Do the twerps seem superfluous to the movies?

[matt0044]

Like... it sometimes feels like Ash and co. are just there while the Pokemon the film is focusing on is the real star, making out heroes secondary characters if anything at all. Hell, "I Choose You" was one of my favorites because Ash was actually the protagonist. Not Marshadow or Ho-oh. Our boy was front and center.

I get it. The movies are designed to be stand-alone stories that aren't required viewing for those who miss it in theaters or watch the show week by week. None of the main cast's Pokemon can evolve, none of their backstory should fully factor into the show and certainly no major plot developments tied into the show aside from a few exceptions.

But... how can we care when the heroes we followed in the show seem to be fairly impersonal with it most of the time?

 

[Silktree]

The first six movies and the Lucario one were fine in this department. Ash got a pivotal moment in the first movie's climax, and was central to the following two movies and eventually the Lucario movie. The second movie had Misty save Ash's life, while having meaningful interactions with Melody. The sixth movie was obviously Max-centric.

The ninth movie was a mess in terms of focus, and the following movies just tended to give Ash a heroic moment or two that I personally don't consider memorable. But I guess movies 9, 10 and 19 deserve some credit.

Hell, "I Choose You" was one of my favorites because Ash was actually the protagonist. Not Marshadow or Ho-oh. Our boy was front and center.

That was a different Ash.

 

[SinnohEevee]

The first six movies and the Lucario one were fine in this department. Ash got a pivotal moment in the first movie's climax, and was central to the following two movies and eventually the Lucario movie. The second movie had Misty save Ash's life, while having meaningful interactions with Melody. The sixth movie was obviously Max-centric.

The ninth movie was a mess in terms of focus, and the following movies just tended to give Ash a heroic moment or two that I personally don't consider memorable. But I guess movies 9, 10 and 19 deserve some credit.


That was a different Ash.

I personally could care less about characters from an AU. I didn't even care about M16's Mewtwo because it's not the original one.
And yes, M20 Ash is from an AU.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

Most of pokémon movies focused on the relationship between one of "twerps" (almost always Satoshi) and the pokemon of the movie. "I choose you" is kinda different but not that much; it focused on the UST friendship between Satoshi and Pikachu instead of the movie only legendary pokémon. Considering how much the movies foused on them, it's absurd to call Satoshi and others superfluous to the movies.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I personally could care less about characters from an AU. I didn't even care about M16's Mewtwo because it's not the original one.
And yes, M20 Ash is from an AU.

I'm not sure why it would matter if characters in the movies are from the main continuity or from an AU, at least as far as being invested in their stories goes. While I believe most of the movies are canon with the anime, they don't really contribute to the events on the series and we don't normally get more than just a line or two referencing the events of a specific movie. It's probably one reason why there are still debates as to whether or not the movies are canon. If it's just a matter of not finding their story engaging or interesting, that would be fine, but brushing off the idea of characters from an AU simply because they aren't from the original continuity of the anime seems like a bit much to me. It doesn't really matter if the movies are set within the main continuity or in their own universe in the grand scheme of the anime, so I don't really see how the AU concept could be that much of a turnoff on its own.

As for the question itself, I can't really think of a movie where Ash and his friends were completely superfluous. Even the Keldeo movie, which focused primarily on Keldeo more than the human characters, had Ash, Iris and Cilan help to get Keldeo to face Kyruem again. The movies tend to be pretty heavily focused on Ash bonding with a new Pokemon or getting some big moment to save the day. It is pretty rare for Ash's friends to have any noteworthy role in the movies. They sometimes get some small scene/moment where they help out, but usually nothing huge like what Ash does. Even so, I'm not sure if I'd call them superfluous in every movie. They usually just stick to the backgrounds.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

I personally could care less about characters from an AU. I didn't even care about M16's Mewtwo because it's not the original one.
And yes, M20 Ash is from an AU.

That just sort of seems like you're setting yourself up to always be disappointed.

I was originally a bit disappointed by the new Mewtwo until I realized that it meant Mew was cloned more than once... The movie wasn't great by any means though...

I personally care more about whether the plot and storyline makes me care about what happens to everyone involved.

DP series had some of the best movies for that. I didn't feel like the twerps were superfluous to the plot; the legendary Pokemon didn't feel just thrown in for the most part in those movies either.

I Choose You and the Lucario movie were the best in this regard. I felt most engaged with Ash in both and cared most about the characters and whether everything worked out in the end.

 

[Hidden Mew]

While I didn't like M16's Mewtwo, it wasn't because it wasn't the original Mewtwo. That might have made the movie more interesting or provide more meaning to its transformation, although that was revealed before we knew what Mega Evolution was, but my problem was that they really didn't make a new Mewtwo. They gave the new one basically the same backstory and development that the original Mewtwo got, which made it harder for it to stand out beyond being Mewtwo 2.0. Plus, it always bothered me that another Mew clone experiment could result in another Mewtwo with almost the same powers as the original one. That always seemed unlikely to me.

 

[Almonds]

AU or not I loved that Ash in "I Choose You!" was the main focus.

 

[Mikuri]

The first six movies and the Lucario one were fine in this department.

No they were not. Mewtwo Strikes Back, for instance, is all about Mewtwo from beginning to end. The only non-superfluous thing Ash ever did in that movie was become a statue, and then the Pokémon cried and Disney magic happened and everything was solved. Other than that, Ash battled a few times, but literally every single Pokémon movie features scenes of Ash battling.

When talking about original series movies, Ash had better roles in The Power of One, in which he is presented as the chosen one, and Celebi: The Voice of the Forest, in which he does everything he can to protect Celebi from harm.

While I quite like The Voice of the Forest, I see very few differences between Ash's role in this movie and his role in Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction, which I found utterly boring. Both movies have Ash protecting a Mythical Pokémon from poachers who want to make money out of the Pokémon they're chasing. We can discuss who wore it better, but in the end it's the same damn dress.

Movies in the Advanced Generation series were intended to shine a light on characters other than Ash. Jirachi: Wish Maker focuses on Max as you pointed out, Destiny Deoxys is about Tory overcoming his fear of Pokémon, Lucario and the Mystery of Mew tells the story of Sir Aaron and his Lucario, and Pokémon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea displays a mother-son relationship through May's bond with Manaphy.

The first three movies in the Diamond & Pearl series do a wonderful job at bringing to life the space-time theme they were going for in the fourth generation of games. They explained the dimensions where Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, and Arceus reside, how they are intertwined, and how they can impact the Pokémon world. That's not to say Ash and Dawn had reduced roles in these movies; in Arceus and the Jewel of Life, they traveled back in time to prevent Arceus from annihilating humanity. How is this less memorable than Ash rescuing a girl who was kidnapped by, from all living Pokémon out there, a bunch of Unown?

I won't be talking too much about Best Wishes and XY series movies because I either strongly dislike or flat out hate all of them, but I wouldn't go so far as to say Ash being around was superfluous. I think the only movie which could possibly work without Ash and his friends is Kyurem VS. The Sword of Justice. It's difficult to say Ash's presence is irrelevant in movies like Hoopa and the Clash of Ages. Although the writers were trying to cram in as much Legendary Pokémon as possible, these Pokémon did nothing more than spam attacks, and the one running towards the fancy tower to save the day was Ash.

 

[ii kanji]

Although the writers were trying to cram in as much Legendary Pokémon as possible, these Pokémon did nothing more than spam attacks, and the one running towards the fancy tower to save the day was Ash.

Made me laugh.
...Partly because this is the basic marketing premise of most of the movies...