Did TPCi get rid of 4kids' atmosphere?

[Shadow Yoshi]

I was thinking about this today and decided to make a topic about it. Note - this isn't meant to be a bashing thread for TPCi's voice actors. Just thought I'd mention that.

So...we all remember the 4kids episodes before TPCi took over the dub. The theme songs, the voices, and a lot of the dub-specific stuff revolved around the cheesy ideas of friendship, loyalty, and all that. Does the TPCi dub still have that? Of course, but I feel like it's all done to a lesser (and cleaner) extent. I haven't watched as much of the TPCi era as I have of the 4kids era (I was never a big fan of DP and didn't care for what I've seen of BW), but it just seems like the 4kids era was a lot more loving and heartfelt. The theme songs were better and catered more directly to the popular audience - Pokémon World (from the Orange Islands) is the biggest example I can think of, because that's some kickass R&B. TPCi's theme songs are significantly more lackluster and generic, at least from what I've heard of them. Maybe 4kids made the dub seem more localized? It would make sense, since they are their own company as opposed to a subsidiary of a Japanese one.

The most emotion-provoking movie for me, out of the ones I've seen, has been Pokémon 4Ever. Celebi dying in Ash's arms was just...heartwrenching, you know? I haven't seen any of the TPCi-era movies (save for Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea, which was great); however, judging them by their covers, they don't look as 4kids-y as the 4kids movies were. So maybe I should just watch them.

What do you guys think?

 

[Shadao]

It all comes down to the dub's faithfulness to the original Japanese version and the creative licenses they can implement upon the episodes themselves. The details behind the two dubbing companies are a bit more complex than what I'm about to tell you, but it can basically be summarized as this: 4Kids has more freedom to make creative changes with the dialogue (and the background), while TPCi is more or less trying to stay as close as the original dialogue. This is why 4Kids tend have more natural voice acting than TPCi. However, their changes to the show are very infamous such as the "donut" flub.

 

[Johtohfiller]

I find the 4Kids dub more enjoyable to watch despite being less accurate. I find TPCi's dub too dry, it seems like they don't even bother trying to adapt the humor to English so a lot of stuff that's supposed to be funny gets lost. And their treatment of TR is just ugh.

 

[Pokemaster97]

From my view point, it seems like TPCi treats their dub more seriously than 4Kids did, which can be good and bad. The 4kids dub always felt really energetic and fast paced to me, while TPCi takes a more mature feel, which isn't always the most effective approach to a show aimed at children.

 

[The Power of Pika]

From my view point, it seems like TPCi treats their dub more seriously than 4Kids did, which can be good and bad. The 4kids dub always felt really energetic and fast paced to me, while TPCi takes a more mature feel, which isn't always the most effective approach to a show aimed at children.

I've seen mature approach cartoons do well. It does depend on culture and even era the cartoons comes in though. The kids industry is a constantly changing industry. Even the more child like approach is not always effective if the era of kids don't take to it. It's why a companies job is to keep up with what kids are into and keep up to date with them as much as possible. It's amazing how many companies actually die due to not keeping up with trends.

The biggest thing that I noticed that makes a mature cartoon less effective is if it's a style following that of a style before it in the same cartoon. Thing is the first version of a cartoon style will attract a certain type of child or adult. When a company changes, the style and approach changes. That can't be stopped because every company has different styles and approaches with some being more obvious than others. When the style changes it's not really directly targeting that exact same group anymore.

For example. If you attract a group who likes puns and then remove the puns and make the comedy slang like. Not all the pun lover are going to like the slang like comedy. A light hearted and energetic approach changing to a more serious approach also can end up changing the type of group that will be attracted. Those liking a more Bugs bunny like cartoony style of acting may not like a realistic style of acting if it changes.

