Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festival ?

[Hellion]

Back to making threads by popular demand. Well, Iteru...

So, finals of the Grand Festival are this week and the matchup is confirmed to be Dawn's Togekiss and Piplup vs Zoey's Glameow and Gallade. Now I'm a huge Dawn fan and I hope she really does pull off a win next week, but it does bother me a bit that she's using Togekiss, a pokémon that was raised by another character and that Dawn got 3-4 episodes before the start of the GF, in the finals of the Grand Festival against her main rival Zoey for a couple of reasons.

First, Dawn's never beaten Zoey, not only that, she wasn't shown to be close to beating Zoey in their one official contest battle in Jubilife, where Buneary got beaten by Glameow. So, Dawn winning with a Pokémon that was trained and raised by another character when she couldn't beat Zoey with the Pokémon she'd trained herself takes a bit of the shine off of her victory (if she does win) since it doesn't really prove that Dawn was superior to Zoey since she had to rely on a powerhouse she hasn't trained to defeat her rival.

Second, Togekiss hasn't been really tested in double battles before, it hasn't really been trained for combinations with Piplup, and hasn't really shown to totally listen to Dawn when she used it in training. I think it's a bit farfetched (no pun intended) for a coordinator to use a pokémon she just got, she hasn't fully trained and win with it.

Another thing that bothers me is the lack of continuity. Buneary was the one who lost to Zoey in Jubilife, now it'll never get the chance to make up for it in an official contest battle. Piplup and Pachi both had that double contest battle against Johanna's Glameow and Umbreon, it could have been amazing to reference that by having them both in a double battle against Glameow and Leafeon. Mamoswine is the pokémon that probably had the most developpement under Dawn's care. A Cyndaquil and Piplup combo could have referenced May and Dawn's double battle. Basically, Togekiss is the one pokémon out of Dawn's team that has the least reason to be in this match.

For the record, I'm not against Dawn getting Togekiss and using it in the GF. She could have used it in the semis or against Ursula or in the appeal, but why in the finals ? Hopefully it'll be a good match.

So, what's your opinion ?

 

[Cascada]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

Absolutely not, if anything it increases her chances, I'll explain more later.

Also, Dawn better win this shit!

 

[anonymous920314]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

I think that Togekiss has proved itself to be an experienced pokémon through both its attitude and its skill set... While it is a bit disappointing that Mimirol isn't being used, I really think Hikari is using Togekiss to get an aerial advantage that she wouldn't be able to achieve otherwise.

 

[Masurao]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

Togekiss was just added to increase Dawn's chances of winning it seems. It had 1 episode on training, and that was basically it. The fact that she was just handed a power house that she didn't actually train much is a bit cheap IMO. It could have been added much earlier, but that fact that it was added a mere 2 episode before the GF is just eh.

 

[Sombra29]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

Another thing that bothers me is the lack of continuity. Buneary was the one who lost to Zoey in Jubilife, now it'll never get the chance to make up for it in an official contest battle. Piplup and Pachi both had that double contest battle against Johanna's Glameow and Umbreon, it could have been amazing to reference that by having them both in a double battle against Glameow and Leafeon. Mamoswine is the pokémon that probably had the most developpement under Dawn's care. A Cyndaquil and Piplup combo could have referenced May and Dawn's double battle. Basically, Togekiss is the one pokémon out of Dawn's team that has the least reason to be in this match.

Never say never.There could always be an unbeatable lightness of seeing remake.

Anyway,I don't care at all.I just spec this battle to be good.

Plus...a Pokemon coordinator doesnt really have to train his/her pokemon,sure it helps,but the most important part is rather...well..coordinating them for show time.

This is also why I dont care about Jessie using Jame´s pokemon.

 

[Grave-E]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

I guess it depends on whether you're into the development or story of the character. I'm not, so I honestly don't really care, and am just looking for an enjoyable brawl between the monsters.
As long as Togekiss prevents other, unevolved pokemon from taking part, then development be damned, I'll let it's admitedly cheap presence slide, simply because it's preventing the rest from getting involved. Hell, I ain't too thrilled Piplup is taking part. Yeah, yeah, you can call me shallow and give me that 'unevolved pokemon are just as good' speil all ya want, but as far as I'm concerned, it ain't quite as exciting if they don't look like, or pull off the moves of, a capable fighter. Part of the reason May's GF final was so good was because they got Squirtle out of there quick-ish and brought it down to a scrap between two tough looking pokemon. Overheat coming out of nowhere was a deus ex machina for sure, but that still didn't stop the bout from being fun to watch.

 

[Iteru]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

Back to making threads by popular demand. Well, Iteru...

Well I didn't want to complain too much in the DP177 thread and I don't have experence making threads myself. (Poll!)

