Do we really *need* the term "anime"?

[Dogasu]

Does the term "anime" do more harm than it does good?

This is something that's been going through my head for a while, and I wanted to know what others thought.

As I'm sure a lot of you know, "anime," in Japan, is a word used to refer to animation from any country in the world. One Piece is an anime, Tom and Jerry is an anime, Inspector Gadget is an anime...etc. You can basically translate the word to mean "cartoon" and pretty much be accurate 100% of the time.

The way the word's used in the West, however, refers only to cartoons that come from Japan. So with the Western definition, One Piece is an anime because it comes from Japan, but Tom and Jerry and Inspector Gadget aren't because they come from the U.S. and France, respectively. Nevermind the can of worms opened when talking about co-productions like IGPX or anime-inspired shows like Teen Titans. Or the number of shows that had episodes outsourced to Japanese studios, like Batman the Animated Series.

The problem I have with these differing definitions is that the Japanese definition embraces foreign animation while the Western definition segregates Japanese animation from everything else. “Well, what’s wrong with that?” The problem is that segregation leads to generalization, generalization leads to stereotypes, and stereotypes lead to fewer people enjoying it because they think that all Japanese animation is violent porno or whatever. Because of this, Japanese animation can never really break into the mainstream, stereotypes of animation the animation are formed, and fans become divided.

Now when I say "break into the mainstream," I know that some of you will bring up examples of shows that have indeed broken into the mainstream. But things like Dragon Ball Z and Pokemon are just individual shows - Japanese animation, as a whole, is still a very niche market. While animation from the country has gotten more recognition over the years, it's still not treated the same as its non-Japanese counterparts. Shows like Inspector Gadget broke into the mainstream because companies didn’t flaunt its differences to Americans; they just presented the show as if it was just another cartoon. Because, when you get right down to it, it is.

As far as the stereotypes go...I think we all know a lot about that one. People talk about drawing in an "anime style" when such a thing doesn't really exist - saying that all Japanese animation has big eyes and little mouths is like saying that all American animation has square chins and giant upper bodies because the Bruce Timm cartoons have that. People will make blanket statements are made about Japanese animation all the time yet will get offended when you make similar blanket statements about the shows from America (i.e. “cartoons are just for kids”). Or, you get those crazy fans who get all crazy when you dare to call anime “a cartoon” and demand you listen to their rant about how anime and cartoons are *not* the same. Even though they are.

"Anime cliches" are listed, but when you get right down to it, a lot of the things that people complain about appearing in Japanese cartoons over and over again show up in Western products just as often. It only gets special attention because of the anime label.

The fans being divided is probably the most annoying part of this separation. You have people who only watch Japanese animation because “anime is better than American cartoons.” You have dub fans vs. sub fans. You have people who refuse to watch “anime-inspired” shows like Teen Titans because they hate anime. We have people who argue that American voice actors can't act and that “seiyuu” (again...why the different term? ) are so much better. Before long, you get a situation where the fans are so busy bickering over their differences that they fail to realize that they all like the same damn thing; cartoons.

Same thing with the term “manga,” really.


Do you think things would have been better if we just referred to Japanese cartoons as "cartoons from Japan" instead of slapping a label like "anime" on it? Is there any benefit to the term “anime” other than the fact that it’s shorter and easier to say? Do we really need to categorize the animation we watch by the country of origin? Or is it possible to just watch a show without really giving a crap about which country created it?

 

[Mooites]

Thats a really good point. I consider Avatar the Last Airbender an anime, just because thats the term I use to refer to the style of art. But then again, most people would just consider it an American cartoon inspired by Asian culture.

I dont really care where the cartoon comes from, as long as I can understand it. Its interesting to know, but it doesnt matter.

Anime is just kind of a confusing concept.

 

[Geodude]

I've sort of run into this issue with the Robotech series. I've brought it up online before only to discover that the people on the board I was on strongly disliked it simply because it was a combination of several Japanese "anime" series, and refused to consider Robotech to be anime.

I don't see where the problem is. I watched the first episode or so of Macross a few years ago, knowing it was going to be different, and found I liked Robotech better. Plus it's right there with Sailor Moon as one of the first shows to bring Japanese animation to North America.

 

[Hyatt]

Well, from an animator's perspective (although I'm no professional), I see it as this:
animation - can be either "anime" or "cartoon" or even stuff such as 3d or stop-motion
cartoon - a style of animation intended as satire, caricature, or humor. Cartoons are usually very stylized.
anime - a majority of anime tends to be drawn more realistically than cartoon styles.

