Discussion - Move tutors/Level up additions

[The Outrage]

Courtesy of Smogon's Pokémon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mark 3 (competitive discussion)

Seriosuly, they're the only ones who I found that actually have a list of all the Pokémon who get the move tutor moves.

So being in the RMT, I think its self explanitory what this thread is for. Don't discuss things like "Wow, Luxray get's Magnet Rise -_-" but more like how you think it would affect competitive battling or ingame for things like PBR or the Battle Frontier.

Stuff is too long for me to c/p hence the link (also the giving credit where credit is due)

Other than the whole Salamence in bed with Outrage, there's also Azelf with Elemental Punches making physical Azelf a very viable option now. Not to mention that it is yet another Skarmbliss killer.

Dragonite reaquire's his Elemental Punches for a much easier access for wifi battlers. Among his new moveset, the most notable is Super Power, putting him a step above Salamence in terms of mix sweeping, though his speed is still lacking.

Gallade also reacquires its Elemental Punches from Emerald Version's Ralts. Its supportive movepool also increases with Knock Off, though Gardevoir cannot learn this. However, Gardevoir does get the bonus of Trick, and both have Helping Hand for doubles.

Like Outrage seems to have been whored out to every other Dragon other than Dragonite and Rayquaza, oh and Venausar aswell. Though, as I mentioned on another's blog, this is really no big addition to the non-dragons who learn this (such as Laparas) because any base 80 STAB would do as much damage as Outrage minus its negative side effects.

Ludicolo gets access to Dive again, allowing for superstall with Leech Seed and Protect on Raindance teams or on doubles.

Breloom gets Thunderpunch again, and has an easier access to Seed Bomb.

On a random note, my Totodiles are going to lose their value in the trade market, but this means its easier for everyone else to get DD/Ice Punch Feraligatr.

So Discuss

 

[The Outrage]

Oh yeah, I forgot the awsomeness that is Bullet Punch Scizor. I doubt Sky Shaymin is going to be standard for long (need to get back into battling eventhough I might suck now)

It has Serene Grace with Seed Flare. That's an 80% chance of a special attack drop, and it can also pull off Togekiss's paraflinch minus the need for paralysis.This coming from its special attack and speed, I'd bet money that it actually will be uber.

I'm more happy with the Dive/Seed Ludicolo. I think I'm going to use that for the Battle Stage if I don't get around to Rest/Sleep Talk/Flash Cannon/Calm mind Bronzong.

 

[Mukubird]

Having used Outrage Salamence, I can vouch for how over powered it is. Honestly, Outrage Garchomp was already a pain to take care off, espceially if it was Choice Banded, and then they give it to a Dragon which has more base Atk and a move that can boost it and Spd even further. Seeing as CBChomp could 2HKO most of the common walls like Cresselia and Suicune with Outrage when SR is up, CBMence might not even need SR to 2HKO those walls due to higher base Atk. This is also overlooking the fact that Mence still has that 110 SAtk that allows him to decimate physical walls with Draco Meteor or Fire Blast. I'm not sure sure whether it will end up in Uber or not, but I know its usage will increase wherever tier it's at.

As for Scizor, getting Bullet Punch through the Level Up tutor was an unnecessary evil. Gliscor, one of the common walls these days, is 2HKOd by Bullet Punch after Scizor gets an SD up. I'm sure we'll see a rise in usage for Skarmory and Gyarados (even more) as they can take Scizor's hits pretty well.

And honestly, it seems like GameFreak intentionally wanted to make Skymin Uber. If it only had Grass/Flying/HP as its movepool it wouldn't be that much of a problem, they just had to give its Land Forme Earth Power, meaning it won't have to sacrifice HP Ice to hit Heatran now. I am sure, without a doubt that Skymin will be banned to Ubers.

By the way, Skymin keeps its stats and typing when playing against a DP user via Wireless.

 

[The Outrage]

So i was thinking:

Ludicolo @ Big Root/Leftovers
Bold Nature
Trait: Swift Swim
-Dive
-Protect
-Leech Seed
-Toxic

Somwhere along those lines, sure killed by taunters, but it is truely annoying. A step above ToxiTrapping Umbreon, and its not liek Vaporeon likes Toxic or Leech Seed, though Toxicroak and Restalk Suicune might cause it problems. Then again, if Suicune runs Rest/Sleep Talk/Calm Mind/Surf, its going to have a problem with Ludicolo aswell.