Anyway onto thread. I could not agree more with the OP. The final is where we will see pretty much the conclusion of the contest arc for the DP saga and well, it doesn't make much sense to me to see it end in a different way then it began. Pochama and Mimirol are Hikari's first two Pokémon and as said by Gible, Mimirol was used against Nozomi and Nyarmar before in a losing effort. I don't particularly like the rabbit but I do feel that this is a bit unjust for it not to have its "revenge" if you will and also for some redemption. For the second capture it surely hasn't gotten much focus at all and as seen in last week's ep, didn't get much of a battle. Mimirol might have gotten the appeal round but everyone of Hikari's Pokés deserved a somewhat spotlighted battle. A few of them deserve an incredibly spotlighted battle which leads me to my next point.

No way in hell does Togekiss deserve to be in the final. It has been on Hikari's team for around 5 episodes which isn't that long compared to the other members. Surely Manmoo, probably the most developed Pokémon in the contest arc should also have a deserved spot in this battle before Togekiss? It would be a further display of how far Hikari has come to get to the final and to also show her own style in contest battles instead of just using "cute" critters. We've also had some moments where Manmoo has knocked Pochama out in the past; I think it would be great to see the two working together successfully if for some reason Mimirol can't be in the final instead.

I'd also like to mention Togekiss' purpose in general. Let's face it, it is there to fill the 6th slot in Hikari's team. There's nothing else to it, if there was then the Pokémon would have gotten more development and therefore we would be more familiar with it. Personally it is going to come off as a stranger in the battle. I barely know it. Hikari barely knows it. What a silly gamble to use the Pokémon that you have the least experience with in the most important battle of you life. This is just stupidity at its finest. Why not just have Togekiss used against Candy Musalina, they at least have some history if you can even call it that. Togekiss is so severly undeveloped, it might as well not exist.

There's always the potential for Eteboth to have taken the 6th role. While it has been firmly establish that she prefers Pokémon Ping Pong, I could easily see her returning to help her previous trainer and friend. As someone said on the DP177 thread, we could have seen her ping pong skills in action. I'm almost positive that they would have made them more interesting then when we saw them before against Kengo. It's a shame that such a potential situation has gone to waste for something that can sadly barely gain my interest.

The fact that Togekiss is a fully evolved Pokémon also bothers me to a degree. It really does seem like a powerhouse off the bat, with no effort required on Hikari's part. Now that seems unfair to Hikari and of course contests are not all about power, so why do we need a powerful Poké? In the preview for the final, we see Pochama using the spin move that was created early on in DP. Such a simple move yet brilliant move, the power that Togekiss will bring seems irrelevant. Again, Mimirol would have been perfect. We could have seen both Pochama and Mimirol utilise the spin, like they both did in the episode of its creation. Such continuity gone to waste...

It just seems like a slap in the face if you ask me.

 

[Duckgon Z]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

I guess it depends on whether you're into the development or story of the character. I'm not, so I honestly don't really care, and am just looking for an enjoyable brawl between the monsters.
As long as Togekiss prevents other, unevolved pokemon from taking part, then development be damned, I'll let it's admitedly cheap presence slide, simply because it's preventing the rest from getting involved. Hell, I ain't too thrilled Piplup is involved. Yeah, yeah, you can call me shallow and give me that 'unevolved pokemon are just as good' spiel all ya want, but as far as I'm concerned, it ain't quite as exciting if they don't look like, or pull off the moves of, a capable fighter. Part of the reason May's GF final was so good was because they got Squirtle out of there quick-ish and brought it down to a scrap between two tough looking pokemon. Overheat coming out of nowhere was a deus ex machina for sure, but that still didn't stop the bout from being fun to watch.

This.

Also, this is about the same reason I don't particularly care if Gliscor comes back and kills one of Paul's Pokemon (if it does, don't start Scott). The only differnce is Gliscor isn't, and wouldn't be the reason Ash beats Paul, since Infernape and Pikachu are probably doing most of the work and I have no doubt they'd take out whatever Gliscor takes out, if he does at all (again, don't chime in).

Togekiss is basically the writers going "We can't write a better situation for Dawn to win her Grand Festival, so let's have her conveniently have her catch a strong fully evolved Pokemon and have it only be used in the Finals." The rest will hammer itself out, but this is why I don't think her winning this GF is that big of a deal.

 

[Dawn~]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

As much as I want Dawn to win, I truly do want her to lose because of this. (Not only that but it'll give Dawn a bigger reason to continue on with Ash)

But, she really should have used a different Pokemon. I was expecting Buneary. Would have been much better. Ehhhh. Sort of disheartening. *Shrug* We'll see.

If she loses, then it'll be a good thing she used Togekiss in my opinion. It'll give her the mindset "I have to train my own Pokemon, or work harder to train those I get through trades!"

If she wins... eh. Not fair. She gets a powerhouse right beforehand and proceeds to rip apart Zoey, who has worked VERY hard with her Pokemon.

 

[#Daisuke#]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

Not really. Togekiss was a great Pokemon for Dawn, and I'm sure that it will do a great job in the battle against Zoey.

It had probably been training with Princess Salvia quite a bit before that contest. And Dawn trained it even more, so now we have powerhouse going up against Zoey. Plus Togekiss is elegant. It's sure to make an epic battle against Glameow and Gallade.

