Did dub script writers all get replaced after 4Kids stopped dubbing?

[Team Rocket]

I've been going back and watching old seasons of the anime. I can't tell for sure if they immediately replaced all of the dub script writers after TPCi took over sole control of dubbing the anime. The way some characters speak certainly seems different in newer episodes compared to older ones, but I don't know if it's as a result in a gradual shift in writers or if they were all immediately replaced when 4Kids lost control.

 

[FANG-TAN]

I'm pretty sure when 4Kids stopped having anything to do with the English dub, that included their scriptwriters.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure none of the script writers from 4Kids stayed on after TPCI took over the dub. I think that the only people from 4Kids that did stay were a couple of voice actors, like Gary's voice actor, but that was about it. The script writers being different would definitely factor into how different the characters sound in the two dubs. I think it's more noticeable with Team Rocket due to how TPCI seems to give them random phrases and rhymes so often. To be fair, 4Kids did that too, but I don't think quite as often and it has made their dialogue come off as wooden and stiff at times for me.

 

[Team Rocket]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure none of the script writers from 4Kids stayed on after TPCI took over the dub. I think that the only people from 4Kids that did stay were a couple of voice actors, like Gary's voice actor, but that was about it. The script writers being different would definitely factor into how different the characters sound in the two dubs. I think it's more noticeable with Team Rocket due to how TPCI seems to give them random phrases and rhymes so often. To be fair, 4Kids did that too, but I don't think quite as often and it has made their dialogue come off as wooden and stiff at times for me.

Yeah, in that case, I guess TPCi was trying to emulate how 4Kids wrote for Team Rocket, but it just didn't flow as well. So, really, while TPCi's Team Rocket is a bit worse, I'd say, I suppose it all stems from 4Kids' initial idea to change their dialogue so much.

 

[ii kanji]

Can we apportion blame where it's due please? Zoppi deserves every bad name he gets for writing TRio's appalling dialogue.

(Eric Stuart's delivery aside), the TRio were actually palatable characters before he started writing them. Yes they were different from the characters in Japanese. But was their every line an alliteration or rhyme? No. In fact, hardly no line was such a thing. They did make puns and a lot of jokes not intended for children (some of which are actually, dare I say it, still funny?). It was not even comparable to the guff it is today.

Declaration of interest: I am not a fan of the 4Kids dub.

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Yep, when 4Kids's contract was up so was the script writers's time as well. Pretty much everyone at 4Kids that were involved left the show when it moved to Cartoon Network. James Carter Cathcart took over whoever originally wrote the scripts and that's more or less the reason why TR's dialogue feels so rhymey (if that makes sense) and really corny then compared to the 4Kids days. Sure, 4Kids did that but they never did it all the time unlike TPCI, the more I hear rhymes coming of the TR trio's mouth, the more I get Thomas & Friends (Season 13 - 16 or 17) vibes. They constantly did rhyming through those seasons and it got lame and cheesy real fast.

 

[Team Rocket]

Can we apportion blame where it's due please? Zoppi deserves every bad name he gets for writing TRio's appalling dialogue.

(Eric Stuart's delivery aside), the TRio were actually palatable characters before he started writing them. Yes they were different from the characters in Japanese. But was their every line an alliteration or rhyme? No. In fact, hardly no line was such a thing. They did make puns and a lot of jokes not intended for children (some of which are actually, dare I say it, still funny?). It was not even comparable to the guff it is today.

Declaration of interest: I am not a fan of the 4Kids dub.

And do you know when Zoppi started writing? Was it as soon as 4Kids stopped working on the anime, or was it later than that? I just ask because I don't think Team Rocket's dialogue sounded so bad during the Battle Frontier saga.

 

[Flynn]

I think Zoppi has been a writer since the Johto days, but it was him along with some other people. It wasn't until the dub switch where he became the sole script adapter. I could be wrong, though.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Yeah, in that case, I guess TPCi was trying to emulate how 4Kids wrote for Team Rocket, but it just didn't flow as well. So, really, while TPCi's Team Rocket is a bit worse, I'd say, I suppose it all stems from 4Kids' initial idea to change their dialogue so much.

I'm not sure if they were trying to emulate how 4Kids wrote Team Rocket's dialogue. They did change their dialogue quite a bit from what I've heard, but they weren't rhyming all the time in the 4Kids dub. Whenever Team Rocket does that outside of their motto or some comedy bits, it feels so random and unnatural. Part of that could come down to how the voice actors deliver the dialogue too. Maybe they thought that they needed to talk in rhyme more due to their motto and being comedy relief, but it doesn't quite work. I think that they have reduced it a bit during XY, but it is still kind of there.

