Discussion Do You Like Reviews/Reviewing?

[kintsugi]

(This feels like it's a rhetorical question and then I answer with a "oho! well come on over here" thread. It's not!)

I've been around the block, uh, a few times in the fanfic writing community, and one thing I never thought would really die off is "review pls". But I think I see less of that here! As resident reviewer/review event maker/community feedback georg, I'm curious--are you motivated by receiving reviews? Do you take them in mind when writing future stories? What makes you not like a review? What (if anything) makes you value a review?

Likewise, what makes you want to write reviews? Are you interested in either of our long-running review focused events (Book Club or Review League), or is there a different format or incentive system that you'd prefer?

There are no wrong answers here!

 

[NumberOneSpinelApologist]

Comments are certainly motivating, but they don't have to be "reviews". I just like knowing that someone read my stuff and had some thoughts about it, it does not have to be deep or structured or long or anything like that. Or even positive. Honestly, sometimes even getting a comment that someone hated it would be better for me than radio silence haha. A simple "I lol'ed" really goes a long way haha. I do get inspiration from feedback, and do think about it when deciding about how to write.
I like leaving a comment if I think i have something noteworthy to say in any way, but I mostly don't have enough smart thoughts to make a proper review. It is part skill issue, part laziness, part brain fog that really does makes it quite a big effort to do a proper review that would make sense and convey my intentions well.

 

[staticmoth]

I don't go into posting art online expecting reviews/comments, if I get even one like/kudo/reaction I consider that to be really cool lol.

I think I often struggle with compiling my thoughts in a really constructive way like a review, so at most I might leave a comment that says "Hey I really like this, thanks so much for sharing it!" Expecting folks to leave comments that are really in-depth would be hypocritical of me, if I cannot return the same energy.

But I think comments are motivating!! I'm sometimes overwhelmed by them and I'm like "oh wow thank you so much ahhhh." and my brain fries.

 

[WholesomeCryptid]

i have... mixed feelings on reviews i suppose? i love comments on my work they're the main thing that keeps keeps me motivated to share my creative work with others! But there's a reason that i ask people to be on the gentler side with me when reviewing my work as a more critical review can absolutely tear me to shredded and have the affect of killing my motivation to write. It's not that i don't want feedback on my work! That's not the case either reviews can be helpful with telling me where i can improve in my writing and how i can grow and i deeply appreciate them for that! Just receiving a review that tells me exactly what's wrong with my fic and why with little to no compliments is personally a motivation killer. Even if i can appreciate reviews and find them helpful at times.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Mixed since sometimes there is bias with some reviews while others are missing stuff in their reviews.

 

[Minnachu]

If someone actually likes your work and wants to give their feedback on it, I'm fine with that. IMHO, review exchanges are superficial af, though. They're absolutely awful. If someone genuinely liked what you write, they'd want to read it without you even knowing they exist, and vice versa.

 

[kintsugi]

I love comments: people sharing what they thought and how they felt about the fic. that's how it is in the arts forums

I hate reviews

While I think it's clear we don't agree on this, I think your points are valid and tbh we have more in common than different--we both look for feedback that has "soul" in it, though we differ in opinion on how we think that soul manifests. I hope it goes without saying in a thread tagged "no wrong answers", but this is obviously not a wrong answer, and you're welcome to share it.

first the elephant in the room: it's clear people only "review" to get magic internet bribery points in the Review League, what with how fast they report and ask for their rewards, and pad things up with a million unnecessary words because more words mean more points, and always do it with no miss, so from the get go I have no trust in the sincerity of the reviews here

second is how mechanical and soulless they are; it's not thoughts and feelings, it's unsolicited critique like they've been given the fic to dissect as homework in English class. that's not what I want to see when I post, even before the whole "for your own good" feeling I get from this kind of unprompted "help"

nowadays especially, it's important to have comments that feel like they came from a person of flesh and blood with real thoughts and feelings, as opposed to, honestly, getting "reviews" that come off like I just asked ChatGPT "how could I make my fic better?" 100% "help," 0% soul

I didn't mention it before because I think I'm the only one thinking like this (certainly saw no one else criticize the reviews) and everyone else is having lots of fun with the Review League and Book Club, but this is why my first fic here specifically had a "please no "reviews"" in the notes

However, this and following is written in a way that refers to a vanishingly small number of users. I appreciate that you did not name anyone specific here. However, vague blame is still easy to internalize, and I cannot find a way to interpret this statement in good faith towards other users.

