Did you consider Haunter and Larvitar to be "captures" when they were around?

[Cybersai]

Since the topic was going in the other thread. Ash and the gang be-friend many pokemon over the course of the show that they never actually capture.

- Misty be-friended and battled with a Golduck, an Oddish, etc.

- Brock took care of a baby Stantler.

- May nursed an injured Swablu back to health.

- Max befriended Ralts, Shuppet, Poocheyena, etc.


But in these cases, the characters never actually captured the Pokemon they helped. So why is Haunter and Larvitar viewed as something different for Ash?

Haunter to me, was just like Jigglypuff. A Pokemon that tagged along for one episode because it liked Ash. Larvitar was around when Ash already had 6 Pokemon on his roster, and it was said in its first episode they were going to take it back to Mt. Silver.

What do you think?

 

[Duckgon Z]

I'll say no for Larvitar, since he never physically caught it. His job was to escort it to its mother, not train it and keep it. And he also had 6 Pokemon and it was never officially apart of his roster. Befriended is a good word for it, like May and Swablu, Brock and Stantler, Misty and Oddish, etc. This one is pretty case closed.

Now Haunter is more tricky, since he never officially caught it, he intended to, but he never officially caught it did. But it seemed more like Haunter was more interested in playing around that training/battling, so it followed Ash and friends. It was basically Jigglypuff. And it gets really blurry with the "he used it in battle, no he didn't, "get" in the episode title, not officially caught".

But I say no for Haunter as well, it wasn't in Spurt at all either with Ash's older Pokemon, and didn't have a special scene like Larvitar. Its like Beedril, Raticate, and Seaking, but it was in more than 1 episode.

 

[PDL]

To be honest, people still assume that the "Gotta Catch em'all" mentality is still current, despite the fact that it's been abandoned since the start of the GBA games. So every Pokémon that the characters bond with are somehow "in possesion" of the character.

With Haunter, it wanted to follow Ash because he liked him, but he was not serious at all about helping to acheive Ash's goal. Ash thought that he could use Haunter as a ticket to ensure victory over an overly strong and downright dangerous opponent. Of course he was gravely mistaken, but somehow, it's goofing off somehow made Ash "win" (Even then it was a Kanto cop-out badge in the end).

With Larvitar, it could have very easily bonded with Misty or Brock instead. There wasn't a real reason that it bonded with Ash. It's reason for joining the group was because they wanted Ash and friends to do something more "dramatic" after all the boring fillers Jotho was full of previously. Larvitar was played to be The Woobie, due to it's traumatic past and it's healing process.

 

[dman_dustin]

But in these cases, the characters never actually captured the Pokemon they helped. So why is Haunter and Larvitar viewed as something different for Ash?

Because they appeared in more than one episode, and in regards to Haunter Ash had intention to use it against a gym leader.

Remember the end of the episode, remember what the narrator was saying "Ash and the gang leave the ghost Pokemon, but Haunter not wanting to stay behind decides to travel with our gang" That is almost exactly what usually happens with Captures. Said Pokemon doesn't want a character to leave and someone catches them.

Besides then remember what Sabrina's father said "Haunter decided to stay with Sabrina" had Haunter not wanted to stay with Sabrina, would it somehow not follow Ash anymore. Sorry that doesn't make sense. I think the only reason Ash didn't catch it with a Poke ball, is because I don't think Ash knew he could. After all at the time, Ghost Pokemon were mysterious (only 3 species in existence, all from the same evolutionary line), wouldn't it be possible that Ash didn't think Ghost Pokemon could be captured, after all aside from smacking Jessie with a Poke ball he didn't exactly try.
------------------------

Larvitar is a different case as well but I still consider it one of his Pokemon. He hatched the egg, it only bonded with him for the moment. Ash seemed to be the only one to "control" it. After all Larvitar was scared of Pokemon as well. Larvitar also was in quite a few episode, less than Jigglypuff but more than any recurring wild Pokemon. Ash also commanded it to use hidden power.

Ash was a motherly figure to Larvitar until they reached Mt. Silver. That's a lot like Togepi and Misty. So then why is Togepi considered Misty's Pokemon while Larvitar in the exact same "position" is not considered. And no Ash already having six Pokemon while Misty only had five is unacceptable, because regardless it still didn't have a Poke ball. The only argument for Togepi was in the massive amount of episodes it was in. But nonetheless Larvitar was in multiple episodes (more than one or two episodes) as well.

There wasn't a real reason that it bonded with Ash.

