Do you think the writers are handling Axew, and Scraggy's growth properly?

[Masurao]

In this series we have two baby Pokemon growing alongside each other, there's been various talk about how each has been developed? Do you think they are doing a good job? What are the positives, and negative of both their progress.

 

[Hellion]

Moderator Note: Please remember that the topic of this thread is Kibago and Zuruggu specifically, this is not the thread to discuss their trainers and their growth or story. Please concentrate on Kibago and Zuruggu.

Thank you

 

[Duque]

As far as I'm concerned, scraggy is okay as a character, but, it's poor as a fighter and team member. It had a few decent battles, but it still needs more development of its power. I see scraggy more as a new phanpy: it have potential to be pretty good, it's active in the few battles it took part, however, I think a real challenge it's the only one thing left to it be truly strong pokemon and recognized as one, evolving or not.

Axew, on the other hand, it's a better generic version of togepi. I don't like the character and how it tries to be cute and likeable, but it just doesn't work (to me, at least). And the fact it is treated more like a pet than a battler doesn't help to change my perception of it. When I compare scraggy and axew, it looks like the former is heading to a chance of shine, meanwhile the chance it's given to axew out of the blue and for the sake of the plot, like tranquill/unfezant and roggenrola/boldore.

 

[Pseudonym]

It was fine until they decided to overpower Kibago. I think it was right to give Zuruggu some trouble in handling the Focus Blast, because it shows that despite it's progress it's still a baby. Not like Kibago, who, aside from having his Dragon Rage, now has Outrage and Giga Impact. So now, imagine an sparring fight between the two. Hi Jump Kick clashes with Giga Impact and then Kibago uses Dragon Rage and Zuruggu faints. I think it's a little unbalanced there, taking into account that Zuruggu made a thousand more merits, being used in the Donamite and the 7th Gym.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Out of the two, Scraggy's growth is handled pretty decently. It isn't perfect since I think Scraggy should have been a bit stronger before even learning High Jump Kick and spending a couple of episodes working on mastering that attack would have been better than learning it in one episode. That's still better than how Axew has learned its moves and I was generally okay with how it learned High Jump Kick, but I think it could have been handled a bit better all the same. Even so, they seemed to be working more on Scraggy lately, which helps to make its increase in strength more believable.

Axew, on the other hand, has been handled downright horribly. The way it learned to control Dragon Rage was a bit cheap, mainly because there was little done to help get that attack under control other than using it over and over again expecting it would work each time. Still, it was the most basic Dragon type move, so I could kind of swallow it. But the moment they gave Axew Outrage, it was clear that the writers weren't going for any actual development with Axew's growth. There's no way Axew should have been able to learn Outrage so easily when it couldn't even master Dragon Rage in one shot. I don't even understand why they bother overpowering Axew when it rarely battles and when it does battle, it's usually pretty weak. The fact that they haven't made Axew use Outrage a second time makes me wonder if they've even forgotten about that move. And now Axew learned Giga Impact. That annoys me so much since Axew hasn't done anything to actually deserve a move, let alone a really powerful one. At least Scraggy trained and worked on Focus Blast beyond one episode. I can understand not letting Axew evolve due to being a secondary mascot Pokemon, but giving Axew these overpowered moves to compensate for Axew not evolving doesn't really work when both of them are cheap and undeserving deus ex machina to give the illusion that Axew has grown stronger since the start of the series when it really hasn't.

 

[Caseydia]

Scraggy is coming along nicely. I don't want to touch the Axew topic just yet. I'm waiting for a few Iris fans to get their fill in here first.:goof:

The way I see it, Scraggy might get another battle soon. Hopefully evolving in the league. I don't want Axew to evolve when Scraggy does because it had lots of time to evolve but never did. I don't see how it would be fair if Scraggy has been trianing more than Axew and they both evolve together. That just doesn't seem to sit right with me. The understand the whole brothers/friends issue but that won't last forever. So I'm rooting for Scraggy to keep taking down opponents like it's been doing. But I love how much focus it has been getting.

I'll talk about Axew later.

 

[Gengarzilla]

Axew learned Outrage and Giga Impact with no problem at all while Scraggy is struggling with that Focus Blast. I personally think the writers are biased against poor little Scraggy.

Hoping for an evolution or Head Smash soon.

 

[Yankees4life]

Does it really matter?? Either way, they're gonna evolve and they're gonna take A WHILE to evolve...