You are, of course, welcome to take aim at how RL is run, how well it does or doesn't serve the community, or really anything that comes to mind. I would prefer that you do so in the thread that you linked, for organization's sake. You're also entirely free to write a response aimed specifically at my reviews if you feel like it.

What is not welcome is assuming bad faith of other community users.

Regarding "soul". The Workshop has had a culture of reviewing from long before Review League, right before the first Review League, in the dead days between Review Leagues, on sites without Review Leagues, and everything in between. One of my favorite authors said I had a style she admired. Someone wrote fan music for one of my stories. Three separate authors whom I deeply admired wrote an Epic Rap Battle style crossover fight club featuring my story, which involved all of them reading it multiple times and shitposting the hell out of it. All of these users interacted with the Workshop primarily through what you describe as reviews, most of them did so before Review League was ever a thing, and most of them continued to do so just as much as they would've normally without it. You may recognize that some of them still do so today.

The definition of "soul" obviously will vary from person to person, and ultimately feedback is largely quantified by how much it helps the author, which is why I have focused only on reviews written for me (a collection truncated for convenience), and why I will also underline, in case it isn't obvious, that I deeply cherish these reviews and these people.

You do not have to feel this way. The Workshop today does not have to be this way--I hope that me posting this thread is a sign that I'm curious about how the community continues to evolve, and how today's mod team can help support it. But it is both factually ignorant and cruel to suggest that this community is solely motivated by Review League in the ways that you've outlined, and is bordering on sitewide rules violations. If nothing else, it seems very lonely that you feel unable to trust the sincerity of a subset of a relatively small community, and I would hope to prevent this from festering.

I get the feeling that you have some residual stress here, and I do not want to leave you without redress. I've been in situations where I've felt at odds with moderators or the majority of the community, and I have not found those situations fun--I would hope not to leave you in the same boat, but at the same time, I'm not really sure what you would like us to action on.

• If you believe there are specific reviews that are being inflated for the purpose of Review League points, please report them to someone in the Workshop team whom you trust.
• If you believe the problem is with me, how Review League is being run, or anything similar, I do not mind having that conversation separately. It may help you to know ahead of time that: the mod team has been asked to not claim prizes from RL, that this ask has been honored since July of last year, and that as organizer I do not put myself at the top of the leaderboard to avoid the obvious conflicts of interest. If you are not comfortable having this conversation with me, because you think it is something I have done specifically that means I cannot act for this community in good faith, I encourage you to escalate to a Super Moderator or Admin whom you trust.
• I appreciate that you put the aformentioned crit requests on your stories. Review culture requires trust and communication, and the communication here is much appreciated. I can confirm that your notes are why I've avoided nominating you in for Book Club or similar, and am confirming that I will continue to avoid doing so until you notify me that it's something you'd want. Though I understand this, I recommend that you continue communicating this preference on future stories, in case someone unfamiliar with this conversation encounters your work.
• If there is some form of alternate Review League that is focused more around encouraging folks to read/comment in a way that you would prefer (or if you would even like such an event at all), please let me know and I am happy to help in whatever capacity interests you.

The list above is also on the table for anyone else who may feel similarly. Please refrain from making unsourced assumptions of bad faith of your other community members in the future.

 

[theclaw]

The common anchor is Pokemon naturally. A most informative review in that light, tells you the author's knowledge of the franchise.
If a story has darker or otherwise less "Pokemon" subject matter, how effectively does the interpretation form a thread to something in the series?

 

[NumberOneSpinelApologist]

Re: events
I liked the winter roundtable event. It felt organic and soulful, event though we all HAD to make reviews for it, it was the whole point. It did not have the feel of doing an assignment for me, because everyone could choose to review whichever work resonated with them in some way, so it did not feel like anyone was writing the review because it was homework. We were all there because we wanted to.
I think that if I had the energy and the theme sounded inspiring for both reading and writing about it, I would try to take part again. I would prefer if the event was focused on short works, because of my short attention span haha and ease of reviewing more works.