But, that's just my opinion. As long as Dawn wins I'll be happy. XD

 

[Masurao]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

It had probably been training with Princess Salvia quite a bit before that contest. And Dawn trained it even more, so now we have powerhouse going up against Zoey. Plus Togekiss is elegant. It's sure to make an epic battle against Glameow and Gallade.

For one episode. That's alot of training right there. Let's hope Togekiss get's knocked out quick, and Dawn will have to rely on a Pokemon she actually raised herself.

 

[Dawn~]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

For one episode. That's alot of training right there. Let's hope Togekiss get's knocked out quick, and Dawn will have to rely on a Pokemon she actually raised herself.

If that happens then I will be VERY happy. If Dawn wins with Piplup after Togekiss has been knocked out that will be fantastic and it'll show her off as a fantastic trainer/coordinator.

 

[Zoe]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

Absolutely not, if anything it increases her chances, I'll explain more later.

Also, Dawn better win this shit!

Nah. Zoey going to win this shit! We'll see what happens if Togekiss gets knocked out early, will Dawn struggle?

 

[Cascada]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

If anything, Togekiss is going to help Dawn. The writers can do whatever the hell they want, like it or not. The writers could make Togekiss or Piplup deliver the finishing blow, the writers could make Dawn lose as well.

My whole thing is, if the writers wanted Dawn to lose, why give her a Pokemon so late in the game, cleary, this is to perfect a combination and to give Dawn a significant Pokemon that could help her tremendously.

If the writers wanted Dawn to lose, they could have used any other Pokemon.

Do you guys really think that the writers won't give Piplup a win here, when it's last one fully shown battle in a contest was 98 episodes ago, and Togekiss was given to Dawn to help accomplish her dreams as well as Dawn and as a Thank You from the Princess.

I really believe Princess Salvia giving Dawn her Togekiss was her giving Dawn good luck and a huge thank you for making her dreams come true.

If you watch DP 171, you'll realize the way Dawn looked at Togekiss at the end of the episode and how Piplup and Togekiss became such good friends, hints at Dawn winning.

Also, it's Piplup, Piplup who won Dawn's 1st 2 ribbons, who beat May for crying out loud, and who was showcased like hell all damn saga. Bottom line, Dawn needs to win, because if she doesn't, it really doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

 

[Cybersai]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

I guess Togekiss losing first with Piplup getting the win would be fine.

 

[Cascada]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

I guess Togekiss losing first with Piplup getting the win would be fine.

While I want Dawn to win at all costs, I want Togekiss to get some recognition.

It is taking Ambipom's spot more than Cyndaquil did, and it was given to Dawn for a special purpose.

If anything, Piplup is loved by the writers, I just can't see Dawn losing to Zoey at this point.

If the writers did make Zoey win, then Kenny and Dawn really should have battle, cause the only full on screen win we saw Dawn win was Ursula, who she beat 2wice.

Jessie's battle was rushed, meanwhile Zoey winning, Zoey would have gotten 2 full on screen wins, which is 1 more full on screen win than Dawn, which is bullshit, cause it's Dawn's GF.

Togekiss and Piplup losing, and Piplup being remembered by the end of DP only doing something as its running gags is sad.

Dawn better win, and that's that!!!

 

[#Daisuke#]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

For one episode. That's alot of training right there. Let's hope Togekiss get's knocked out quick, and Dawn will have to rely on a Pokemon she actually raised herself.

Hey, at least she trained it...a bit... :U

Edit:

Spoiler

Dawn better win, and that's that!!!

QFT!!

 

[Zoe]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

While I want Dawn to win at all costs, I want Togekiss to get some recognition.

It is taking Ambipom's spot more than Cyndaquil did, and it was given to Dawn for a special purpose.

If anything, Piplup is loved by the writers, I just can't see Dawn losing to Zoey at this point.

If the writers did make Zoey win, then Kenny and Dawn really should have battle, cause the only full on screen win we saw Dawn win was Ursula, who she beat 2wice.

Jessie's battle was rushed, meanwhile Zoey winning, Zoey would have gotten 2 full on screen wins, which is 1 more full on screen win than Dawn, which is bullshit, cause it's Dawn's GF.

Togekiss and Piplup losing, and Piplup being remembered by the end of DP only doing something as its running gags is sad.

Dawn better win, and that's that!!!

OK, OK, we the get point Dawn doesn't get enough screentime etc and Dawn going to win.

 

[Cybersai]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

Thinking about it again, I really would have rathered Mamoswine be in the finals with Piplup. It just made more sense given its development.

Togekiss should have been used against Jessie, with Cynda moved to the Ursula fight.

 

[The One and Only....]

Re: Does it bother you that Dawn is using Togekiss in the finals of the Grand Festiva

funny how people don't have a problem with Dawn using togekiss in the Gf but they have a problem with the idea of Ash using Gliscor aganist paul