 

[Ambipom666]

Duque, who said above that Axew feels more like a pet a than battler, made a good point. I can't take Axew all that seriously as a tough opponent. With it's powerful moves, it seems the writers want us to regard Axew as a powerful battler and at the same time have it serve as a cute mascot/marketing whore. I know, preaching to the choir here, but I don't think it's really trained enough to get not one, but two powerful moves, both pulled off flawlessly. It does get to battle every now and then, which is good, but I do wish we could see it train more consistently. Pretty disappointing how we've seen it wanting to evolve but the writers seemingly having no desire to evolve it, but it's better than having another small walking Pokémon that has no desire to evolve.

Scraggy is a really nice baby Pokémon, since we Ash really stick with it and work it up, it has a nice collection of moves but none of them really seem undeserved. Even now, it has a goal to reach with the mastering of Focus Blast. I look forward to seeing it evolve, learn more powerful moves and kick some real ass.

 

[Paulisthebest]

In a word "No."

I don't feel like their growths are going well at all. In terms of growth or actual development that can be considered "believable" I'll give that award to Scraggy. I mean the little guy is trying to hard so get stronger and for the most part we can see a lot of growth since it was first hatched in more than just its power but its personality, skill and its relationship with its trainer (ok, that's the only reference I'll make to Ash).

What I found interesting was in the episode when that wild Scrafty takes Axew to help it battle back for its home, (correct me if I'm wrong) it had the same moves as Ash's Scraggy; Leer, Headbutt, Hi Jump Kick and Focus Blast (which Scraggy would learn later on).

So, this could mean that it may not evolve due to its evolution being shown in the same episode along with it knowing the same moves (sadly it lost to a Tepig), I don't know just a thought.

I don't know if the writers will pull of "Snorunt" and let it evolve while it masters a move that it struggling with or what, but like Snorunt (who evolved and then master Ice Beam or Starly evolving and mastering Aerial Ace), the writers will evolve it or not probably based on Axew.

In terms of Axew, I have nothing to say that everyone else has already addressed so to cut it short (without bring up its trainer...) its just a shame.

I mean we learned that Axew is pretty much a "baby" Pokemon still learning basic moves and skills so when Scraggy was introduced that rivarly would be a good way for BOTH of them to grow together despite the fact that Axew is a little older. So, that sibling rivalry could grow as time went on.

Heck, I figured that the two would evolve together or something like that (with Axew having one more than Scraggy though), I got the idea considering Axew always seemed to be "one move ahead" of Scraggy. Like it learned Outrage right before Hi Jump Kick for Scraggy. Focus Blast gave Scraggy an edge, but being not able to control it gave Axew the lead (but Outrage leaves it confused not counting the fact that Scraggy could survive long enough to let those effects kick in), but with Giga Impact on the move-set (along with the fact that recharge time is all but extinct in BW) Axew is winning...

Not to mention the ridiculous endurance it has been shown to have *cough* Garchomp...yeah that's just about all I have to say on the matter.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Does it really matter?? Either way, they're gonna evolve and they're gonna take A WHILE to evolve...

I think that Scraggy is the only one of the two who has even a chance of evolving at this point. I doubt that they'll have Axew evolve even at the end of the series since they seem more interested in making Axew more of the cute secondary mascot with overpowered moves than evolving it.

 

[Ambipom666]

Axew could evolve during Iris' re-appearance in the next series. I wouldn't rule out an end-of-series evolution, though.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Axew could evolve during Iris' re-appearance in the next series. I wouldn't rule out an end-of-series evolution, though.

I'm personally hoping that Iris doesn't have a cameo in the next series since I don't care about what she'll be doing after BW ends, but I know that the chances of the writers breaking that tradition is pretty small. Evolving in her reappearance could be possible, at least more so than Axew evolving in the the actual series, but I'm not sure if they would want to make the cute little secondary mascot Pokemon evolve. They only did that with Togepi and then it was released. I'm not sure if I even want Axew to evolve at all at this point given how it will most likely be cheap and undeserved based on how the writing has been for Iris up to this point.

 

[blowsave]

Scraggy I don't have any major complaints about, but it's not like they've done a great job or anything.

Axew's been completely wasted.

 

[HumanDawn]

@Moe; Moving it to here since it has nothing to do with the episode.

Scraggy who gets left looking weak because Axew gets to jump up a power level at random despite both of them training at a fairly even pace?

