Does the presence of a metagame add or detract from the quality of Pokemon?

does the presence of a metagame add or detract from the quality of Pokemon?

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DCM

DCM

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Recently in my travels across the internet, i discovered a group of people who insisted that the presence of the metagame simply detracted from the quality of Pokemon as a whole, specifically the current metagame. Needless to say, this issue intrigued me. why would a metagame take away from the experience of the game? What is at fault with this metagame that turns people off so much?

heres the reasons I could think of

1)The Typical "stop having fun guys" group, ie the group who takes these things way too seriously and really just take the fun away from everyone else.

2)Too difficult to inagurate ones self into

3) The Tiers.

but on the same hand, i personally think two and three really add to the experience.

I suppose i might be a bit biased, considering how many hours i've poured into the metagame, crafting my team, then a gym system to use that team in.

so bulbagarden, this is where i ask you, Does the presence of a metagame add or detract from the quality of Pokemon? I'm curious which way the majority of bulbagarden leans to.

I would appreciate it if when you answer this question you elaborate upon why you answered it so.
 
I'm my opinion it adds to it but for only those who enjoy it. To me it adds to the quality because it can make you use some of the features that you might have never touched, like breeding for moves, EV training, etc.

Plus the team building and battles require you to think.
 
Coco said:
Plus the team building and battles require you to think.
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thats a big thing for me also. I like to think when I'm playing games, and plan ahead. the games themselves dont really bring that.
 
I think the way the metagame is treated sort of brings Pokemon down. I just find it way too serious and I don't really have a lot of fun battling on such a competitive level. I'm not gonna lie, I use some competitive strategies, but I still customize them to my own tastes. The fact that some many sets are the same, the consistent switching, and the tier system just bother me.

Plus, it kind of bugs me that ALL of these standards are set by Smogon with nobody raising a voice against their treatment of it. =/
 
SquirtleMan493 said:
Plus, it kind of bugs me that ALL of these standards are set by Smogon with nobody raising a voice against their treatment of it. =/
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Please no Smogon bashing. There is nothing wrong with them having an original idea such as that and creating such a popular fan-site from the ground up.
 
Coco said:
Please no Smogon bashing. There is nothing wrong with them having an original idea such as that and creating such a popular fan-site from the ground up.
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on the other hand, they are a veryinclusive website. that does detract from the experience, and thus the metagame, as they are the representative
 
Coco said:
Please no Smogon bashing. There is nothing wrong with them having an original idea such as that and creating such a popular fan-site from the ground up.
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I have nothing against Smogon at all, I just can't believe that they are the ONLY ones with a say over the metagame. All competitive communities seem to build around their system and I just wish there were other options. Their stuff sort of gets old after awhile...
 
DCM said:
on the other hand, they are a veryinclusive website. that does detract from the experience, and thus the metagame, as they are the representative
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They are? How?
SquirtleMan493 said:
I have nothing against Smogon at all, I just can't believe that they are the ONLY ones with a say over the metagame. All competitive communities seem to build around their system and I just wish there were other options. Their stuff sort of gets old after awhile...
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They're the one's that have the most balanced Tier systems from what I've seen. As for "other options" I don't know what those might be.
 
It adds because it's not required. You can enjoy the game all you want, but if you want to fight others, there's that option too. And not everyone plays with the metagame. I don't. But for those that like that sort of thing, it's there for them too.
 
it does both, but i'm just going to comment on how it detracts the quality.

i see this especially in wi-fi battles. people have ruined the fun to battle other people via wi-fi. i always end up battling people who use the most common, annoying pokémon. dragonite, skarmory, blissey, tyranitar, salamence, metagross, empoleon, hippowdon, lucario, and garchomp are all of the pokémon that made me lose interest. i've seen them so many times on teams that i just lost the motivation to battle trainers all across the world. it's such a shame, 'cause there are over 400 pokémon and people keep using the strongest ones. where's the fun in that? :\ i've never seen anyone use pokémon such as vileplume, venomoth, electrode, pinsir, politoed, delcatty, crawdaunt, chimecho, huntail, gorebyss, wormadam, mothim, purugly, and lumineon. even though most of them could faint easily, i'd rather battle or use these ones rather than the overpowered and banal ones.
 
Coco said:
They are? How?

