Different Ways of Evolution?

[Life]

While coming up with ideas and plots of Poison Touch 2.0, I was thinking about how to evolve the Pokémon in the world. I'm trying to make the story more realistic and less 'magical', if you will, to try and give the story a more unique setting.

So my question is, would it be good/interesting to play around with seemingly simple evolution, or should things like that be left untouched?

I had the idea of having them age like humans, where over time they gain traits/abilities. The names of Pokémon are like that of which we call ourselves, babies, kids, adults, etc. So for example, a Pichu would be considered a baby, Pikachu a teen/young adult, and a Raichu a fully grown adult. To elaborate further, overtime, Pichu's ears would become sleeker, its cheeks redder, and grow in size, instead of just one big metamorphosis.

I'm not really a fan of the whole 'glowing light' and 'shape shifting' thing to begin with, and as I mentioned earlier I want to make the story seem less 'magical' than the Pokémon World we know to be.

Actually, bringing up the Pichu line, I'm now wondering how you would handle Pokémon who evolve with stones. Well, I guess if you can play around with one aspect of it, you can play around with another?

Thoughts?

 

[Beth Pavell]

I think the problem you'll quickly run into is how you explain evolutions that very radically change the appearance of the pokémon, such as Remoraid-Octillery. Very radical changes to body shape and and do happen in the real world, but they usually either happen though shedding skin - like a dragonfly - or through metamorphosis. You might find that coming up with transitory forms for pokémon might be difficult to maintain - I for one would probably begin to lose interest if the story kept stopping to tell me what a mid-evolution pokémon looks like

 

[Life]

I think the problem you'll quickly run into is how you explain evolutions that very radically change the appearance of the pokémon, such as Remoraid-Octillery.

Very true; I hadn't thought of that. I suppose I could say that its fins started changing into tentacles, but that would make just as much sense as the glowing light.

Very radical changes to body shape and and do happen in the real world, but they usually either happen though shedding skin - like a dragonfly - or through metamorphosis. You might find that coming up with transitory forms for pokémon might be difficult to maintain - I for one would probably begin to lose interest if the story kept stopping to tell me what a mid-evolution pokémon looks like

Maybe. I mean, I would describe what the Pokémon looks like no matter what, but it's true that with the train of thought I've created it would be possible to have 5+ middle forms, which yeah, would get really hectic. Thanks for the advice!

I'm still thinking about other things I could do, instead of just the white light. No ideas come to mind though. :I

 

[reynard]

I'd leave the glowing effect. I consider it a form of science fiction rather than magic, and it's covered under willing suspension of disbelief. As for considering the stages as age ranges, I think that's the general idea anyway, that evolution is like growing up. And the whole rapid evolution with a flash is used because the story just does time to show a gradual transition.

Though you could still use the idea that Pokemon physically develop or hit growth milestones within their stages. I've actually written a few headcanon blogs on Pokemon realism and growth and development.

 

[Legacy]

I struggled with this too, as I enjoy writing more "realistically" as well. But the subject in and of itself is fantastic in nature: a mouse that can shoot electricity, a lizard shooting plant vines and a huge collection of sharp leaves out of itself, etc. The more abrupt style of glowing and then quickly transforming doesn't seem that far out of place, even in a more "realistic" world.

 

[CrystaI]

I guess everyone in here is just getting too obsess about the word "evolution", where IMO the Evolution (notice the capital letter) of Pokemon is not the literal "evolution". I personally views the Evolution of Pokemon is more like a mutation, not even like metamorphosis. The latter is a gradual process, whereas the former is more sudden.

Although the physical change process of Pokemon is named as "Evolution", but that doesn't mean it is the same "evolution" as in our real world's literal meaning. I personally just view the world "Evolution" as a name placeholder for that physical change process of Pokemon, where inside my brain I treat it as a sudden mutation process.

Because Pokemon are not real right from the start. They are fantastic creatures living inside a fantasy fictional world, having supernatural power of not only able to process elemental attacks, but could also bending the physical laws of the world. Therefore I do not tend to explain the Evolution process (and also many other things within the Poke-universe) using any of the real world theories, but rather made up my own theories that seems logical within the Poke-universe context. Although I do adapts many of the real world theories, but not all will be use, especially when the real world theories contradicts the physics of the Poke-universe.



