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Do you enjoy being challenged/challenging yourself in video games?

Wyrmfemme

Wyrmfemme

Izutsumi . o O (Izutsumi)
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There's been a little bit of, Difficulty Discourse, happening, and it is ultimately a subjective topic, but it got me thinking a bit.

I enjoy being challenged in video games, I like learning and reading up on them as much as I like playing them, I enjoy looking back on things I used to find incredibly difficult and now can do like a breeze, I like when games push back against me because I get to focus in and use what I've learned, either from reading or from the experience I have playing. Its something I've grown and practiced at over the course of my life akin to cooking or drawing for others.

Some recent examples I can think of where I've encountered something difficult and managed to learn and overcome the difficulty:

The Undertale fanmod, Hard Mode Director's Cut: This is a fan project that aims to add a full "Hard Mode" to Undertale, rather than stopping at Toriel. You can only go as far as Papyrus right now, of which, I really enjoyed his fight. Learning/Realizing how to dodge the attacks, remembering which attacks would come next so I could preemptively get a better position on the bullet board, smart use of the healing items available to me, all made it a really enjoyable experience to grind out. Plus, the first time I managed to get to his "Special Attack" which, in the Mod, he now has multiple of, I managed to one-try that entire segment of the fight by the skin of my teeth. My heart was POUNDING I could feel the adrenaline in my veins, it was great, I love that feeling.

Conversely;
I love the Roaring Knight and her fight, for the exact same reason I outlined above with Hard Mode Papyrus. You don't always have to take advantage of everything in Deltarune's fights, you can usually spare enemies fairly quickly. But not with the Knight. Shuffling my equipment around, defending when I knew an attack I wasn't good at was coming up, finally using the stockpiled ReviveMints. It's all an incredibly memorable fight, and I think part of why that is is its because its the first time Deltarune really pushes back against the player. I had the same feeling of adrenaline in my veins when I realized I reached her final attack, and won the battle.

The Time Trials in Psueodregalia (and Psuedoregalia in general) are awesome, Psuedoregalia has next to zero "instructions" outside of "Hey you picked up an ability, here's the button to press for it, now get out of this room with it" and they all combine into absurd movement that feels great to get the hang of, and the Time Trials are where you put that movement to the test. Also figuring out a/the route for how to complete them is also part of the fun, a lot of trial and error, it all makes a package that feels really good when you manage to string it all together. I really recommend Psuedoregalia, its like under 10$ USD on Steam, absolute steal.

Not a recent thing but, I used to be absolute GARBAGE at Terraria. For the longest time I thought Queen Bee was Just Too Much, always sitting in my head like a blight on Pre-Hardmode. But she hasn't caused me trouble for like, years. I've put so many hours into Terraria (specifically TModLoader Calamity) and its something I can actively look back on and see how I've improved, simply by just, playing it and growing. Used to think Expert Mode was easier than Normal Mode because Boss Treasure Bags and Expert Exclusive Drops provide a huge advantage, now I think Revengeance Mode is easier than Expert Mode because Rage & Adrenaline let you rip through bosses and end up making them a lot shorter than in Expert or Normal. I always love coming back to Terraria, and I'm really excited for Calamity's Brainstorm update.

Part of why I'm curious how people think/feel about this sort of thing, is because I think challenging oneself, and learning to overcome those challenges, to grow and learn, is something incredibly beneficial to everyone- but, I know that's why some people don't enjoy being challenged in games, because their lives have enough of that already. Additionally, as an example, a lot of people like stuff like Stardew Valley and find it relaxing, but I just get stressed out by it and its time limits.

What someone else finds challenging is likely completely different from what I find challenging, and I want to hear about that.
 
I love being challenged when I play video games, honestly I think there's little fun to be had when there's zero challenge to a game at all.

Last year I did the quest Sins of the Father in Old School RuneScape, which is regarded as being one of the hardest quests in the whole game with one of the hardest quest bosses there is.