I first have to confirm this - We are talking about the same show right? About the same Axew and Scraggy? Did you by any chance confuse their names? Okay.

Not counting their training matches, Scraggy, who is younger than Axew, has beaten three fully evolved Pokemon (one of which Scraggy OHKO with a Hi-Jump-Kick) and Brycen's(A Gym Leader's!) Vannilish. He has also lasted longer than Excadrill against Montgomery's Throh, while Axew has only beaten a Golett and destroyed Team Rocket's helicopter twice. So..... How is Scraggy looking weaker than Axew again? It comes off as no surprise since Ash is a better trainer than Iris.

 

[Moe]

Comparatively weak, not outright weak - Scraggy is probably the best example of development on Ash's team in terms of being reasonable increments in power.

The problem I'm pointing to is that Scraggy and Axew started out at the same level, Axew had Scratch and Scraggy had Headbutt - and they both did about the same damage to eachother. They then did the majority of their training together, Axew all of a sudden got one of the most powerful Dragon type moves in Dragon Rage and then Axew was suddenly way ahead in power. Then before Scraggy gets a chance to catch up, Axew gets Outrage as well. After finally getting Hi-Jump Kick to even vaguely have a poweful attack, just as Scraggy starts to build up strength and gets Focus Blast - all of a sudden Axew gets Giga Impact to just knock back any progress Scraggy might have been making in getting close in strength again.

Iris doesn't put in any more training than Ash - yet Axew's results are far superior. Axew was 'recently hatched' when given to Iris and was certainly at the same power level as Scraggy in their first battle, so I don't buy being younger as an excuse for it. Scraggy's weakness is that he gets trained just as much, by someone just as skilled if not moreso as a trainer, but the results are no where near equal - which makes Scraggy look weak in comparison to Axew.

Scraggy's storyline is good - I certainly don't want Scraggy to have instead mastered Focus Blast instantly or got another massively powerful move to bring it up to par - I just want Axew to have developed at a similar rate and not keep constantly being a massive leap ahead of a Pokemon it started out as being on the same level of for no good reason.

 

[fawfulmark2]

if anything, they are complete opposites, reflecting hard work vs. being spoiled.

Scraggy has been striving to become stronger since it's birth, representing the underdog we all root for and want to improve and become the best. we see him train, and we know one day that this dood will be great.and I am certainly anticipating the day he becomes Scrafty, because his growth is believable( no wonder Scrafty is my favorite Gen 5 Poke.)

Axew is the invese. rarely does anything, yet gets all the spoils. it's never really trained for battle hardly at all, yet keeps getting immense power for free.in fact, pretty much allhis training time it should have is wasted on Excadrill...you know,instead of working on making him the Hax-R-Us it should be by now.

 

[Reivaxe]

I think they're being handled well enough.

To ME it seems that the writers want Axew to be shown as having the potential to be powerful but not like Piplup (who has strong attacks, great mobility and is a good battler ... which is why it doesn't seem to NEED to evolve). That's why even though he has some of the most powerful moves a Hax can learn and great endurance it's still not a super great battler. If they were to actually MAKE him a great/ powerhouse battler at this stage then he would go into Piplup or Pikachu mode (as in, what use is there in evolving when you don't have a much of a problem slapping down fully grown Pokemon?). That's why I think he doesn't get many battles right now, I think he's gonna fully evolve at the end of BW and if that's to happen then he just can't look like one of those Pokemon that don't need to evolve.

Scraggy doesn't have the problems Axew has, he only evolves once and isn't a out-side Pokemon. It can be shown to grow as a battler and take on strong Pokemon because they want to show him keeping up with Axew's power. They're clearly linked as rivals/ bros, they are just shown improving in different ways. In a way I think that they're development is being handled counter to each other.

Outside of their battles together Axew is shown to train more with other Pokemon (Pansage/ Excadrill and Garchomp) where as Scraggy is shown to battle more in actual battles. They're even when they battle each other (shown by the fact that they always tie) but right now Scraggy is better at battling and Axew has more power which makes them pretty level.

Once they evolve (I'm sure it will be in a match against each other. Double evolution!) I feel like Scrafty will start pumping up it's power by learning stronger moves (Like head smash/ zen headbutt/ some kind of punch/ Dark Pulse or any number of moves that are stronger than what he has now) and Fraxure will start pumping up it's battle skills by getting something to replace Scratch (Dragon claw or Dual Chop would be welcome) and partaking in more battles. To show off it's new skills.