How'd you forget the dream that Ash had? Besides Ash cared deeply for the egg and Larvitar a little more than either Brock or Misty. Ash bonded with Larvitar alone when Team Rocket attacked, and sort of brought Larvitar out of its shell. Ash was trying to do everything for Larvitar. Why would Larvitar bond with people who didn't care for it as much?

 

[Cybersai]

Because they appeared in more than one episode, and in regards to Haunter Ash had intention to use it against a gym leader.

So if Stantler or Swablu were in 2-parters, and traveled with the group for an extra ep instead of one, you would consider them Brock or May's Pokemon respectively?

Why do you think so many people say, "I wish Ash captured a ghost Pokemon for once." Doesn't that imply most people believe Haunter was never Ash's, thus he didn't have a ghost Pokemon?

So then why is Togepi considered Misty's Pokemon while Larvitar in the exact same "position" is not considered. And no Ash already having six Pokemon while Misty only had five is unacceptable, because regardless it still didn't have a Poke ball.

Misty never went over her limit of 6 Pokemon. Togepi counted as one of the 6.

Larvitar was around when Ash had Bayleef, Cynda, Totodile, Noctowl, Phanpy and Pikachu with him. If Larvitar was officially Ash's it should have went to Oak's lab.

I know Larvitar and Ash were very close, but so were Brock/May/Max to their Pokemon they befriended.

 

[dman_dustin]

So if Stantler or Swablu were in 2-parters, and traveled with the group for an extra ep instead of one, you would consider them Brock or May's Pokemon respectively?

If Brock or May actually had intention of using it some fashion. We will have to ignore Brock because he has no important plot goal that would require use of a Pokemon. But May, if she actually entered a contest with said Swablu, and even if said Swablu failed and at the end found its family, the yes I would consider Swablu one of May's Pokemon

Why do you think so many people say, "I wish Ash captured a ghost Pokemon for once." Doesn't that imply most people believe Haunter was never Ash's, thus he didn't have a ghost Pokemon?

Actually I think it's pretty even, I've seen quite a few who don't include ghost in the types Ash never had. Besides if you want to argue that then technically you can argue Ash has never trained a ghost Pokemon before.

Larvitar was around when Ash had Bayleef, Cynda, Totodile, Noctowl, Phanpy and Pikachu with him. If Larvitar was officially Ash's it should have went to Oak's lab.

Pikachu, Heracross, Bayleef, Tauros, Muk, Snorlax, and Charizard, Johto League.

And how does that make sense anyway? Is the Pokedex telepathic and can send a 7th non Poke ball Pokemon to the lab, because it read Ash's mind. And how does it send a Pokemon without a Poke ball. Way to many flaws in that argument.

I know Larvitar and Ash were very close, but so were Brock/May/Max to their Pokemon they befriended.

7 episodes compared to what?

Besides if you think Larvitar could've survived without Ash, you are mistaken. All the other Pokemon even Brock's "Stantler" could take care of themselves. Larvitar could not. Larvitar needed Ash until Ash brought it to it's mother. Ash just couldn't say goodbye and move on. He had to take care of Larvitar and he wanted to as well. It's not like it was a burden or anything. It was Ash's choice without reluctance. If need be Ash probably would've stayed with Larvitar even if it meant missing the Johto League. Of course then he might've used a Poke ball for convenience sake.

 

[Cybersai]

But May, if she actually entered a contest with said Swablu, and even if said Swablu failed and at the end found its family, the yes I would consider Swablu one of May's Pokemon

The Gym battle wasn't a serious match though, there was no match. Ash also didn't even care that Haunter was staying with Sabrina.

We've also seen trainers use rental Pokemon before, in "Pasta La Vista" from Battle Frontier, we see Ash battle using Hitmonlee and May battling with Hitmonchan. They simply borrowed the Pokemon from the trainers in the ep. They both battled with them in a real battle. Nobody considers the Hitmon's to belong to them.

Pikachu, Heracross, Bayleef, Tauros, Muk, Snorlax, and Charizard, Johto League.

I assume that was because the writers can't have Pikachu go to Oak's, yet wanted it to sit out of the Gary match. That is one oddity, yes, but we still know Pikachu is owned with a Pokeball, whereas Larvitar had none.

7 episodes compared to what?

Larvitar was simply part of a mini-arc rather than just a filler like the others were. It had a more important story, of course, but right from its debut episode, Ash knew he had to take it to Mt. Silver. There was never the intention on keeping it. He did use it in battle to blast TR off, but then again he does that with wild Pokemon to from time to time in certain eps.