Now with my Ludicolo love aside, I do agreet that Salamence is likely going to be uber. If Garchomp was made uber due to its power, surely Salamence, who can pull off almost anything Garchomp can minus STAB EQ is going to be called uber. or atleast people will try to get Garchomp de-uberized by calling on Salamence. Since Salamence has 110 base special, he doesn't need as much EV investment to kill those physical walls. Personally I'd go with something like

Salamence @Life Orb/Lum Berry
Naughty Nature?
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Draco Meteor
-Fire Blast

I forget which stat Naughty decreases, but this is basically reminiscent of Chain Chomp with weaker attack after a DD, but higher speed to thwart the plans of revenge killers. At a glance, it is completely walled by Heatran, though by the time they figure that out, most of the team might be dead. No one is sending in a Heatran on a DD mence without knowing it doesn't have EQ. Looks like Salamence claims its place on the throne once again as the fiercest Dragon in Standard. Even if Garchomp wasn't banned, I'm sure Salamence would have increased in usage significantly.

But this just raises the question, if Salamence gets uber'd for this wouldn't Dragonite?

Though I prefer Salamence doesn't get uber'd so I still have my nice little niche.

 

[Tina]

So i was thinking:

Ludicolo @ Big Root/Leftovers
Bold Nature
Trait: Swift Swim
-Dive
-Protect
-Leech Seed
-Toxic

... Isn't Dive a physical attack now?

Actually, I think I might end up rebreeding my Lotad for my RD team.

(Also, Naughty lowers SpDef.)

Personally, I'm really liking some of the new move tutors (A couple words: Alakazam with Vacuum Wave. :O). Kingdra can finally have a nice physical Dragon STAB (Lots of DDers with Outrage now looks like), my dear Flygon can get Earth Power (woo) and other damn awesome things that I can't quite recall at the moment. Either way, man, I'm really considering getting Platinum just for the move tutors.

Here's one addition that kinda sucks though: Flareon. Flareon did not get Flare Blitz. :< Instead it got Lava fucking Plume. Come on already, it already got Will-O-Wisp and Flamethower, so it didn't really need to combine the two into one I don't think. :/

 

[The Outrage]

So its Impish, for some reason I was thinking Bold for Attack. Excellent, I got the right nature for Salamence. I don't want Defense lowering when I'm likely going to switch in on physical pokemon thanks to Intimidate.

Alakazam with Vaccum wave no longer has to fear Weaviles when they are leading, nor do they have to fear being revenge-killed by them.

 

[Tina]

Huh. Looks like I read something wrong. Apparently 'zam doesn't get Vacuum Wave. ...Lame. >_>

Also, Leafeon gets Aqua Tail. ...What. Just, what.

 

[The Outrage]

Leafeon: Snore, Helping Hand, Synthesis, Last Resort, Swift, Fury Cutter, Knock Off, Mud Slap, Seed Bomb
Glaceon: Mud Slap, Aqua Tail, Signal Beam, Icy Wind, Snore, Helping Hand, Last Resort, Swift

Are you sure that's not Glaceon your looking at?

Glaceon's still a wannabe Vaporeon in terms of competitive play (the horror of Mistylover in SPPf haunts me so)

Nothing notable on Vaporen's Move tutor list, but it does get Muddy Water. Apart from annoying Swampert fans who may get all pissy about this, atleast Vaporeon got a decent move, though similar to surf, atleast it has the benefit of hax.

Honchkrow: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Sucker Punch, Spite, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Superpower, Twister, Heat Wave

Honchkrow with Heatwave or Super Power is going to be able to stop all those annoying Steel Walls that had threatened to stop it before.

As a random ingame thing, GameFreak seems to have felt sorry for how crappy Caterpie and pals are treated early in the game.

Salamence versus Garchomp

-Salamence gets hit by Thunderwave, Garchomp does not meaning it has more switch in oppurtunities
-Salamence doesn't get has much power from DD, but gains speed
-However, Garchomp outspeeds most base 100s without the speed boost, so it has to worry
-Salamence hit by Stealth Rock, but immune to spikes, though it does automatically lose 25%
-No Sand Storm immune
-On the plus side, it does manage to get a speed boost to outspeed any revenge killers not uisng Scarf when it gets locked.
-A higher special attack and a wider movepool means it is more unpredictable than Garchomp.