They're the one's that have the most balanced Tier systems from what I've seen. As for "other options" I don't know what those might be.
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would you like examples of how inclusive they are, or how that detracts from the metagame?

as for inclusive, thats a topic for a different thread completely, and I'd prefer not to derail this into a smogon hate thread. if you wish to find out, VM me.

but they do represent the metagame community as a whole, and if theyre inclusive, it gives a bad impression.

@misty., the problem there is that the pokemon you see too often are actually good, actually usable. where as the ones you don't arent. thats where the tiers come in, so you can use your favourites in their appropriate tier.

as for other tier systems, marriland has a bad one.
 
I definitely think it adds to the game play. I kinda lost interest in Pokemon before I started learning about EV's, IV's and such. The game itself is just too easy. The metagame gives the player something more his/ her money if they so wish to put the time into it.

As far as seeing the same Pokemon over and over again in metagame, I admit that is kinda annoying. ANyone who went to VGC's (at least in America) saw that prolly 80% (at least) of teams had an Abomasnow. Yeah this lacks originality perhaps, but this is true in every type of metagame: Fighting games see the same few characters played all the time, the same way every time; TCG/CCG players see the same decks consistently played and consistently winning. This is pretty much unavoidable.

As far as the people saying Smogon being too inclusive, I agree and disagree. I agree because a lot of people go there, if nothing else for reference material, and it is a very large database of knowledge. On the other hand Smogon is all about single battle strategy (by this I mean all the movesets and spreads are for single battle), most official Pokemon tournaments are double, which changes strategy A LOT!

I honestly wish the metagame had a bigger following, at least in my area.
 
I believe it adds to the game. It's not something I've dabbled in, as I find it too time consuming and barely worth the effort since I don't battle competitively. Though I did start getting into the breeding game a bit with natures, but nothing past that.

I guess I'm too much of a casual, I play the game for the game itself, not to battle the hardcore players.
 
There are all kinds of metagames. It's not one tangible object. There will be one whether someone plays competitively or not because people will naturally seek out what is most effective within the bounds they are playing in.

btw, Smogon OU under standard clauses isn't the only metagame though it's the most visible competitive one. I do agree though that they do have a monopoly and some controversial decisions make that painfully more visible (Salamence *coughcough*). However, there's VGC, which Smogon has no control over, ubers, which is basically standard clauses and no Arceus, and some communities have taken BL and below into their own hands. Some people add or take clauses, like no legends or no double sash and crap like that.

But yeah, there is no single metagame, and it will exist no matter what so this topic is sort of moot, unless you specify the competitive OU metagame under standard clauses or the Smogon tiering system in general.

My point? You really can't say that something adds or detracts because it is pretty much the game itself and will always be there. You could say the different styles adds to the quality due to the versatility of the game which we play, but it's really variants of the same thing.

/philosophical
 
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I wouldn't say it adds to the quality of Pokemon, but it certainly doesn't detract from it. It's simply just another way of battling. I think it's a bit silly to despise the competitive community, for whatever reason.
 
To me, it adds to the quality of Pokemon. The strategizing portion of Pokemon is put into play here, and I like to strategize (most of the time).
 
I don't think it detracts the quality exactly, but adds another layer of entertainment to another form of player. I mean, I'm not all for the tier ideas and stuff, but I do like the ideas of the competitive and strategic movesets and such.
 
I think it definately adds. I really like IV breeding/EV training because it makes me proud of my pokes :p Also, not everyone is forced to do all this, only those who actually want to do it.
 
i honestly can't see how it could take away from the game - if it wasn't for the depth of strategies pokemon fans would be dwindling imo (i know i'd be bored of playing by now)

regarding the tier system - i respect the amount of research that's gone into it but i do think some people follow it too much - to say "OMG GARCHOMP AND WOBBUFFET R UBER U CANT USE DEM!!!" is a cop out imo - they're in the game so adjust your strategies around them - if that means carrying their counters in your team then deal with it dudes - imo the metagame should have 3 tiers (NFE/standard/legend) & be adjusted to fit them

/rant

also, why is there no decent double-battles guide yet??? i would prefer EV spreads & movesets for them as that's what i enjoy playing the most - someone on bulbagarden should seriously get some good competitive battlers together & do this
 
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