And hoo boy lemme tell you the mechanics of the final boss and you'll see why this boss is so challenging:
The final boss of Sins of the Father is a vampyre named Vanstrom Klause.

He is level 459 with 750 hitpoints.

There are two phases to this boss fight.

In phase 1, Vanstrom primarily uses a magic-based attack which can deal a maximum of 24 damage (and heals him for a portion of the damage he deals against you). For reference - without the use of something that can boost your HP - the max HP level (and therefore the max HP you can have as a player) is 99, which means he could damage you for 25% of your entire HP if you level 99 HP. Thankfully, using the prayer Protect from Magic (which you ABSOLUTELY should keep on during the phase) will reduce the max hit from 24 to 12.

He also has three special attacks that he does during this phase. The first time he does the special attack can happen at any time, but then after it becomes a pattern of 9-12 regular attacks, special attack, and repeat. And he does not repeat the same special attack twice in a row.

The special attacks he does during phase 1 are indicated by what he says above his head:
1. My pets will feast on your corpse! - Where he summons a monster called an acidic bloodveld that will walk towards you. You have to kill the bloodveld from a distance or else it will explode when it is near you and damage you for 35-50 HP. While fighting Vanstrom, you have to use this melee weapon called the blisterwood flail to attack him so in your inventory you have to have some ranged switches (recommended are throwing knives or darts since they are among the fastest weapons in the game, take up just one slot and you only need to hit a bloodveld once to kill it)

2. Blood will be my strength! - He summons an orb of blood that visually appears to be 1x1 tiles in size but actually occupies 3x3 tiles and increases the damage of his magic attack, even through Protect from Magic. If you run around the orb, you can lure Vanstrom into it which will cause it to be destroyed and damage him for at least 20 damage (the highest damage I saw it do to him was 50) but if YOU walk into its radius, then it will explode and damage you for up-to 50 damage.

3. Stare into darkness! - He turns your screen dark and damages you for 40+ HP. You can avoid this attack by immediately stepping 1 tile away from him so you're not facing him when he does this attack. Relying on reflexes might be too hard, so another method (which is the one I used) is stepping away after each of his attacks unless I knew the next special attack was not going to be this one (because of the whole 'he doesn't repeat special attacks twice in a row' thing)

After you defeat Vanstrom in phase 1, enter phase 2.

In phase 2, he will heal himself to 200 HP and stop doing his special attacks. Instead he will summon waves of 10-15 randomly located lightning bolts every two seconds-ish, which can strike for up to 40 damage and can be anticipated and avoided by watching the shadows on the floor and avoiding the tiles with them (this is where the lightning will strike).

His regular attack will now hit with 100% accuracy and will deal between 0 and 10 damage and are completely unaffected by Protect from Magic (so no point in keeping it on in this phase and it's best to switch to useful non-protection prayers during this part of the fight).

Basically you wanna be constantly attacking Vanstrom during this phase, avoiding the lightning bolts, and also keeping check on your HP (and eating when you have to, recommended to have saved some 1-tick food in your inventory like karambwans because you can very easily die in just a few seconds thanks to the lightning bolts.

It took me at least TWENTY-FIVE attempts to finally beat this boss, I am not kidding. It didn't take that many attempts to get a rhythm down and consistently beat the first phase (probably like 7 or so tries) but the second phase? Yeah, hoo-boy.

And when I finally did beat him? Oh yeah I was internally going 'Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit' because I - quite literally - had ZERO food left and just two (TWO!!!!!) HP. If I hadn't gotten that last hit and defeated Vanstrom, I would have had to try again.

Just holy shit the 'I fucking did it' feeling I get when I manage to get past something difficult like this? It's such a good feeling of finally overcoming a challenge.
 
I enjoy being challenged to a point. I don't want it to be so hard that I have to basically luck my way into a win. However, oftentimes I don't want it to be so easy that I don't even have to push a button to win. I like the happy medium between the two. The best case for me is for there to be difficulty options without penalties for choosing the easier options. I want a kid to be able to win, but I also want the more experienced gamer(s) to be able to have a challenge, too.
 