As for where they go after that, I could very well see Fraxure evolving in a battle with the Bear. The Dragon Basher wont be dealt with until Iris beats her with a Dragon Type ... and Dragonite is clearly too much for her powerhouse bear so it makes no sense to have a rematch when Dragonite obeys Iris. Fraxure could prove how much he and Iris have grown by them having a full 3 on 3 battle were he finally evolves into a Hax at the end while battling her strongest Pokemon.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think they're being handled well enough.

To ME it seems that the writers want Axew to be shown as having the potential to be powerful but not like Piplup (who has strong attacks, great mobility and is a good battler ... which is why it doesn't seem to NEED to evolve). That's why even though he has some of the most powerful moves a Hax can learn and great endurance it's still not a super great battler. If they were to actually MAKE him a great/ powerhouse battler at this stage then he would go into Piplup or Pikachu mode (as in, what use is there in evolving when you don't have a much of a problem slapping down fully grown Pokemon?). That's why I think he doesn't get many battles right now, I think he's gonna fully evolve at the end of BW and if that's to happen then he just can't look like one of those Pokemon that don't need to evolve.

I think that they would need to make Axew into a good battler before giving it overpowered moves and evolving it in order to make it look believable. Plus, unlike with Piplup, Axew wants to evolve, so I don't think showing it as a capable battler would have prevented them from evolving. If anything, it's the fact that it's a secondary mascot of BW that prevents Axew from evolving more than anything else. At this rate, I can't see Axew evolving at all and I doubt that they'll make it into a Haxorus by the end of the series. It's possible, but looks really unlikely to me at this point, especially when she already has a fully evolved Dragon type on her team.

Scraggy doesn't have the problems Axew has, he only evolves once and isn't a out-side Pokemon. It can be shown to grow as a battler and take on strong Pokemon because they want to show him keeping up with Axew's power. They're clearly linked as rivals/ bros, they are just shown improving in different ways. In a way I think that they're development is being handled counter to each other.

Outside of their battles together Axew is shown to train more with other Pokemon (Pansage/ Excadrill and Garchomp) where as Scraggy is shown to battle more in actual battles. They're even when they battle each other (shown by the fact that they always tie) but right now Scraggy is better at battling and Axew has more power which makes them pretty level.

Even though Axew keeps getting overpowered moves and is technically older than Scraggy is, I think that Scraggy is the stronger of the two. It has more training, which may not say that much, and it actually has defeated other Pokemon in battle. Axew, as far as I know, hasn't really done that yet, so I don't think that Scraggy needs to keep up with Axew's power. I don't think that they're on an equal level at this point.

Once they evolve (I'm sure it will be in a match against each other. Double evolution!) I feel like Scrafty will start pumping up it's power by learning stronger moves (Like head smash/ zen headbutt/ some kind of punch/ Dark Pulse or any number of moves that are stronger than what he has now) and Fraxure will start pumping up it's battle skills by getting something to replace Scratch (Dragon claw or Dual Chop would be welcome) and partaking in more battles. To show off it's new skills.

As for where they go after that, I could very well see Fraxure evolving in a battle with the Bear. The Dragon Basher wont be dealt with until Iris beats her with a Dragon Type ... and Dragonite is clearly too much for her powerhouse bear so it makes no sense to have a rematch when Dragonite obeys Iris. Fraxure could prove how much he and Iris have grown by them having a full 3 on 3 battle were he finally evolves into a Hax at the end while battling her strongest Pokemon.

I still can't really see Axew evolving, but the idea of Axew and Scraggy evolving at the same time does sound kind of cool. I think that there's a much better chance that Scraggy will be the only one to evolve since it does battle, while Axew just stays on the sidelines and looks cute. It also helps that Scraggy isn't a mascot Pokemon like Axew is. I also think it's far too late to have Axew's evolution reflect any growth or accomplishments on Axew and Iris' parts, especially when neither one of them have really grown that much, if at all, during the course of the series.

 

[The Froakster]

Scraggy's doing great so far! It's mastering Focus Blast, already has a great attack, Hi Jump Kick. Axew on the other hand is pretty spoiled. If it can't master Dragon Rage, the arguably most basic dragon attack, then how does it get handed Outrage and Giga Impact like that?