Snowy]

As for are remakes canon? Personally, i consider remakes to replace the canon of the originals. But each of us makes our own canon, so whatever you consider canon is perfectly legit.

Zinnia's remarks appear to suggest that all the previous games actually happened (maybe even Gens I-II), but it's nice to see how other people think the series played out.

What I meant was that the events of Ruby, Sapphire, Emerald still happened... They just happened the way they were told in ORAS. And FRLG replaced the events of RBY, while HGSS replaced the events of GSC. At least in my version of canon...

But you have to admit, the pokemon games are very contradictory. Zinnia's remarks do indeed suggest that all generations happened, but both ORAS and XY refer to Mega Evolution legends thoughout history... Now, it's a given that Pokemon can not Mega Evolve without the stones, but you'd think if Kalos' legends were known in Kanto, there'd be references to it in Kanto. Either the legends of Kalos weren't known (Bit of a stretch), or we have to allow newer games to change the canon of the older games.

As for the fairy type, Pokemon XY clearly states that the fairy type has only just been discovered, not created. But this leads to more contradictions, such as the ability to use Dragon moves on Jigglypuff in Gen 5 and earlier... and what were pure Fairy pokemon classified as before the fairy type was discovered. Obviously Floette has been around for a few thousand years.

My advice is... do not think about the Pokemon timeline too much. It'll give you a headache. Either take each generation as a separate story to the last, or create your own canon in your mind that isn't contradictory.

Heck, even non-gaming mediums (The Anime and Manga) are very contradictory at times.

 

[Destructive Idiot]

ORAS is Gen VI, which is after IV and V. That's not really a valid point.

Right? Haha-

WRONG.

Someone hasn't heard about this.

Of course I have~ RSE and ORAS aren't the same thing~ RSE is Gen III. ORAS is Gen VI.

I was hoping you wouldn't try to argue that, because I already posted a few statements that appear to disprove it in the first post. They took a painful amount of time and effort to explain.

Imagine this: The Pokémon World Tournament happened in BW2 of the Mega Evolution universe at the same time as X and Y, and, by your reasoning, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. The Hoenn Gym Leaders and Steven Stone are at the PWT and waiting for new Trainers challenging Hoenn's Pokémon League at the same time... somehow.

There are no mentions in ΩRαS of the events from FRLG through BW2, nor of how Team Flare threatened to kill everyone else in the world (or anything that occurred) during X and Y. In fact, there aren't any references that suggest the events of any of the games from the other Gens took place before ΩRαS whatsoever. Meanwhile, in X and Y, there's news of Team Plasma "making news a while back in the Unova region." Wulfric's apparently a fan of Brycen-Man (which was made after Brycen retired from being a Gym Leader) and Clemont hopes to visit the Nimbasa City amusement park (which only became an amusement park after Elesa got a new Gym). A Maid from Gen IV lived in Sinnoh at some point before moving to Kalos. There are no such references in ΩRαS. In fact, there are references that appear to prove that it occurred before any of the other games.

Zinnia's dialogue suggests that the other Hoenn in RSE is exactly the same as in ΩRαS (aside from the fact that AZ's war never occurred and Mega Evolutions have never been heard of).

There's a swimmer in Azure Bay in X and Y who claims to have swum to Kalos from Hoenn over the course of however many years. In the ΩRαS demo, there's a swimmer who claims he's planning on making a marathon swim from Hoenn to Kalos.

Mr. Bonding is created in ΩRαS, and he appears later in X and Y (maybe O-Powers will be a recurring game mechanic).

It only stands to reason that they'd occur at the same time as RSE (that Team Magma and Team Aqua would've formed at around the same time, and that the characters would've been born at the same time).

But you have to admit, the pokemon games are very contradictory. Zinnia's remarks do indeed suggest that all generations happened, but both ORAS and XY refer to Mega Evolution legends thoughout history... Now, it's a given that Pokemon can not Mega Evolve without the stones, but you'd think if Kalos' legends were known in Kanto, there'd be references to it in Kanto. Either the legends of Kalos weren't known (Bit of a stretch), or we have to allow newer games to change the canon of the older games.

What you just said is oxymoronic. I get the feeling that you didn't hear about (or you didn't understand) a thing Zinnia said. You said that all the Gens happened, then suddenly argued that, despite the fact that all the games are canon, RSE never happened (that they were rewritten in ΩRαS). Nothing got replaced or overwritten.

The Delta Episode claimed that both RSE and ΩRαS happened, even though the older games were remade (nothing got changed; the games' story just expanded).

They occur in 2 different universes (one without Mega Evolution and one with Mega Evolution, respectively), which means that we don't even know whether or not Xerneas and Yveltal exist in Gens III-V.