I have no idea how that would work, but since everyone seems to like comments, maybe something like a flash short fiction exchange or roundtable could be fun? Everyone writes drabbles, and everyone gets comments. Just brainstorming here, so disregard if that makes no sense.

BTW I just wanted to add that I greatly appreciate Kint's and everyone else's work on the events and the reviews and stuff, this feels like a friendly part of the forum to hang out in

 

[kintsugi]

Roundtable was a lot of fun and I loved seeing people go out there and read! Part of me is kind of hesitant to trot it out too much, in case people get bored of it, but all in all:

• New scenes/fics written to the prompt (maybe <2.5k? or is that still too long? I've found drabble collectives to be kind of hard to say anything about personally, but I might be really wrong there!)
• You're free to read whichever ones you want, comment on 3 (or more/less, depending on participation)
• ?

Are folks interested in getting comments on older works, or is it mostly like "past six months is where my heart is"? I was considering making a choose your owm difficulty summer reading (and comment ig?) challenge, but I think that's mostly so that chapter fics, or older works that didn't get a lot of attention, can get some love.

 

[NumberOneSpinelApologist]

Around 2k~2,5k Max sounds like a reasonable limit to me.

I don't know about the drabble terminology, but if it was like, the longer type of drabble LOL, not the "exactly 100 words" type but idk, from 300 to 500 it could work better? There would be more to say about the work.
It would even be feasible to encourage (but not necessarily require) making some kind of comments on even more than 3 entries. Like, "comment on 2k words worth of entries" lol.
And since the event would focus on short works the time limit could be shorter too.
Idk if that would work at all since I don't exactly have much experience in writing events. I'm just making stuff up

Personally I don't mind at all getting comments on an older work.

 

[Palamon]

No one ever comments on my stuff let alone reviews it, and because I'm so invisible anyway, it doesn't matter. But, I'm indifferent, reviews change nothing for me. I write how I want and how I chose to and am not motivated by people reviewing things.

I rarely leave reviews myself. I should comment more though.

 

[theclaw]

No one ever comments on my stuff let alone reviews it, and because I'm so invisible anyway, it doesn't matter. But, I'm indifferent, reviews change nothing for me. I write how I want and how I chose to and am not motivated by people reviewing things.

I rarely leave reviews myself. I should comment more though.

Certainly on the same page there.

There's some stuff I might have to seek input on. (for one, I've yet to design my story's mecha)

 

[Viridian Beedrill]

I'm late to the discussion, but I love getting reviews and comments on any of my stuff regardless of how old it is. Just coming up with stories is a useful mental health exercise for me, but I started posting my writing online to figure out whether I could also tell a story well enough to entertain someone else. Even just occasional reviews and comments help me determine what works and what doesn't work, and I feel like I've learned a lot since I started posting here.

That said, I don't think I'm a good enough reviewer to have earned the "review pls" right, so I don't tend to ask for it outside of WW events. In those cases, participating is (based on my understanding?) implicitly asking the judges/community for reviews/comments/reactions, but the event being held is an indication that someone is already willing to give reviews/comments/reactions, so it feels less awkward. I should probably start putting notices on my work that I'm good with reviews, though, since based on this thread that seems to be a less common stance than I thought it was.

I have had a few reviews/comments for non-contest stuff out of the blue, and that's always a pleasant surprise. I still remember how excited I was when one of my non-contest pieces got picked for Book Club; it was a real confidence boost.

As for why I don't review much, it's really just a time constraint issue. It takes me a long time to get my thoughts in order. Even when I do review, I'm not sure I'm the most useful critic, haha. I tend to stick to simple stuff that writers naturally improve once they become aware of it, like overarching grammar issues ("I noticed the verb tenses kept changing") or clarity problems ("I thought this was the other character's dialog for a minute; a paragraph break when you change who's talking might be helpful"). Style critiques are beyond me, and I'm unlikely to say anything critical about the plot unless something really confused me.

I do like leaving comments about what I think a story did well, though. I don't feel like I need to agonize over wording as much, and from my experience knowing what you did right is just as useful as knowing what you did wrong. I'd like to leave comments/reviews more often, but realistically some real-life stuff will need to calm down before I have much time.