 

[ii kanji]

I just ask because I don't think Team Rocket's dialogue sounded so bad during the Battle Frontier saga.

Tbf even his acting wasn't so very bad back in BF. I guess he needed a little time to warm up?

 

[Johtohfiller]

Can we apportion blame where it's due please? Zoppi deserves every bad name he gets for writing TRio's appalling dialogue.

(Eric Stuart's delivery aside), the TRio were actually palatable characters before that hellspawn started writing them. Yes they were different from the characters in Japanese. But was their every line an alliteration or rhyme? No. In fact, hardly no line was such a thing. They did make puns and a lot of jokes not intended for children (some of which are actually, dare I say it, still funny?). It was not even comparable to the guff it is today.

Declaration of interest: I am not a fan of the 4Kids dub.

After watching a bunch of DP episodes subbed I think it's possibly TR's best series. I wouldn't have guessed that from the dub.

 

[ii kanji]

After watching a bunch of DP episodes subbed I think it's possibly TR's best series. I wouldn't have guessed that from the dub.

I KNOW RIGHT?!

Not sure whether the thought makes me want to smile benevolently over my own glorious memories or cry that so few people could enjoy it with me.

 

[Team Rocket]

Sorry to bring this back, but I just read on Bulbapedia, under Zoppi's article, "Since season 5 he has been responsible for the script adaptation of episodes, a role which he still performs on the show." That sounds like he has had that sort of role since the 4Kids days, so what happened? Did he gain more of a voice after the others were fired and took things in a different direction as a result?

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

Sorry to bring this back, but I just read on Bulbapedia, under Zoppi's article, "Since season 5 he has been responsible for the script adaptation of episodes, a role which he still performs on the show." That sounds like he has had that sort of role since the 4Kids days, so what happened? Did he gain more of a voice after the others were fired and took things in a different direction as a result?

Yes, JCC began scripting during Season 5, but he was only a minor writer in the later 4Kids era and he didn't even write most of the remainder of the 4Kids dub's episodes (the majority of Seasons 5-8's dub writing is actually by Kathy Borland, Stewart Ferris, and Paul Taylor going off the credits). It wasn't until Season 9 (Battle Frontier) when JCC became the dub's sole script writer and got full control of the writing, which is also when TPCi gained rights to the license for dubbing.

I honestly prefer the 4Kids dub over the TPCi (current) dub in general, though, and one of the biggest reasons is due to my feeling of the decline in the script writing since the latter took over. I can't tell you how many times I've heard Meowth say the words "Dig it," "Oy vey," "lugs," and "mugs" since the change, Jessie saying "Primo perps" or "Primo Pokemon," or James say "Old chum," "Gingerly rubbing that gentle Geodude," "Founding a formidable Pokemon army is inevitable for our Kalos Kingdom," etc. 4Kids may have added in a few jokes at times that were unnecessary, but their Team Rocket never said stuff like this.

Although, I feel Ash was negatively affected by the change in terms of the writing, too, he says stuff like him being "So psyched," "a noob," "That's the way we roll," "A'course," "Ya see," "Kay," "Ya know," "Put your foot on the gas," and the like as well, things 10 year olds don't say in real life. 4Kids had Ash speak more like an actual boy his age to me.

I'm pretty sure when 4Kids stopped having anything to do with the English dub, that included their scriptwriters.

And that's another reason why I stopped enjoying the dub, honestly.

 

[kantoskies]

4Kids had a lot of problems, but I still think how they handled Team Rocket in seasons 2 and 3 was some of their best work. They were much different from the Japanese version but they had their own unique charm and it proved that the dub could actually handle them well. And we can talk all day about difference of accuracy to the original, background music, voice direction, etc between the two dubs but I stand firm by my belief that Zoppi is the biggest flaw with the TPCi dub and if they fired him alone it would improve the dub tenfold. All of the dub dialogue nowadays is garbage, yes, but Team Rocket's is a special type of terrible. Hell, even in Best Wishes when the TRio was much more serious they still tried to *****touch up***** the dialogue and it was even more jarring because it didn't match up with the animation. I try not to live in the past and I get that the dub change was just business, and really the 4Kids dub wasn't anything to write home about, but it's hard to not still be a bit bitter about it when the new dub is just so god awful bad. TPCi might be overall more faithful to the original and doesn't have any giant glaring mistranslations like 4Kids, but you could actually watch 4Kids' dub and take it for what it was (usually).