Both types of animation have exceptions though such as Crayon shin-chan and more realistically drawn cartoons but not everything is simply black and white

That's how I think of it as

However, the whole concept of Japanese anime is quite confusing, but I feel most comfortable calling something like Crayon shin-chan a Japanese cartoon and Avatar an anime because it's the overall impression I get.

And with manga and comics, I thought it all boiled down to this
manga - panels of varying sizes
comic - panels of uniform size
however, then there's the whole 4koma deal @_@ unless one could put it into it's own category.

Something I feel I should say. Whenever I see the word "cartoon" I think of Loony Toons, Johnny Bravo and other frivilous programs. Sure anime may be frivilous at times but the word "anime" has a very different feel in my eyes than "cartoon". Whever I see that word, I simply see an alternate shortened version of the word "animation", with that word being very neutral.

 

[Dogasu]

But see...you're needlessly making distinctions between things that are, at their heart, the same. Especially since I can think of tons of exceptions to the definitions you've listed.

Something like Batman the Animated Series, for example, gets the cartoon label even though it's seen as one of the most sophisticated pieces of animation to come from the West. Yet if we dare use that same word for something like One Piece, it's suddenly all wrong and we need the term "anime." It's ridiculous.

 

[Satoshi-chan]

There is quite a prejudice with the word "cartoon" in America though, or at least in some areas or cultures. Unlike Japan where animated works are made in great numbers for people of many different age groups, animation in the United States has for many years been mainly geared toward children (with exception of a handful of adult animated films and such), and has been called "cartoons." So, the word cartoon has an air of immaturity for some, and most people tend to abandon them when it is no longer cool to like "kid's stuff." To use a term like "anime" for cartoons from Japan is a way for some to say "I can watch this and I will know as will others that this isn't some kiddie crap."

Just my take on the issue, and my take on the word "cartoon." Sure, they're one and the same, but the anime industry might not have ever found its current place in the US had there not been a way to separate it from the rest of the animation industry.

 

[Jukain]

I think we can learn something from the Japanese. After all, anime is just a shortened form of "animation", a blanket term for all of it. Unfortunately, the stigma of cartoons being for kids was made far before I was born. It was made before my parents were born perhaps. If you think you are cool because you watch presumably more mature anime, then that is just wrong because there are anime that make even our cartoons look mature. Maybe I'm feeding into the mindset by using the words this way, but I can't help it, really. Really, I think animation has already permeated beyond the child market, and we have not realized it. One of you said animation could be anything: drawings, stop-motion, computer generated. I was thinking of those Geico commercials where adults are talked to by an animated gecko and I knew that animation is part of our culture.

 

[Duckgon Z]

Do we need it? No.

But people are naturally lazy, and the term "anime" helps distinguish American animation, or "cartoons" from Japanese animation "anime". Yes, there the same thing, but when people want to spot differences they'll use these shorthand terms. It's like using contractions, like you're or isn't, you know what these words mean, its just shorthand talk.

 

[Adamant]

But people are naturally lazy, and the term "anime" helps distinguish American animation, or "cartoons" from Japanese animation "anime".

...because all cartoons are either Japanese or American, now?

Personally, I don't care much for the terms "manga" and "anime". Neither was really very mainstream here until 2003, when the first really noticable stream of Japanese comics started making it's way into the market. As often before, tons of publishers caught on and flooded the market, with a ton of series getting cancelled quickly (and a newly started publisher going bankrupt) once the sale numbers didn't impress as much as expected.

The "anime" market, or at least the part of it actually being called "anime", has been mostly direct-to-DVD releases of a couple series, most of them just the British releases with some new subtitles slapped on. As dubbing is only done so non-literate children can understand the dialoge, dub tracks are a rarity (only those hideously bad Dragon Ball Z movies and the Miyazaki movies having them as far as I'm aware).
The only series having been shown on TV are similiar in tone to the non-Japanese series shown in the same Saturday/Sunday morning programming blocks (Pokemon, Digimon, Sonic X, Hamtaro, Duel Masters, Dinosaur King, and a couple others), are never marketed as being any different from these other series, and mostly started airing before the manga boom in 2003 anyway. Their DVD releases are also dub-only, being targetted solely at children.

There's also been a couple Miyazaki movies, both old and new, shown in theatres, and like other movies targetted at a wide age range, these have two separate versions being shown at different times - a dubbed version for the kids, and a subtitled version for everyone else. These ARE influenced by the manga boom, but I'm not sure most of the moviegoers are actually aware of that.

The boom did breed a sizable chunk of those annoying "Japan is awesome!" anime fans, though. Sadly.

 

[Duckgon Z]

...because all cartoons are either Japanese or American, now?

