Do you accept the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

[MetroLSD]

Considering the fact that Red became champion as well as a pokemon master while Ash never won a major league nor own any legendaries or all the starters from both Hoenn and Sinnoh, do you still consider Ash to be the official anime counterpart of Red?

 

[Gengarzilla]

Re: Do you except the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

He is Red's counterpart whether we like it or not. I don't see any point in denying it.

 

[John Understands]

Re: Do you except the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

Ash is still Red's counterpart, even if Red has caught a few legendaries and trained at Mt. Silver for 3 years, and Ash has lost at every tournament.

 

[Saiga]

Re: Do you except the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

I wouldn't consider him Red's counterpart post-Indigo League, as nothing he does after that point is based on Red's story.

 

[Xenidal]

Re: Do you except the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

I wouldn't consider him Red's counterpart post-Indigo League, as nothing he does after that point is based on Red's story.

I agree, it's obvious that he was Red's counterpart for Kanto (minus becoming the Champion), but after Kanto it went in a completely different direction. Actually, even within the Kanto saga, Red's quest was quite different from Ash's quest. Still, they are counterparts considering that they are both the trainer from Pallet who traveled around Kanto collecting badges and rivaling Gary / Blue. And they ended up with similar parties after finishing up Kanto. They even look sort of the same... I really don't know of anyone in the anime who fits Red's character better than Ash unless one of the 2 unknown trainers does (but from what I remember, both of those trainers failed before even making it to the League, so it can't be either of them). So if Red does have an anime counterpart (which I think he does), it's gotta be Ash.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Do you except the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

Ritchie is the only other possibility and he lost the league too. Ash is Red's counterpart in the way of having pikachu plus all the starters of kanto along with lapras at one point, and a snorlax. Red capturing legendaries isn't canon as that depends on the player. His only canon pokemon are those from the Johto games, which Ash has/does own all. He doesn't need to win the Indigo League to be Red's counterpart. Counterparts are just characters based on the game characters, they don't need the same personalities. Pokemon Adventures is a good example of this as most of the characters aren't one bit like their game counterparts, it's the same with the anime

 

[Hidden Mew]

Re: Do you except the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

I don't recall Red being confirmed to be a Pokemon Master in the games. He did become the Champion, but I don't think that's the same as a Master, especially when they didn't describe him as such in the games. Regardless, Ash is Red's anime counterpart. I wasn't even aware that people didn't accept it before. He may not be following Red's storyline post-Indigo League, but that doesn't change the fact that Ash is still based off of Red. So, I don't really see the point in denying this as well.

 

[Kwame120]

Not in my mind, no. That's not a bad thing, though. He's gone on a different path from Red, so although Ash was based on him, I now consider them quite separate. Even though some aspects of either are taken from the other (Red's use of Pikachu, for example), I don't consider Ash Red's counterpart, as that implies being a mirror image of him, which he's not.

 

[Satoshi_Pikachu]

Yes. I am sure Red will never, ever appear in the anime because Ash is Red's counterpart. The whole thing with Ash losing the league is just marketing, if the show had been only 1 season long, he would've probably won. And anyway, is Red even a Pokémon Master? He's the Champion of Kanto, but that's not a Pokémon Master.

 

[97SaturnSL1]

yes. i see it like how May is Saphire's anime counter part and Pearl is Barry's counterpart. (though there are some inconsistency between both medias).
driving a point home. Red in Crystal had a really high leveled pikachu. back when i was younger it was convincing that he had a strong pikachu in the games and the show (not so much the show fast forward)

 

[Xenidal]

Re: Do you except the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

Ritchie is the only other possibility and he lost the league too. Ash is Red's counterpart in the way of having pikachu plus all the starters of kanto along with lapras at one point, and a snorlax. Red capturing legendaries isn't canon as that depends on the player. His only canon pokemon are those from the Johto games, which Ash has/does own all. He doesn't need to win the Indigo League to be Red's counterpart. Counterparts are just characters based on the game characters, they don't need the same personalities. Pokemon Adventures is a good example of this as most of the characters aren't one bit like their game counterparts, it's the same with the anime

I considered Ritchie as a possibility but that makes even less sense than Ash. Ritchie was never indicated to have come from Pallet, he certainly didn't know Prof. Oak when they met in that elevator, and it is extremely unlikely that Gary was his rival. The only similarities are his looks and his party... the party not even matching as there was no indication that he even had a Lapras or Snorlax.
So yeah, it's gotta be Ash.

 

[ZMT123]

Ash is in every way Red's counterpart. Ash sucks, Red doesn't. Perfect counterparts.

 

[Dogasu]

Re: Do you except the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

I don't recall Red being confirmed to be a Pokemon Master in the games.

Adding to that...I don't think the term "Pokemon Master" has ever been used in any of the video games at all. I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the whole idea is restricted to the TV series.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Do you except the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

I don't recall Red being confirmed to be a Pokemon Master in the games.

Adding to that...I don't think the term "Pokemon Master" has ever been used in any of the video games at all. I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the whole idea is restricted to the TV series.

In Red, Blue, Yellow, FireRed, and LeafGreen, upon defeating Lance, he declares the player a Pokémon Master.

Pokémon Master - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

He is the counterpart of all male PCs.

 

[Robo-Floatzel]

I always considered Ash not as Reds counterpart, but more rather, his opposite. Red is the example of a good trainer who knows what he is doing, and thinks before he acts, while Ash represents the trainer who struggles to reach his goal, doesn't make the correct decisions at the right time, and basically jumps into things without thinking about them first.

To be honest, nobody can TRULY be a Pokemon Master, there are good trainers and bad trainers, no such thing as the "best trainer there is", just a trainer, that is all.

 

[Yankees4life]

Not really because Red isn't as dense as Ash and Red is much brighter than Ash...

 

[fori]

Ash is the counterpart to Red. Ash is only a rough trainer because otherwise kids playing the games would feel bad because the trainer in the anime is tank and they suck.

 

[AlphaMouse]

I think that Ash is a general paradigm for PCs, doing much the same (except in BW)

 

[Xenidal]

Re: Do you except the fact that Ash is Red's counterpart?

I don't recall Red being confirmed to be a Pokemon Master in the games.

Adding to that...I don't think the term "Pokemon Master" has ever been used in any of the video games at all. I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the whole idea is restricted to the TV series.

In Red, Blue, Yellow, FireRed, and LeafGreen, upon defeating Lance, he declares the player a Pokémon Master.

Pokémon Master - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

That might or might not be referring to the title of "Master". It might have just meant that he has become a really good trainer / mastered the art of Pokémon training (without actually obtaining such a title). Hard to say... but I would think if it was a title it would be capitalised (I'm aware that in real life such as chess the title is not capitalised, but game-wise most important words and titles are always capitalised)



Anyway, I agree that Ash takes on the role of all the player characters, but I wouldn't say he's their counterpart. Not exacly a paradigm either... he fits the paradigm, but so does just about every trainer in existence who goes on a badge quest in any given region (particularly the ones who start in the first town).
He's only really a counterpart to Red because of how similar they are, in their background stories (but not exactly their in-game stories other than the main badge quest) and in their choice of Pokémon on their team.