So what's your verdict? It seems easier to play around Salamence then it is to play aroudn Garchomp, though DD Outrage is still threatening if you don't take care of it.

 

[empoleon dynamite]

Salamence versus Garchomp

-Salamence gets hit by Thunderwave, Garchomp does not meaning it has more switch in oppurtunities
-Salamence doesn't get has much power from DD, but gains speed
-However, Garchomp outspeeds most base 100s without the speed boost, so it has to worry
-Salamence hit by Stealth Rock, but immune to spikes, though it does automatically lose 25%
-No Sand Storm immune
-On the plus side, it does manage to get a speed boost to outspeed any revenge killers not uisng Scarf when it gets locked.
-A higher special attack and a wider movepool means it is more unpredictable than Garchomp.

So what's your verdict? It seems easier to play around Salamence then it is to play aroudn Garchomp, though DD Outrage is still threatening if you don't take care of it.

You forgot one of the most important factors, abilities. Whilst Intimidate is a nice defence boost, Sand Vail has it's advantages. In a sandstorm, Garchomp can render a move like hypnosis (in DP) to the accuracy of Sing.

Also, I just don't feel like DD packs the pure power that SD does. I still think Salamence will be counterable, unlike Chomp.

Other interesting additions I think are curse for both Steelix and Bibarrel.

Simple and Curse coupled with Amnesia should make Bibarrel quite useful, even if it's hard to set up. Maybe Bibarrel will be moved up to BL/OU?

As for Steelix, Curse builds up it's most useful stats and increses the BP of Gyro Ball. I defonitly predict a tier shift for this guy.

 

[The Fake Psychic]

Hmmm. Yanmega seems to have gotten some new toys. Now will it be Confuse Chance over Sp.Def. Drop, or Flinch over Crit, some new thoughts, altough I doubt it will change a lot.

Elemental Punches for Rhyperior may boost it's usage, covering it's Water and Grass weakness. And it gets Outrage also? *_*

Yay- Absol gets Superpower. Not really a boon for raising it's tier for stuff, but I'm going to enjoy it.

Hmmm I say again. Flygon gets Thunder and Fire Punch. Will it boost it's usage or not...

Holy cow, what didn't they slap Outrage on? Feraligatr and Meganium (partly) make sense. Snorlax is pushing it, but AMPHAROS?

A Wurmple with Snore? That's just too nutty for words. As is Ursaring with Seed Bomb...

Why couldn't they just put Seismic Toss as a move tutor also? I don't want to go through trying to get a good Chansey in FireRed... *sob sob*

Finally! no more painful breeding of Sneasel to get Ice Punch.

Looks like Belly Drum/Ice Punch Azumarril will become a reality after all.

OH MY GOSH! MAGIKARP GETS A DAMAGING ATTACK OTHER THAN TACKLE!

... How in the name of Giegue does Electrode punch?

Lol... Pikachu w/ Magnet Rise. That's pretty cool, actually.

My (really random) thoughts about the new move tutors.

 

[The Outrage]

Elemental Punches for Rhyperior may boost it's usage, covering it's Water and Grass weakness. And it gets Outrage also? *_*

snip

Holy cow, what didn't they slap Outrage on? Feraligatr and Meganium (partly) make sense. Snorlax is pushing it, but AMPHAROS?

Not as if its useful to any of those non-dragons, especially if they have a base 80 STAB, or even a base 70 STAB. Seriosuly though, why whore it out so much -_-

OH MY GOSH! MAGIKARP GETS A DAMAGING ATTACK OTHER THAN TACKLE!

It had Flail.

Lol... Pikachu w/ Magnet Rise. That's pretty cool, actually.

My (really random) thoughts about the new move tutors.

Their excuse of Flying Pikachus. Seriosuly though, every single electric Pokemon got Magnet Rise. I get Magnezone, and maybe Raikou, but things liek Ampharos shouldn't be airborn.