There is a lot of elements that changes a mood of a cartoon which in turn changes the potential group of kids or adults that may watch.
This also causes splits as well because over time you get the newer group that's getting attracted into the newer style who may not like the older style. Going into a extreme case here. Sonic the hedgehog's cartoon fanbase is split due to massive revamp of style changes in more than just voice acting and writing but also in how the cartoon is created. However to a less extreme case cartoons like DBZ and many other who had VA and writing changes also have splits due to style changes through company take overs of each show. Even a cartoon like One Piece where the ones who liked the 4kids version are drowned out by the ones who like Funimation's version are a split off group. The 4kids group is alot quieter and smaller than the Funimation group. The 4kids group while small do exist though.

TPCI's dub is a good style but it's running as the second style which means it's not going to appeal to everyone who watched the 4kids version which is probably why it comes of as not working for some. You will get some overlap where some like both but the split still exists.

People who watched the 4kids dub came in because they loved the 4kids style. So obviously a company or VA change would change the style and people who use to watch the older style are going to have a hard time if the newer style doesn't appeal to them. The newer style in some peoples case is not the reason they watched the show for.

Me personally. I love seeing new takes. I actually find the different takes exciting. However I am very big on cartoons and their styles so I'm use to adjusting from style to style. With Pokemon however I find TPCI's take just as emotion- provoking to me as any other style. I cried a few times when watching their DP dub when Gliscor was released. I like the mature approach as much as the more child like approach.

Yes TPCI's style is different from what I can tell. Though I can understand why people who prefer 4kids styles may get more out of 4kids than TPCI.

On another note I noticed you can attract people who aren't so into the style as well if the story interests the person which is also why sometimes you get some people who watched the later style suddenly go backwards and found they prefer the older style.

Styles and direction from each company is quite complex. I've been doing study on it and it's really hard to get my head around at points.

 

[Legacy]

Bring back the jelly donut and "aim for the horn!"

 

[Nick102]

Well I do have to say that back in the day I did enjoy the kind of atmosphere that 4Kids gave the anime in one way or another. I think what I would really like out of the English dub is for it to be faithful to the Japanese version, but still maintain that same sort of atmosphere that made watching the original series on Kids' WB! so enjoyable to me. I would also say that I would want the anime to still have the 4Kids voice actors like Veronica Taylor, only have their lines be more faithful to the original.

 

[Ambipom666]

Meh. Beyond the new VAs getting used to their roles for the first season or two of the TPCi dub, and a few idiotic Americanizations and pointless cuts here and there, I feel like the average TPCi episode isn't that much different from your average 4Kids episode. The first two or so seasons of the TPCi dub even used 4Kids music, so there's a real feeling of sameness there for me. What really solidifies this for me is that fact that both dubs replace the original music with their own gruel, so I have the same distaste towards both of them.

Also, I feel like this is gonna be yet another 4Kids vs. TPCi thread, but maybe I'm just cynical.

 

[Dogasu]

They replaced the 4Kids atmosphere with a TPCI atmosphere. Both of which are quite different from the atmosphere of the original Japanese version.

 

[Robo-Floatzel]

I like how the 4Kids dub had a lot of spirit to it and was energetic, the theme songs felt very empowering and motivational and you could tell they put some effort into their work. I know there were a lot of changes such as the "Jelly-filled donut" scene as well as the bad puns, but I feel they simply add to the charm of the 4Kids dub.

The TPCi dub feels somewhat, for a lack of better word, "soulless" at times and I feel like not that much effort is put in, for instance, it goes for more generic (and somewhat cheesy) theme songs about friendship and such, and while people say the TPCi dub is more mature, I feel it's somewhat even more childish than the 4Kids dub ever was, but that may just be me. I understand if they are trying to be more accurate to the original scripts, and I agree with that, but I feel like they need to put a bit more effort into their work, that is what I think.

 

[Solayoh]

I think they did, they removed a lot of the comic relief, and light heartedness.

 

[Yash]

I think when 4Kids started out, they were pretty great. Eventually though they lost the passion, probably around Johto (when it was obvious the series was never going to have any sort of definitive conclusion) and the performances became stale.

TPCI's dub is an improvement over the later 4Kids era but keeping the Japanese score and translating Team Rocket straight would go a long way towards improving their dub.