Only if the game is good and I enjoy the gameplay a lot. Some arcade games such as Kiki Kaikai I give up quickly only playing short sessions because I get demotivated. Then when I was playing Half Life the challenge made the game more fun strategising in order to survive while rationing ammo. When it comes to RPGs I often get stuck because I'm not smart enough and can't be bothered to continue playing unless the story has me in its grip.

The immersion aspect is important too I think. For example, a Pokémon challenge run can add to the immersion of going through a precarious adventure. However, if you constantly get wiped out at the same spot over and over the immersion is broken as you can feel the gamey nature with its underlying mechanics that you have to grapple with more. This isn't always a bad thing, but it can turn some people off or make them give up on the game at a certain point. I think many RPGs have an easy mode or instant revival settings to prevent the player from being taken out of the story too much if they don't wanna. FE and Persona come to mind as games that have easy modes to priotise the narrative.
 
I enjoy being challenged. I play sports games and I personally want things to be as realistic as possible when playing. That requires me toggling with the sliders and adjusting everything at the start to find a comfortable medium.
 
Blast said:
Then when I was playing Half Life the challenge made the game more fun strategising in order to survive while rationing ammo.
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Wanted to touch on this because I'm usually not a fan of "Rationing" in games, but, this is both why I'm really enjoying, and why its taking me a while to beat, Bioshock 2. The rationing in it actually Makes the game and I enjoy how it doesn't just extend to your ammo but also other resources such as Adam and Gun Upgrades. Makes the gameplay and on the fly decisions I've had to make feel a lot more deliberate. But its also why I don't play it much and still haven't beaten it, even though I enjoy myself when I do, because its simultaneously very slow and deliberate but also think on your feet fast.

I'm out of my element playing it, its a challenge to adapt to its gameplay, but that's why its fun!

Would recommend though, can't say the same about Infinite, and I haven't played 1.
 
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Wyrmfemme said:
Wanted to touch on this because I'm usually not a fan of "Rationing" in games, but, this is both why I'm really enjoying, and why its taking me a while to beat, Bioshock 2. The rationing in it actually Makes the game and I enjoy how it doesn't just extend to your ammo but also other resources such as Adam and Gun Upgrades. Makes the gameplay and on the fly decisions I've had to make feel a lot more deliberate. But its also why I don't play it much and still haven't beaten it, even though I enjoy myself when I do, because its simultaneously very slow and deliberate but also think on your feet fast.

I'm out of my element playing it, its a challenge to adapt to its gameplay, but that's why its fun!

Would recommend though, can't say the same about Infinite, and I haven't played 1.
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If I can ask why you play 2 instead of 1? :o I wanna try playing Bioshock too. Honestly I haven't played many games where item management was important, but the sense of vulnerability you get of not being able to mow everything down made kept me on my toes for sure.
 
Blast said:
If I can ask why you play 2 instead of 1? :eek: I wanna try playing Bioshock too. Honestly I haven't played many games where item management was important, but the sense of vulnerability you get of not being able to mow everything down made kept me on my toes for sure.
Click to expand...
It's not the most interesting reason: for some unknown/forgotten reason I own Infinite and 2 on Steam, but not 1. I don't remember purchasing either, my account is fairly old though.

Do plan on (getting and) playing 1 whenever I get around to beating 2 though.
 
My main jam is Pokemon, and the majority of the games I play are Pokemon.
I like being challenged, but if a puzzle creates problems for me, such as warp panels and the like, if I have to pull up a video for guidance or a written guide, it is too tough for me to figure out by myself.

Sometimes, I look at a guide only to get through one tricky part. Some of the side series games are brutal though.
 