On a side-note, I do believe this makes every pure electric type have the ability to have no weakness, though like its that useful for Pikachu. We need fanart of these Pokemon "flying"

 

[Crankyman]

Muddy Water Vaporeon sounds more annoying than Vaporeon already is.

 

[Monblazon]

Their excuse of Flying Pikachus. Seriosuly though, every single electric Pokemon got Magnet Rise. I get Magnezone, and maybe Raikou, but things liek Ampharos shouldn't be airborn.

On a side-note, I do believe this makes every pure electric type have the ability to have no weakness, though like its that useful for Pikachu. We need fanart of these Pokemon "flying"

A little crude, but I only spent a minute on it:

[If it works]

 

[Sigmon]

So what is Dragonite gonna do now mix sweep with superpower and draco meteor?

 

[The Outrage]

I can't see Mence in Ubers. It just doesn't have the raw power Chomp had with Swords Dance, not to mention the incredible dual STAB and overall bulkiness. If you want DDMence to rival Garchomp's power, you have to stick Life Orb on it, which gets rid of the primary thing that made Garchomp Uber: Yache Berry.

Also expressing my sadness for lack of Aqua Jet Poliwrath/Belly Jet Azumarill.

Well Life Orb just makes it even worse in sand so we can scratch that out considering it also loses 25% to stealth rock.

Sigmon, Dragonite can still use the old DDOutrage set. Sure Salamence has it, but unlike Salamence, Dragonite has a bit more defense under its belt, and with Garchomp uber, many of those dragon counters will likely lower their SAtk just to barely kill Salamence.

It still has a supportive movepool, though getting that for Wifi is going to be hard since some of the moves it requires is from XD I believe.

 

[Tina]

Aww... No comments...

..That's because the thread is for discussing move tutor additions, not talking about a random picture. >_>

 

[Monblazon]

..That's because the thread is for discussing move tutor additions, not talking about a random picture. >_>

One: Sorry, I will try to inject more sarcasm into my speech next time.
Two: It was not a random picture.
Three: Everything here is very uptight is it not? What is wrong with a small humourous diversion which does no harm?

Sorry.

 

[The Fake Psychic]

I liked it, but I've been sick most of the morning. Thus, not at a computer. Anyway, I know Magnet Rise and Outrage got sent everywhere. That was just the first time I had seen the list, and I was really bored. And I guess I should have said "Damaging move that's not dependant on if you have 1 hp left." for Magikarp.

 

[Sigmon]

Well Life Orb just makes it even worse in sand so we can scratch that out considering it also loses 25% to stealth rock.

Sigmon, Dragonite can still use the old DDOutrage set. Sure Salamence has it, but unlike Salamence, Dragonite has a bit more defense under its belt, and with Garchomp uber, many of those dragon counters will likely lower their SAtk just to barely kill Salamence.

It still has a supportive movepool, though getting that for Wifi is going to be hard since some of the moves it requires is from XD I believe.

Heal bell is from xd along with a few others

 

[The Outrage]

Or "damaging move that hits Ghosts and gives Gyara flying STAB"

Sure, Bounce may seem sucky at first, yes they can switch out when they see you fly up. But when you think about it there's not much out there that wants to take an 85 BP STAB move from Gyarados, risk getting paralyzed, and then actually face Gyara when it comes down.

Problem with that is Gyarados is staying up there so free entry for its counters who might just risk the paralysis. Personally a base 80 STAB with Flinch is more appealing.

But you know, people will atleast shut up about the Gyarados and flying moves issue (or they'll rant about it not getting a better one)

Also Lucario with Elemental punches. I remember the day where people were all like "Use special, its special attack is higher", well atleast the newbies anyway, luckily I was one of the few that realised its attack stat isn't that much lower and it gets Swords Dance. Now with the elemental punches, anything a mixed or special set can provide, the physical one can do on its own aswell.



Since its late, I'll do calcs later for common physical walls. Of course, this just means special Lucario becomes more of a surprise since physical Lucario looks as though it is becoming dominant

One: Sorry, I will try to inject more sarcasm into my speech next time.
Two: It was not a random picture.
Three: Everything here is very uptight is it not? What is wrong with a small humourous diversion which does no harm?

Sorry.

When you need to bring attention to your attempt to be funny, its usually because its not. The first time was just a bad attempt, the brining attention is just spam.