But, since the OP do not want a "fantastic magical" Pokemon world, guess I'll save my fictional Evolution theory for next time, since that is not what the OP asks for.

But also I want to add one more thing before I post and leave: Going towards the realistic approach is not necessarily the most logical and rational approach. This is especially true in fantastic fictions.

 

[Warrior of Fire]

Sorry, wrong thread.

 

[Legacy]

I guess everyone in here is just getting too obsess about the word "evolution", where IMO the Evolution (notice the capital letter) of Pokemon is not the literal "evolution". I personally views the Evolution of Pokemon is more like a mutation, not even like metamorphosis. The latter is a gradual process, whereas the former is more sudden.

Although the physical change process of Pokemon is named as "Evolution", but that doesn't mean it is the same "evolution" as in our real world's literal meaning. I personally just view the world "Evolution" as a name placeholder for that physical change process of Pokemon, where inside my brain I treat it as a sudden mutation process.

Because Pokemon are not real right from the start. They are fantastic creatures living inside a fantasy fictional world, having supernatural power of not only able to process elemental attacks, but could also bending the physical laws of the world. Therefore I do not tend to explain the Evolution process (and also many other things within the Poke-universe) using any of the real world theories, but rather made up my own theories that seems logical within the Poke-universe context. Although I do adapts many of the real world theories, but not all will be use, especially when the real world theories contradicts the physics of the Poke-universe.



But, since the OP do not want a "fantastic magical" Pokemon world, guess I'll save my fictional Evolution theory for next time, since that is not what the OP asks for.

But also I want to add one more thing before I post and leave: Going towards the realistic approach is not necessarily the most logical and rational approach. This is especially true in fantastic fictions.

I don't think anyone is mistaking the "evolution" that goes on in Pokemon for the typical scientific term (dinosaurs evolving into birds, for example).

Most people view Pokemon evolution like you, a sudden change in body and power based on the progress made by a Pokemon.

I think the OP is just wondering how to describe such a sudden change in a more "realistic" world.

 

[Lord Kyuubi]

I have evolution occurring generally as a steady process over time, like growth. Then, at a specific point, the main 'evolution' occurs in much a similar way to a 'growth spurt' of sorts. This 'evolutionary period' or whatever you want to call it would be when the most significant changes occur, eg, charmeleon growing wings to become charizard, an eevee getting fins and stuff to become a vaporeon, etc.

Actually, now that I think about it, I have a specific and rather unusual approach to how eevee evolves. In my world, any specific eevee has its evolution 'pre-set' - it will evolve into one specific eeveelution and cannot evolve into any of the others. This means that the eevees will always display some signs of which eeveelution they will evolve into - a future flareon will always be very fluffy, while a future espeon would be noticeably slimmer. A future umbreon would always have quite dark fur, whereas a future sylveon would be quite pale. It makes sense, when you think about it, or at least, I hope it does.

One notable thing about evolution I use is that a pokemon's eyes are always the same before and after evolving. That was really just a neat touch I quite liked, but I felt it was worth bringing up.

 

[Life]

But, since the OP do not want a "fantastic magical" Pokemon world, guess I'll save my fictional Evolution theory for next time, since that is not what the OP asks for.

But also I want to add one more thing before I post and leave: Going towards the realistic approach is not necessarily the most logical and rational approach. This is especially true in fantastic fictions.

I never said the fantastic part, but yes, I'm just looking to write a more realistic setting rather than something as light as the Pokémon World. Even if the realistic approach is not the most logical and rational approach, I'm still going to stick with it. The main person I'm aiming to impress with my stories are myself, so I'll stick with that. Thank you though for the heads-up.

I think the OP is just wondering how to describe such a sudden change in a more "realistic" world.

Yeah, this is basically the key thing I was wondering. I have no qualms with fiction, and I enjoy reading it very much, but I find more gratitude writing more-realistically

 

[AetherX]

Here are some random ideas I had, a combination of these would probably work best:

Certain Pokemon would very much make sense with the slowly growing over time option that you thought of. Like the Bulbasaur family for example. It would have to be a very long process, or certain bits of growth could be significant enough to warrant description. Do you describe the differences in a human character as they age? Probably not, as most stories don't take place over that long of a period. You'd have to make some kind of sacrifice in that sense.

You could also throw canon out the window and do something like have each evolutionary level be a totally different species, just related. This would probably work best in conjunction with the first option.

