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Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

The 4Kids Flashback interview with former 4Kids music producer John Siegler is available to the public now.

I highly recommend you guys listen to what he has to say at the 37:00 mark. Sheds a lot of light into the mentality 4Kids had when replacing music for Pokémon in particular.

The underscoring, for even – from the minute 4Kids started making Pokémon shows, the concept was that we were gonna keep certain basic parts of the original Japanese music, and we were gonna replace as much of the rest of it as we could, and it was purely... Well, I won't say purely. It was a business decision. The music was an – you know, an income source. And it was an important income source because it helped to pay for the whole production. And, so, I think we kept a – if I remember, a quarter to a third... Like, there were certain cues in the Japanese music that we always used. Like, if they were walking somewhere, they were going somewhere, you'd always hear that little piece of music, right? And, uh, there were some battle cues that we used. But... So, the other side of that was that a lot of that music we didn't like. It wasn't... We didn't feel that it was right for the American audience. [...] It's a different thing. And, so, the other idea was, that we would rescore the shows... And again, my buddy Ralph Shuckett was an important part of this. Because he kind of created the – or the basic idea of what we called "cinematic cartoon scoring". Which was orchestral in nature... Not always, but orchestral in nature, and... [...] So, that was the genesis of that sound. And so... it wasn't that the Japanese music was bad, it just wasn't – we didn't feel [it was] right for American kids, that it needed to be more energetic, it needed to be more intense. And there was some cheesy, kind of faux-rock, Japanese rock kind of stuff.
 
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The 4Kids Flashback interview with former 4Kids music producer John Siegler is available to the public now.

I highly recommend you guys listen to what he has to say at the 37:00 mark. Sheds a lot of light into the mentality 4Kids had when replacing music for Pokémon in particular.

Honestly Siegler's reasoning makes sense to me, I think they did a reasonably good job of mixing the new music in with the original stuff and he's right about American kids preferring to have constant music, that's the same thing Disney said in regards to their English dub of Kiki's Delivery Service where they asked the original creators if it was OK for them to put music in during silent moments since that's what American kids are used to and the original creators said it was fine, that dub came out in 1997 right around the time Pokemon was starting so I can see how 4Kids would've seen Disney's approach and decided to take after them and do the same thing.

He's also right about cultures preferring different kinds of music, for example I just cannot get into the Kikuchi soundtrack for Dragon Ball Z like at all, it just sounds so ridiculous and out of place that it takes me right out of the show and I find the Team Faulconer soundtrack much more fitting and enjoyable(and i'm sure die-hard DBZ fans will find that blasphemous and want to burn me at the stake for saying that but I don't care LOL). DBZ kind of did the same thing Pokemon did with re-using several queues multiple times to save money back when Ocean was doing the dubbing(though they had even tighter budget issues so they had a much smaller and less varied amount of cues compared to Pokemon)though once they moved everything in-house they were finally able to afford have a more varied replacement soundtrack.

Also I get what he's saying in regards to needing to make enough money to keep the dub going, while i'm sure some purists(AKA elitists) would've preferred the English dub never happened at all I don't subscribe to that notion and if continuing the dub meant needing to occasionally add/replace some music then I say it was the right call personally(though why it's STILL being done now on a much more extreme level in today's day and age where TCPI isn't facing the same cost/budget 4Kids was facing back then and with English dubs generally no longer doing replacement soundtracks in general is a real mystery)
 
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It was still largely done for them to gain residual checks. A shame the Japanese side of the other dubs didn't enforce them to keep SOME Japanese music at least ala the shopro/viz media way of dub music handling.
 
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It was still largely done for them to gain residual checks. A shame the Japanese side of the other dubs didn't enforce them to keep SOME Japanese music at least ala the shopro/viz media was of dub music handling.
4Kids actually kept most of the Japanese score, it wasn't until the TCPI era where they would start replacing ALL of the original music in some episodes.
 
While replacing silence does very much count, I was actually talking about swapping out one piece of music for another. Season 1, Episode 1 only kept two pieces of music. Episode 2 kept five. Episode 3 kept six. Etc. etc. The actual numbers vary from episode to episode but there are a significant number of episodes from 4Kids' run on the show where less than half the Japanese music is kept.