 

[Freckles]

belated apologies to everyone I criticized earlier, it was wrong and unfair of me and I'm sorry I did that

hopefully I'll do it right this time; I like getting (and giving) comments that focus on the "what" rather than the "how" of the fic, if that makes sense? I'm not really interested in the mechanics of writing themselves, more in the thoughts and emotions they provoke, so comments that try to help me improve my craft are nice but, like I said, not something I'm really interested in? if anything I don't want people to spend time on a critique I won't use

I'd actually love to write more comments, but sadly, I've not found many fics that inspire me. I'm usually not into the premise, partly because I'm not interested in shipping so that already removes quite a lot of the offer

I'll note that sometimes I see a fic I do like with lots of chapters but not a single comment, and it'd feel kinda weird for me to "break" this "stride" by writing a one? I dunno if that makes sense

 

[Audrelite]

Late to the discussion, but I too love comments but not so much reviews in the Bulba Workshop's definition of reviews. I also dislike the quid-pro-quo nature of review exchanges, hence why I've all but stoppped participating in them on the places I use to frequent. (Also, as a drabbler—and a drabble purist in the sense that variants are in wordcounts of 100—I'd be down for a drabble roundtable.)

 

[CynthiaLover]

Late to the party. Here's my 2 cents.

I appreciate comments and reviews on my work. It helps give me motivation and helps identify weak points and/or problems in the story. Since writing is a stress relief for me first and foremost knowing that someone likes what I'm writing by leaving a comment helps boost my morale and makes me want to write more. Having a review I feel is even better but not entirely necessary. But if it helps point out flaws, problems, and/or narrative holes then that's a boon to me because I'm, through and through, a hobbyist writer who tries to improve and expand as much as possible. The problem is I tend to be rather invisible to most and my stuff is rarely talked about so it makes me uncertain if I'm actually doing something that people are enjoying or am just wasting their time with my scribbles. So I appreciate comments at the least because it gives me that small push I need to keep moving on with the story.

That said, I struggle to give reviews because I'm not entirely sure how to articulate my feelings and thoughts in a way that would do whatever I'm reviewing justice. I admit I don't have the largest vocabulary (English wasn't my strong suit in school, it was science and math) so I'm not always sure if I'm getting the right words out or if I'm using the correct phrases to best explain how I feel. I do my best whenever I give reviews and I try to identify any problems and/or issues that I feel are dragging down the story but there are times I feel that I'm not the most qualified for giving proper reviews. Plus I've had a few... negative experiences with some review work that I've done that have cost me a fair bit in the past, thus further hampering my ability to give reviews. I also suffer from exposure issues, thus certain genres and/or series I'm unfamiliar with causes me to struggle more. I do the best I can, especially if the writer is new, so I can encourage them to keep pushing their story forward, but I do admit I will struggle from time to time trying to grasp the concept, genre, and/or series the story is connected to because I don't have a lot of experience in those areas. But I do the best I can to give someone a proper review so they can flourish and allow them to gain more confidence in their works.

 

[NucleoWolf]

I love receiving positive comments (of any length) on my stories (regardless of how old they are), because they let me know that people are reading and enjoying my content.

I also value respectful constructive criticisms, since they provide information on how I can improve my writing. For example, a review given for Artistic Dreams indicated that I did not adequately establish my fan-fiction as a sequel to Explosive Art, Ninja's Craft (one of the stories in Pokémon Masters EX). As a result, I plan on making revisions to it that better establish the link. I would not have caught this flaw without the review.

All that said, I don't need comments on my stories for motivation. I write fan-fictions because I like certain characters so much that I want to further explore their lives, and to share headcanons about them that cannot be expressed in a single fan-art or short fan-comic; thus, I would still write them even if nobody comments on them. "Likes" also let me know that people are reading and enjoying my content, so comments are not even necessary for that.

As for giving comments/reviews... I'll admit that this is something I need to work on...

 

[Dorothy LaRouge]

I love getting comments and thoughts on my writing, and obviously one never stops developing their craft, but I've grown confident enough in my style and voice that the practical element of long-form reviews - to receive feedback conducive to helping shape and develop your style - is no longer one for which I feel an especially burning need. On the other hand, I've been working to develop my own critical voice, which I feel I've never had enough time to properly nurture. I find myself far more fond of reviewing than of receiving reviews these days.