Or if all else fails you could just do the glowing light method sans the actual glowing light. Just describe a sudden, violent mutation a la this video (the bit I'm referencing is only a few seconds long). Realistic? Not really, but as クリスタル said, neither is the entire premise of Pokemon. Just remember you're writing fiction anyway and despite trying to be super realistic, it's still fiction. Explanations and believability is where realism comes from.

 

[PiccoloX]

Think of each Pokemon going through a metamorphosis. Look at the RL aspects of insects that do this. Look at how rats essentially evolved into every mammal on the planet. Combined these processes in a logical, explainable way.

That, or you could pull a DBZ ripoff and just make it like going Super Saijin.

 

[CrystaI]

That, or you could pull a DBZ ripoff and just make it like going Super Saijin.

The Dragonball series itself is a battle action fantasy fiction, filled with non-real superpower abnormal human beings that can shoot beam from one's own hand and float in mid-air with one's will (or ki, to be more specific). You wanted to tell the OP to pull its theories and mechanics on Pokemon, where the Dragonball universe is not anything "real" at all right from the start?



Now I had re-read the entire thread again, I guess the question focus of OP is not really about the "magicalness and fantasticism" of the Pokemon world, but is more about explaining the evolution of Pokemon in a more scientifically justifiable and logically plausible manner.

Sorry I'll be a bit blunt in here. The entire Pokemon series is fantastic and magical right from the start, you can't deny this fact. But that doesn't mean it is "unrealistic", "illogical" and/or "light-hearted". More importantly, the light-heartedness of the Pokemon world is not due to the imaginary fantasy and wonderment of the series, but it is due to how the world was presented within its medium. The Pokemon world inside my fanfic is also fantastic and adventurous filled with wonders just like any of its canon, but I portray it as much more dangerous, and story itself is in a very serious and sombre tone.

Yes, the Pokemon anime portray the Pokemon world in such childish manner where the world looks so simplistic and comical, every difficult things such as detailed explanation of the governmental rules of the community, the background history of the world, nor the debatable gray moral that is neither black nor white, are all dropped. Everyone are friends that helps each others out in difficult times, including the strangers meet at first time and wild Pokemon that tries to attack you out of their instincts. 10-year-old kids can travel into the deep forest without worries of dying from attacks of wild Pokemon, because attacks of Pokemon are never fatal, nor even damaging. No Pokemon will die from battles, no trainers will worry about getting hurt by missed or stray shots. In many anime audiences' eyes, the Pokemon anime world is Utopia.
But then, we have the Pokemon games world that is portrayed in a more non-childish and combative (not just competitive) manner. All the comical slapsticks are dropped, battles becomes the main focus, and there are villains with goals and/or morals. Although I do admit that the deep background details such as government, moral standards, and/or any other scientific theories of Pokemon are not explained, but still the game world is a lot more mature than the anime world.
Then we have the Pokemon Special manga world, where it is not just generally more detailed than the former two canon worlds, but also a lot more dangerous and logical. Although the travelling parts are also quite light-hearted, but when it comes to battle, the dangerousness of Pokemon can be seen directly, trainers could become severely injured in Pokemon battles, there are death in the Special manga world. And for the details of the world mechanism, they are explained here and there quite often during the story, or at the data profile at the end of each volume. The Pokemon Special manga is just lot more serious and "realistic".

"Realistic" might not be the best word in here, because it could mean many things within literature context. It could mean "rejection of the impracticals", "non-abstract", "non-imaginary and non-fantastical", "unidealization and unromanticization", "pragmatism", etc. BUT! It is just doesn't contains the meaning of being logical.
Being "logical" is something completely different from being "realistic". It may means "making sense", "analytical and justifiable", "being able to express in consistent valid reasons", "related to a set of ordered elements", etc.
You can have a realistic story but with illogical reasoning, and you can have an unrealistic story but yet with very decent logics.

The evolution of Pokemon which is an abrupt irreversible mutation, together with the glowing light effect during the process as shown in any canon, is absolutely "unrealistic" even in my opinions (Besides, Pokemon itself is unrealistic from the very beginning). But, that doesn't mean it is illogical. The key point is to give a valid reasons and plausible explanations.