I agree with everything you say about Larvitar being close to Ash and considered it his mother, but a close friendship with a Pokemon is IMO, not the same as owning it. Max and Ralts had an almost similar situation. Ralts, so far, is not Max's Pokemon. If he does back when he's older it will be, but right now Max never actually owned a Pokemon. Max/Ralts and Ash/Larvitar are the same deal, instead one is part of a mini-arc and the other a single ep.

 

[Clod]

I don't consider either of them captures. I think Larvitar "belonged"(maybe not the best word) to Ash though, temporarily, since Ash was basically raising it and they shared a special bond.

Pikachu, Heracross, Bayleef, Tauros, Muk, Snorlax, and Charizard, Johto League.

All of Ash's pokemon were with him while he stayed at the town where the Johto league was at. Technically pikachu wasn't on his team during that battle.

 

[dman_dustin]

The Gym battle wasn't a serious match though, there was no match. Ash also didn't even care that Haunter was staying with Sabrina.

Ash really didn't care when he gave Primeape away.

We've also seen trainers use rental Pokemon before, in "Pasta La Vista" from Battle Frontier, we see Ash battle using Hitmonlee and May battling with Hitmonchan. They simply borrowed the Pokemon from the trainers in the ep. They both battled with them in a real battle. Nobody considers the Hitmon's to belong to them.

Haunter was wild, Rental Pokemon actually have trainers. And why Ash would refuse Misty's Pokemon and be fine with Haunter is beyond me.

And again the only reason it wasn't a serious match was because of Haunter's poison cowardice. If Haunter was Pikachu brave then it would've been a real match.

I assume that was because the writers can't have Pikachu go to Oak's, yet wanted it to sit out of the Gary match. That is one oddity, yes, but we still know Pikachu is owned with a Pokeball, whereas Larvitar had none.

And it exactly gave Larvitar special privileges.

Besides let's look at Misty's Togepi, if she (assume she's a trainer, like Ash) did catch a seventh Pokemon would said Pokemon teleport despite Togepi not having a Poke ball.

Larvitar was simply part of a mini-arc rather than just a filler like the others were. It had a more important story, of course, but right from its debut episode, Ash knew he had to take it to Mt. Silver. There was never the intention on keeping it. He did use it in battle to blast TR off, but then again he does that with wild Pokemon to from time to time in certain eps.

I agree with everything you say about Larvitar being close to Ash and considered it his mother, but a close friendship with a Pokemon is IMO, not the same as owning it.

I feel like we're repeating the same arguments, but Ash never had any intention of keeping Lapras either (which is a shame by the way) and it happened, he released Lapras to it's family. The only difference is Poke ball status, why should that really matter when talking about being owned by someone? Why can't Pokemon have examples of real life. We don't contain pets in small balls as data but they still belong to us right? Why can't some of that translate into Pokemon.

All of Ash's pokemon were with him while he stayed at the town where the Johto league was at. Technically pikachu wasn't on his team during that battle.

Unless the Pokedex was somehow temporarily disabled, location wouldn't have mattered. The rules state that only SIX Pokemon maybe on a person (trainer) at any time. Now Professor Oak could've pulled some strings, but the fact remains. Ash had six Poke ball Pokemon with him, and Pikachu. Now I know I argue that this could be remedied, Pikachu's Poke ball being sent to Oak's lab for example, but still it was seven Pokemon that belonged to him. And at that moment in time Pikachu was not considered a Poke ball Pokemon and didn't magically with no reason teleport to Oak's lab.

The argument was if Larvitar was Ash's why didn't it teleport? My argument is, because it didn't have a Poke ball, simple as. And it wouldn't have made sense if Larvitar was teleported without a Poke ball.

 

[PDL]

Haunter was wild, Rental Pokemon actually have trainers. And why Ash would refuse Misty's Pokemon and be fine with Haunter is beyond me.

He was desparete to win, but didn't want to resort to using someone else's trained Pokémon to do it, especially Misty's.

 

[Ampharos King]

Ash never officially caught Haunter or Larvitar (in the latter's instance, Ash already had 6 pokemon. If Larvitar was truly captured, it would have been sent to Oak's).
On that note, I never considered Togepi to be a "capture" of Misty's since it was never placed in a Pokeball.

 

[Cybersai]

Ash really didn't care when he gave Primeape away.

Not entirely true. The idea of Primeape becoming a true P1 champion is why he left it. Haunter is assumingly Sabrina's Pokemon now. Ash had no attachment to Haunter whatsoever. He simply had no control over it regardless.