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

TPCi doesn't have any giant glaring mistranslations like 4Kids

Actually, TPCi's dub has some giant glaring mistranslations of its own just like 4Kids' dub did, so the two dubs are pretty evenly matched in that aspect (and I'd say the same applies for faithfulness to the original as a whole at this point, as both dubs miserably botched the Sunday Specials via Chronicles & Mega Evolution Specials respectively, where they were filled to the brim with dub music, lackluster VO, & stupid mistranslations).

As for the main Series (except for one example I'm listing here), where the 4Kids' dub had the error of stating that Brock's mom passed away in Kanto, TPCi's dub made the error of stating that the Tag Battle Tournament that took place in Hearthome City took place in Eterna City by the Narrator during Sinnoh. Where the 4Kids dub had Ritchie having an Eevee he didn't have in the Japanese Version in Chronicles, the TPCi dub had Lenora say that she had the same Herdier than she did a Lillipup in the previous episode in Unova. Where the 4Kids dub had Arbok evolving into Seviper during Hoenn (though the late Maddie Blaustein claimed this error was the fault of Lawrence Neves at the time who supposedly made the segments, who was working for PUSA/TPCi at the time), TPCi's dub had Houndour being told that it was a "Houndoom, move out!" during Kalos. Both dubs also made the error of making a Voltorb state it was an "Electrode" (during the M03 short and the 3rd Hoopa Surprise Ring Adventures, short, respectively).

I'd argue, however, that the two most glaring mistranslations are actually from the TPCi dub in general: during the Battle Frontier dub episode "Gathering the Gang of Four," TPCi had Ash say that "At first, ya hated goin' inside your Pokeball" to Pikachu when Satoshi actually said "You disliked being in your Pokeball," which means that dub Ash thinks that it likes going inside the Pokeball when we learned in Episode 1 it doesn't, and by far the worst mistranslation to me comes from DP191's dub where Ash says that all he needs to do is win the Champion's League to become a Pokemon Master, whereas in the Japanese Version, he states that winning the Champion's League is just one step, not the full path, to becoming a Pokemon Master, so that ended up affecting the genuine plot of the Series in the worst possible way.

But anyway, you get the point, just thought I'd clarify my stance on this particular point- that aspect hasn't changed in any way between the two dubs from my point of view.

 

[Dogasu]

Whenever I bring up the dub's tendency to erase Japanese text but then not bother to replace it with the English equivalent I always get a few people who try to excuse that away by saying this is all done to make it easier for TPCI to export the show to other markets. Since the English dub is the version on which all non-Asian foreign dubs are based, they argue, having a single "clean" version to ship out just makes sense.

But I don't believe that's the reason at all, because when I then look at the script the dub produces, *especially* the Team Rocket stuff, I know that they couldn't possibly give two shits about making things easier for foreign markets. I mean, can you imagine what it must be like for the poor French translator who has to try to make sense of the English Team Rocket dialogue? Or the guy in Germany who has to take Ash's slang and hope that their interpretation of what he's saying is accurate? Just how do you translate "We'll go green and be rolling in green while the twerps are green with envy!" into Italian?

After watching a bunch of DP episodes subbed I think it's possibly TR's best series. I wouldn't have guessed that from the dub.

It's especially infuriating when people act so dismissive of even the *idea* that the Rocket trio are much better characters in the Japanese version. People really do underestimate just how much the dub has screwed them over throughout the years.

There's a reason the Rocket trio is way more popular in Japan than they are in the U.S....

 

[King Robert]

I do appreciate the lack of puns in the episode titles.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

I do appreciate the lack of puns in the episode titles.

There are still puns in the episode titles, though, "A Trip Down Memory Train" being a recent one: that's not something that's a 4Kids-specific thing, as TPCi is guilty of it as well.

Now I will concede there's a lower frequency of puns in the titles from TPCi than there were from 4Kids, yes, but this is compensated for by the fact that TPCi does more frequent alliterations in episodes titles than 4Kids in turn, did. For example, "A Frolicking Find in the Flowers," "A Frenzied Factory Fiasco," "A Cellular Connection," etc. being some recent ones that were almost back to back.

(There was one episode title that was actually verifiable gibberish, too, "Party Dancecapades," which takes the crown for the worst episode title in the dub's entire 18 year for me. I've seen a lot of corny, stupid, and cheesy episode titles from both dubs, but this just takes the cake- "Dancecapade" is not even a word in the English language.)