Did I say that? Those are the most compared cartoons, besides French and Canadian but Americans haven't invented a word for their cartoons. We don't need these shorthand terms, but like I said, most people are too lazy to type out French Animation, or Canadian Animation, myself included.

 

[Railith]

We do not need the term "anime". Children need the term "anime" because it lets them feel like they are seeing something special and unique.

 

[XD375]

Hey, look at it this way: We could always go back and call it Japanimation.

 

[fate]

We do not need the term "anime". Children need the term "anime" because it lets them feel like they are seeing something special and unique.

Oh boy, this mentality. Not even going to touch this one with a 5-foot pole.

Anyway, I grew up calling it anime so I continue to use that to describe it. Why do I do it? Is it because I'm an "elitist prick"? No, but whatever floats your boat. I do it because it's what I've done from the getgo and frankly I've got better things to do than worry about cannotations my terminology might have.

This is a very trivial matter.

 

[empoleon dynamite]

I don't have a huge opinion on the matter, but it really does grind my gears when people get pissy about people calling anime a cartoon.

"It's not a cartoon! It's anime!"

They use it as a way of making the thing they're watching seem more mature. And saying that a majority of anime tends to be drawn more realistically than cartoon styles isn't very true since most american cartoons aimed at the same audiance as the japanese ones tend to be more realistic.

Cartoons like Batman and Star Wars: The Clone Wars come to mind, we're obviously not talking about shows like Fosters Home for Imaginary friends where the quality is simple and the age range is lower.

 

[bell02+]

I don't know, I'm kind of divided on this issue myself, although I really don't care what side people take even though I probably should. I tend to call Anime: TV-Anime or Japanese cartoons the most (though thinking about it, I usually am not thinking TV-Anime means a Japanese Cartoon, I just don't call Western Programs that as much)

However I guess I do still have the separation. It is just easier to make a person understand what you are talking about without a drawn out explanation (even though that doesn't help the situation). However, in circles where there is more knowledge on what is Japanese and what isn't (like an Anime or Video Game form for example) I'll say "cartoon". And, I guess, thinking about it more, I've been using the word "cartoon" a lot more than I use to.

Admittedly I'm not sure if it is fair to say that because Japanese people don't separate cartoons on a professional level (like say, TV tokyo's website or something) doesn't mean that they can't see any obvious differences and can't tell the difference between a domestic cartoon (Japanese made one) and a foreign cartoon.

Maybe this has more to do with American culture and us being somewhat closed off in at least some sort of mindset. We get a lot of programs with foreign origins, but many times over the content is localized, domesticated, or redone. Really it seems like cartoons is the only real place where international shows are put in the know. So really I guess one could say it is a problem that spans past cartoons. (In the US anyways)

That said, I don't think this problem will be fixed anytime soon. People are just going to make unjust steriotypes to everything, I mean programs like Simpsons and South Park have been out and popular for years, and many people still think "Cartoons are for Kids". Many raise their children to think many cultural oddities are just hormone adjustments(Things like getting married by 25, having to stop watching cartoons and playing video games after 14, being a wife that can cook and clean or being a man that can't, nonsense stuff such as that).

The cause for the separation of the term anime and cartoon was an attempt to patch up that mentality, although as you've stated only created more problems. (Cartoons are for kids, but with Anime we get violence, sex, and guns: Anime is for adults)

So I just don't see this being fixed as the problems lie else ware, and we can't even get just the Pokemon fans to come together on things let alone anime ones

As for my own "prejudices" against "anime-style" foreign stuff is that I tend to not like it because they are designed around Japanese Animation Stereotypes rather than the actual ideas that make them popular. I mean, some programs get it, but most don't, they sprinkle things around like sprinkles and fairy dust to a very typical american product. I do not like Teen Titans that much because most of the series is throwing in random Anime cleche's and emotion reactions to a typical american product, and then taking the plot back to bash foreign stuff. Same thing with the early Ben 10 (Why is Gwen so angry all the time? PMS? That's what it seems when all they are trying to do is sprinkle it with the "Anime dust" rather than attempt to make it more relevant) Also Avatar the last Airbender does this a lot, characters over react to everything, every character gets paired of for the shippers, and a painful frame rate. (My single most hated Stereotype to Japanese Animation, even the idea is miss-identified: Anime was having bad frame rates when American cartoons would have bad frame rates but the series wasn't localized till much later, and the pattern repeated till the 90s when Localization finally caught up. Now because of that, everyone is attentive for the slightest off moment when it really is the same or better than the american cartoons... which in turn is only because Japanese Cartoons tend to be bigger budgeted) I don't care if Airbender has a bad framerate because of lack of funding, compared to the other stereotype cleches it uses it's most likely using the stereotype to appear more "Anime-ish".