And it exactly gave Larvitar special privileges.
Besides let's look at Misty's Togepi, if she (assume she's a trainer, like Ash) did catch a seventh Pokemon would said Pokemon teleport despite Togepi not having a Poke ball.

I think the fact the writers never did have Misty capture anything else once she got her full team of 6 means the Pokeball thing probably would have happened. There's no reason Misty should be allowed to have 7 Pokemon when no other trainer could, hence why the writers didn't have her capture anything after Corsola during Johto.

The only difference is Poke ball status, why should that really matter when talking about being owned by someone? Why can't Pokemon have examples of real life. We don't contain pets in small balls as data but they still belong to us right? Why can't some of that translate into Pokemon.

Lapras was used in the first Orange Island Gym, and in the Drake championship match against his Gengar. Ash planned to return Lapras too, but for the time being, it was officially captured and used in Orange Islands' Gym badges, and its in the hall of fame picture with Ash's other Pokemon.

I can see what you would mean if Haunter had a proper Gym battle, but it didn't happen, Ash couldn't command it in battle, it had no Pokeball, and Ash had no attachment to it...it simply didn't seem like a capture. As said, early Kanto was still ironing out the kinks of the series, so its no different than the way other parts of it look like an oddity compared to later times.

 

[Legacy]

It doesn't really matter IMO, because in any case, Ash befriended them, which he does with ALL of his Pokemon anyway.

But I voted for 'Ash bonded with them, but never truly captured them.'

 

[Clod]

Unless the Pokedex was somehow temporarily disabled, location wouldn't have mattered. The rules state that only SIX Pokemon maybe on a person (trainer) at any time. Now Professor Oak could've pulled some strings, but the fact remains. Ash had six Poke ball Pokemon with him, and Pikachu. Now I know I argue that this could be remedied, Pikachu's Poke ball being sent to Oak's lab for example, but still it was seven Pokemon that belonged to him. And at that moment in time Pikachu was not considered a Poke ball Pokemon and didn't magically with no reason teleport to Oak's lab.

Prof Oak said that he sent Ash all of his pokemon.. whether it was an exception for the league or not wasn't explained, but it can still explain how he had 6 pokemon plus pikachu with him.

 

[Absur'd]

Rentals.

 

[Daxdiv]

Personally, I feel like that Haunter and Larvitar to be Pokemon that he bonded with rather than caught. It might be game logic kicking in, but if he didn't catch it in a Pokeball, he didn't catch it, period. Larvitar was more of an escort mission than anything else, since he had to deliver it. As for Haunter, kind of mixed on that really, I thought it was his at first, but considering how he didn't even have control of it at first, I thought it was a Pokemon goofing around doing nothing until it saved Ash from fighting Sabrina.

 

[Piplup]

Haunter simply agreed to help Ash in the Gym Battle, that's all... it didn't even seriously battle for him
Also, I hate it when people say Haunter belongs to Sabrina... why do people think so? just because it stood near her at the end? it probably just went back to its friends... it was just playing around for a while
Larvitar had a very special bond with Ash and they both cared a lot for each other, but it was never his own Poké, Ash simply accepted a mission to deliver the egg, it just happened that the egg already hatched on the way and then he simply decided to help that Larvitar and befriend it, even if it wasn't really his own Poké

Also, why people act as if Spurt was the only time we had an OP/ED that featured Ash's old Poké?
Glory Day existed too ( http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/GLORY_DAY_~That_Shining_Day~ )
And Glory Day showed all of Ash's olds that are in Spurt, and it didn't show Larvitar like Spurt did... (and sure not Haunter)

 

[Insanish Danish]

I never considered Haunter and Larvitar to be true captures. Ash befriended them, but there's a difference between catching a Pokemon and befriending them.

 

[Our Wasted Years]

They never went inside a Pokeball so no they were befriended.

 

[dman_dustin]

Also, I hate it when people say Haunter belongs to Sabrina... why do people think so?

Assuming I posted it in here you really need to read my posts.

Sabrina's father specifically said Haunter was staying with Sabrina, which is why it didn't continue to follow Ash. (OH please memory don't fail me now)

Lol and I love how Pokemon need to be in a Poke ball to be considered one of their Pokemon. And yet the only justification for Misty's Togepi is that she had 5 Pokemon plus Togepi. Well I'm pretty sure Ash didn't have six Pokemon with Haunter since you know he released Butterfree only episodes prior.