For me personally, I don't like to alter the seeable facts that are shown directly in canons, so I just adapt such sudden evolution together with the glowing light effects in my own fanfics. But then I do give my own logical explanations which are never explained in details in any of the Pokemon canons.
In my own theory, Pokemon need to gain a specific kind of energy inside their own body in order to be able to evolve. The method of gaining such energy is differ according to each species of Pokemon, some gains by fighting continuously, some gains automatically by maintaining their affections towards its trainer, some gains from the items, etc. The glowing light effects during the evolution process is due to the outburst of such energy when it had reaches the norm to evolve the Pokemon.
And for the duration of the evolution process, inside my head I always imagine it as those evolution animation like in Digimon series, just a sudden mutation to complete different new species of a higher stage. Ah, forget to say I view each single Pokemon species as complete different individual, even it is within the same evolution family.


Edit: But, if you like to ignore what the canon had already shown to us that evolution is a sudden mutation, rather treat it as a slow growing process, that is also fine. After all, that is your own fiction.
It is just that, IMO, treating evolution as a slow growth process will rather give many contradictions to canon materials, and also many other counter problems.

 

[Life]

Spoiler

Now I had re-read the entire thread again, I guess the question focus of OP is not really about the "magicalness and fantasticism" of the Pokemon world, but is more about explaining the evolution of Pokemon in a more scientifically justifiable and logically plausible manner.

Sorry I'll be a bit blunt in here. The entire Pokemon series is fantastic and magical right from the start, you can't deny this fact. But that doesn't mean it is "unrealistic", "illogical" and/or "light-hearted".
Yes, the Pokemon anime portray the Pokemon world in such childish manner where the world looks so simplistic and comical, every difficult things such as detailed explanation of the governmental rules of the community, the background history of the world, nor the debatable gray moral that is neither black nor white, are all dropped. Everyone are friends that helps each others out in difficult times, including the strangers meet at first time and wild Pokemon that tries to attack you out of their instincts. 10-year-old kids can travel into the deep forest without worries of dying from attacks of wild Pokemon, because attacks of Pokemon are never fatal, nor even damaging. No Pokemon will die from battles, no trainers will worry about being hit by missed or stray shots. In many anime audiences' eyes, the world of Pokemon anime is Utopia.
But then, we have the Pokemon games world that is portrayed in a more non-childish and combative (not just competitive) manner . All the comical slapsticks are dropped, battles becomes the main focus, and there are villains goals and/or morals. Although I do admit that the deep background details such as government, moral standards, and/or any other scientific theories of Pokemon are not explained, but still the game world is a lot more mature than the anime world.
Again we have then the Pokemon Special manga world, where it is not just generally more detailed than the former two canon worlds, but also a lot more dangerous and logical. Although the travelling parts are quite light-hearted, but when it comes to battle, the dangerousness of Pokemon can be seen directly, trainers could become severely injured in Pokemon battles, there are death in the Special manga world. And for the details of the world mechanism, they are explained here and there quite often during the story, or at the data profile at the end of each volume. The Pokemon Special manga is just lot more serious and "realistic".

"Realistic" might not be the best word in here, because it could mean many things within literature context. It could mean "rejection of the impracticals", "non-abstract", "non-imaginary and non-fantastical", "unidealization and unromanticization", "pragmatism", etc. BUT! It is just doesn't contains the meaning of being logical.
Being "logical" is something completely different from being "realistic". It may means "making sense", "analytical and justifiable", "being able to express in consistent valid reasons", "related to a set of ordered elements", etc.
You can have a realistic story but with illogical reasoning, and you can have an unrealistic story but yet with very decent logics.

The evolution of Pokemon which is an abrupt irreversible mutation, together with the glowing light effect during the process as shown in any canon, is absolutely "unrealistic" even in my opinions (Besides, Pokemon itself is unrealistic from the very beginning). But, that doesn't mean it is illogical. The key point is to give a valid reasons and plausible explanations.


For me personally, I don't like to alter the seeable facts that are shown directly in canons, so I just adapt such sudden evolution together with the glowing light effects in my own fanfics. But then I do give my own logical explanations which are never explained in details in any of the Pokemon canons.
In my own theory, Pokemon need to gain a specific kind of energy inside their own body in order to be able to evolve. The method of gaining such energy is differ according to each species of Pokemon, some gains by fighting continuously, some gains automatically by maintaining their affections towards its trainer, some gains from the items, etc. The glowing light effects during the evolution process is due to the outburst of such energy when it had reaches the norm to evolve the Pokemon.
And for the duration of the evolution process, inside my head I always imagine it as those evolution animation like in Digimon series, just a sudden mutation to complete different new species of a higher stage. Ah, forget to say I view each single Pokemon species as complete different individual, even it is within the same evolution family.