For main series Pokemon, sometimes. The games are often sooo easy that I choose not-every-effective Pokemon so the enemies can put up a challenge. I've also done two Nuzlockes and they've been kinda fun.
For other games, not really. I'm and once and done kinda guy, so I prefer to stick with the standard difficulty the game has. If I end up wanting more I stick with the postgame or start a new file all over again with the same settings, using higher difficulties sounds like a long learning curve I don't have time to commit with.

There was one time circa 2012 where I said "I fully dominate Mario 3D Land, I should look if there is any challenge in the internet I could do" but forgot to do it and eventually moved to other games.
 
For a first time playthough If the game i’m playing even has traditional difficulty settings i do tend to play on default, as i wanna experience the game the way it was “intended” but then maybe later I’ll play on hard and stuff
 
Typically, no. Games are a free-time hobby to me and I do them purely them to relax. There are sometimes where I'll want to take on a challenge but that's not often.
 
It would often depend on what kind of challenge we mean here. I don't usually enjoy the kind of artificial difficulty of defeating bosses, or just enemies in general, that are stacked with truckloads of HP, which usually only just makes such encounters more time-consuming than anything else. Obviously, giving certain enemy encounters more HP is a given, in many cases, but I also prefer such special encounters to be more challenging in more creative ways, such as giving said boss a weakness to exploit or layers of obstacles to overcome first, etc..

In stark contrast to how many games are designed, I generally love games that start difficult, then become steadily easier as your character gets stronger, with still the occasional challenges here and there, because that actually makes me feel like I am getting stronger as I level up or increase characters skills, instead of just continuously trying to "keep up" with the steadily increasing difficulty. But like some others above have said, I generally just go for the normal difficulty challenge to start, then may bump it up on replays, to get the most "natural" experience of playing a game, which usually works well.
 
Not really, no. I play games to relax, defuse stress, and take my mind off of RL. I hate it when a game is too challenging, too grindy, or too complex because it ends up making me more stressed. I'm a casual gamer at heart and I need my games to be on the same wavelength as myself. So I don't really like it when a game is too challenging. Sure, I don't mind a bit of challenge or a fairly smart AI, since it helps keep me sharp, but I hate it when it gets over-the-top challenging (like, say, Dark Souls-level of challenge) or gets too grindy/slow. To me, games are one of the ways I burn off stress, so I don't want my games to create more stress when I'm trying to relax or decompress. So while I don't mind a bit of challenge or a fairly smart AI to keep me entertained I don't like it when a game gets too challenging or too complex to enjoy.
 
Yes! Only when its actually fun however... here's some examples.

Hollow Knight: Borders on Fun and Not Fun... having like... no abilities to begin with in a platformer sucks... but once you get those abilities it gets better... but having to travel so far around the map and having to go find your shade if you die is a pain.

Elden Ring: Not Fun. Its just stacks upon stacks of hard challenges and enemies. Recently I snuck around a whole bunch of enemies only to find myself at dead end of a waterfall with no reward... I jumped off the map and didn't save my progress.

Kirby Planet Robobot: Fun. The challenge comes from the boss rush modes and those modes are fun.

Dragon Ball XenoVerse 2: The story is fun and sorta easy... while of course online just depends on who you fight against (doesn't really count) but the Expert Missions are challenging and so are some Parallel Quests
 
I enjoy challenges that I know are possible for me. Like.. most UtDr fangames are a no, because they're too difficult. Most Nuzlocke rules are also a huge no, at the moment.
I like challenges where on most retries I feel like I'm actually making progress. Most final bosses are a big yes!
Maybe when I get better at video games I'll try fan challenges.
 
Challenges wear thin. Collect more useless baubles (missile tanks, jigsaw pieces...). Battle 100 trainers in a row! Or something.
 
I very much enjoy a challenging experience in my video games. If it's so easy I breeze through it, it gets boring. The struggle to overcome the difficulty I'm facing is half the enjoyment for me. A difficult but fair experience is the best thing for me.
 
I like games difficult, but not too difficult. One of the reasons I like ROM hacks/mods is because of the elevated difficulty.
 
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