 
While replacing silence does very much count, I was actually talking about swapping out one piece of music for another. Season 1, Episode 1 only kept two pieces of music. Episode 2 kept five. Episode 3 kept six. Etc. etc. The actual numbers vary from episode to episode but there are a significant number of episodes from 4Kids' run on the show where less than half the Japanese music is kept.

I don't think it counts personally but I see your point, they did admittedly replace a lot of music at first but later on they kept quite a bit more of it. Whereas in the TCPI era they'd replace 3/4 of the music in every episode or more.
 
4Kids' run on the show was a bit of a roller coaster as far as music replacement goes. They were really terrible at first, then got better (but never great) around Season 2/3, and then started going downhill again by the time we really got to Johto. By Season 8 (their last year on the show) episodes consistently kept around 20% of the Japanese soundtrack, if even that.

TPCi's track record when it comes to replacement music is also unacceptably bad, of course, but let's not gaslight ourselves into believing these problems only just started a few years ago. Replacement music has been an issue with the English dub of Pokémon since literally Day One.
 
4Kids' run on the show was a bit of a roller coaster as far as music replacement goes. They were really terrible at first, then got better (but never great) around Season 2/3, and then started going downhill again by the time we really got to Johto. By Season 8 (their last year on the show) episodes consistently kept around 20% of the Japanese soundtrack, if even that.

TPCi's track record when it comes to replacement music is also unacceptably bad, of course, but let's not gaslight ourselves into believing these problems only just started a few years ago. Replacement music has been an issue with the English dub of Pokémon since literally Day One.
oh i'm not gaslighting myself into anything, i've been critical about how much TCPI has replaced since 2006. With 4Kids they had good enough replacement music that I honestly didn't notice and had to have it pointed out to me, but TCPI music usually stuck out like a sore thumb and absolutely did not fit in with the original music IMO.
 
And I feel exactly the same way about the 4Kids music Neither 4Kids' music nor TPCi's music mixes well with the Japanese original.

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
And I feel exactly the same way about the 4Kids music Neither 4Kids' music nor TPCi's music mixes well with the Japanese original.

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Fair enough, anyways looking forward to the comparison of "Get Along Little Pokemon"(the final episode featuring Nathan Price).
 
So even Digimon did this, but any reason Pokémon would replace names like Kya Koga even though it maintains a Japanese label?
 
4Kids' run on the show was a bit of a roller coaster as far as music replacement goes. They were really terrible at first, then got better (but never great) around Season 2/3, and then started going downhill again by the time we really got to Johto. By Season 8 (their last year on the show) episodes consistently kept around 20% of the Japanese soundtrack, if even that.

TPCi's track record when it comes to replacement music is also unacceptably bad, of course, but let's not gaslight ourselves into believing these problems only just started a few years ago. Replacement music has been an issue with the English dub of Pokémon since literally Day One.
Yeah the first three seasons kept about ~70% of the music across the board, only for that to dip tremendously at the start of season 4.

I fully agree with you that it should be 100% retained without any insertions to cover up silence, but man, looking at those Horizons episodes, 70% retention even with filler music is looking pretty good.

The allergy to silence honestly might be worse to me than the music being replaced at all. There was a stretch of TPCI episodes where they were still replacing way too much music (by which I mean "any of it," but really more than half), but allowing plenty of stretches of silence in the score which made it considerably more bearable. I don't know why when they hired Goldfarb they went back to wall-to-wall music that barely ever lets up, but it's far and away the worst part of the score. Goldfarb's actually written some nice pieces IMO but the quality of any of it gets massively diluted when he's expected to Mickey Mouse his way through the whole show.
 
Possibly, but I'm just curious why it is a decision made at all if the newer name isn't to make it American.

Well and on the anime side you have Otoshi from Bad to the Bone who's original name was Saizo.
Part of me wonders if they ever considered naming that guy Satoshi as an in-joke/easter egg.

There was a moment in the last season of Yugioh when Mana refers to her bird (nameless in the Japanese version) as Anzu (Tea's Japanese name), and I'll admit despite not caring at all for the 4Kids dub of that show, I geeked out a little when I heard it.
 
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