Edit: But, if you like to ignore what the canon had already shown to us that evolution is a sudden mutation, rather treat it as a slow growing process, that is also fine. After all, that is your own fiction.
It is just that, IMO, treating evolution as a slow growth process will rather give many contradictions to canon materials, and also many other counter problems.

Can't really argue with ya' here. I don't read the Pokemon manga, so credit that if you will for my ignorance of calling the world 'lighthearted'. I'll try to stick to canon, but even so I think I'll be tempted to test things on the border. This advice has actually really helped me sort out how to showcase the ideas I have planned, so I want to thank you a great deal for that.

 

[PiccoloX]

That, or you could pull a DBZ ripoff and just make it like going Super Saijin.

The Dragonball series itself is a battle action fantasy fiction, filled with non-real superpower abnormal human beings that can shoot beam from one's own hand and float in mid-air with one's will (or ki, to be more specific). You wanted to tell the OP to pull its theories and mechanics on Pokemon, where the Dragonball universe is not anything "real" at all right from the start?

It's all dependent on who your target audience is. The average Pokemon gamer isn't going to care about the science behind the evolution. In fact, don't bother trying to explain it. Let your gradual story lead the readers to believe that evolving is neither fast nor slow.

Look into the science yourself. Choose what you think is right based on how large of a role time plays in your story. If you try to explain every detail you'll end up with a wall of text that doesn't really answer anything like this huge post above me and nobody wants to read that. :/

If your stuck without an answer look to a similar source of instant evolution, like Dragonball Z, and come up with your own theories based on evolution that isn't hidden by a bright light. When you have that theory down, see how it relates to Pokemon evolution.


Don't just look for the answers you seek in a single location. Look at old baby pictures of yourself, your life, then compress everything into a matter of seconds and think "I wonder if that's what Pokemon evolution is like?"

 

[Beth Pavell]

I am generally of the opinion that magic should never be explained. For me, when the magic is explained it is no longer magic, and the joy of pokémon is in the fantasy of the world. Be that as it may, I think that it's possible to get too hung up on the word "realistic". To my mind, the pokémon world of the manga is no more realistic than the world of the anime. Given that pokémon is inherently a fantastic world, I think any attempts to write it as more realistic are going to be a balancing act. As far as evolution is concerned, rather than alter the process of metamorphosis, it might be a better idea to explore what triggers evolution in greater detail - be that mental maturing, experience in battle, environmental factors, whatever

 

[reynard]

I am generally of the opinion that magic should never be explained. For me, when the magic is explained it is no longer magic, and the joy of pokémon is in the fantasy of the world. Be that as it may, I think that it's possible to get too hung up on the word "realistic". To my mind, the pokémon world of the manga is no more realistic than the world of the anime. Given that pokémon is inherently a fantastic world, I think any attempts to write it as more realistic are going to be a balancing act. As far as evolution is concerned, rather than alter the process of metamorphosis, it might be a better idea to explore what triggers evolution in greater detail - be that mental maturing, experience in battle, environmental factors, whatever

Agreed. Some of it needs to hinge on willing suspension. But at the same time some degree of careful realism can flesh the world out and make it stronger while still maintaining its majesty. Though I would call evolution more sci-fi than magic. But then again, I believe there is a saying that "magic and sufficiently advanced science are indistinguishable."

The point I think it to treat the world like a story, let it live in all its details. Follow ideas to logical conclusions. And as I said in other places, just because you can have Pokemon still evolve super fast doesn't mean you still can't show them growing and maturing within their stages. They seem to have growth benchmarks, like how Brock's Bonsly started with no teeth but grew teeth and was able to eat a solid diet not long before evolving. Or as another example, how I theorized that Lt. Surge's Raichu was too slow because in evolving too fast, it's legs never went through a particular stage of muscle growth it was supposed to go through during the Pikachu stage. Because of this, it's hind leg muscles weren't right, so it couldn't run at the sort of speed needed for things like Quick Attack and Agility.

Although again, that may have meant that Pikachu was beating down a disabled Pokemon...*grimaces again*