That said, I'm pretty fair to giving the programs a chance, I've watched every episode of teen titans with an open mind, same with Ben10 and Avatar. Some Western "Anime" stuff I think did a good job at the style as well, Totally Spies being one, and the Legion of Super Heroes, and such being other (Ben10 Alien Force also does less of the Anime Cleche stuff). I mean, I think it would be stupid to say only Japanese made stuff can be made to look Japanese style(and vice versa, Many Popular Japanese Shows have a very American-Believable style, and hybrid style like One Piece and even Dragonball really) Plus, all it takes is 5 mins on Deviant Art to see some convincing work from Non-japanese people.

So maybe it isn't complete prejudice, I just am not satisfied with what is on the market compared to what can be on the market. (Which I view is mainly because I don't see many Western Companies taking things seriously)

 

[Rave]

I'm just gonna give this a quick and simple solution for myself.

Honestly, I don't think the term anime is even needed at all. I personally like calling it Eastern Animation, eastern cartoons, whatever.

Because I think its stupid, knowing that there are people who are confusing the shit out of "animu" lookalikes here in the states, like Teen Titans and Avatar, both Western Animation.

I just like calling it from where it comes out of.

 

[goloog]

Because I love cartoons in general no matter what country they're from, I avoid the term 'anime' whenever possible. Basically, I've had it up to HERE with snobs who consider Japanese cartoons too amazing to be called cartoons, as if that would be degrading. At the same time, the rebel teenagers who 'hate anime but love cartoons' are just as annoying.

 

[WMS]

Because I love cartoons in general no matter what country they're from, I avoid the term 'anime' whenever possible. Basically, I've had it up to HERE with snobs who consider Japanese cartoons too amazing to be called cartoons, as if that would be degrading. At the same time, the rebel teenagers who 'hate anime but love cartoons' are just as annoying.

or maybe your just someone that hates anime :/ anime referes to "Cartoons" that are more Human then we can consider "Cartoons", its a sign of respect.
like Crimson king (Japenese kid show)=Cartoon, Inuyasha=Anime, get it its an insult calling human-like drawings Cartoons cause artoons are meant to be funny animes are basicly dramatic versions of Cartoons with more of a mature audience... basicly Watch inuyasha then watch somthing like johnny test you'll see that there too diferent to be called the same thing but W/e its not like someone who hates the term can apreciate it right? oh and BTW yes we need the term "Anime" cause its a sign of Respect and also manga is "inked" art without motion :/ read befor you complain


(this post was not meant to be rude)

 

[The Outrage]

or maybe your just someone that hates anime :/ anime referes to "Cartoons" that are more Human then we can consider "Cartoons", its a sign of respect.

Pokemon, Duel Masters, Dinosaur King, Yugioh, One Piece.... (please note that jsut because I list one piece here, does not mean I think its art is at the low level of Duel Masters -_-)

...and I'm not talking about them having monsters, no. I'd be worried if that is what you consider to be more "real"

I mean what about those old Justice Friends, Spider Man or Bat Man cartoons? I doubt you consider them "anime" yet they are way more anatomically correct then those mentioned above. We're not even gettign into comic books and manga artwork.....


Oh and just because an anime has a more realistic style, as you suggest, does not mean it is automatically better and deserve respect. Their storyline could still suck. And you claim not trying to be rude, but you accuse someone of hatred?

Honestly, I couldn't care either way, and since I don't care, I guess its not needed.

I mean what does one define as an "anime" anyway?

get it its an insult calling human-like drawings Cartoons cause artoons are meant to be funny animes are basicly dramatic versions of Cartoons with more of a mature audience...

Zatch Bell...

Last I checked, comedy was still a genre of japanese animation along with drama. And a more mature audience? Really?

 

[WMS]

Pokemon, Duel Masters, Dinosaur King, Yugioh....

...and I'm not talking about them having monsters, no. I'd be worried if that is what you consider to be more "real"

I mean what about those old Justice Friends, Spider Man or Bat Man cartoons? I doubt you consider them "anime" yet they are way more anatomically correct then those mentioned above. We're not even gettign into comic books and manga artwork.....

Oh and just because an anime has a more realistic style, as you suggest, does not mean it is automatically better and deserve respect. Their storyline could still suck. And you claim not trying to be rude, but you accuse someone of hatred?

Honestly, I couldn't care either way, and since I don't care, I guess its not needed.

I mean what does one define as an "anime" anyway?

no thats not what i meant i mean during world war 2 the japenese invented anime to help them threw in different ways and also i checked my sorces aparently anime means Moving drawings -.- well i think i lost but im not sure oh and Spiderman, and batman are anime cause Marvel comics are an anime company...