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Dogasu's Backpack Discussion

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Dogasu said:
Again, you're putting words in my mouth. Please respond to what I'm actually saying, not whatever it is you're imagining me saying.

And if me calling the dub "bad" is that distressing to you, then how about "unfaithful," or "heavily altered," or "overly localized." Are any of those terms less offensive to you?
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Uh I am. It's not "distressing"(now that's putting words in my mouth) i'm merely disagreeing with you on it being bad, that's all.

Those are more accurate terms(not to mention less flame-baity)so those would be preferable yes.
 
I'm not sure how me saying "bad" is any less "flame-baity" than you saying "good," but whatever.

In the future I'll make more of an effort to be sensitive to your feelings.
 
Dogasu said:
I'm not sure how me saying "bad" is any less "flame-baity" than you saying "good," but whatever.

In the future I'll make more of an effort to be sensitive to your feelings.
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I disagree on that but whatever.


If that last sentence isn't sarcasm then I appreciate it(sorry but the internet has trained me to be suspicious so I can't help but be skeptical towards certain nice-sounding posts).
 
If I may give my opinion. Generally, what good localization is in my point of view is keeping the feelings of the original to other countries and cultures, whilst being as faithful to the original as possible (at least 99% of the time it works). While I would be okay with a couple of rewrites as long as they still keep the feeling of the original version. In the case of this movie however, the theme was changed to Ash being the chosen one, which is totally different from the original. And there was a lot of dialogue that could safely be left as-is. The third movie was better with keeping the original theme than this movie did (only if they kept the original music). The fourth one did have 4Kids commission for additional scenes, and the fifth movie cut the beginning of the movie. The sixth movie to the eighth did keep the theming of the original thus being much better dubs than the earlier ones.

That though mostly covers the script because I am mostly saying good localization under the assumption the music is kept, and none of the scenes gets cut (unless it's problematic of course). I don't see any good dub replacing the soundtrack with their own (which thankfully 4Kids stopped doing starting with the fourth movie) because that would definitely give a different feeling from the original, even if the new music is good or not (I might make an exception if copyright is a factor to this, though it clearly isn't the case with this movie), nor is removing scenes like Oak's explanation and Tracey's science talk. The cropping I'm not counting since this was more on the distributer rather than 4Kids (and countries like Australia and New Zealand did keep the widescreen), though they still haven't fixed the blue tint for the fifth movie.

Voice acting on the other hand, works kinda differently. Two ways I am good with is either keeping the original feeling, or have some alterations while still being believable and convincing. The type of voice a character is given is one thing as well. Does the voice fit the character? Is it believable? And most important of all, how good is the performance? Granted, those are very subjective at the end of the day. Keeping the feeling of the original is generally safer, but if you know what you're doing you can potentially get more mileage to the performance than even the original VAs. There are a lot of games I played with good English voice acting like the Persona games, the Great Ace Attorney, FFVII Rebirth, and many more. The JoJo anime dub I also hold to very high standards as well, especially Part 3 onwards where they stopped doing accents (the first two parts, some may have good British accents like Joseph and Dio, I can't say the same with Jonathan). My favorite performance in the dub was the late Billy Kametz as Josuke from Part 4.

On the Pokémon side of things, I remember for example the episode where Bayleef runs away from Ash, I got a different feeling from the original because of voice acting. I did look at both the scenes where Ash told Bayleef off and Veronica Taylor definitely made Ash sound slightly meaner and harsher than Rica Matsumoto did with Satoshi. The dialogue, I think in the original, it was something like "Don't come near me! Listen to me, don't ever go physical with me!" in a telling off tone whereas the dub it was "No more tackling Bayleef! Now get away from me and stay away from me!" in a much more harsher tone. Original Japanese is 来るなったら！いいか絶対に体当たりするんじゃないぞ！if that helps. This one is subjective, sure, but it felt different in a way.

This one is rather long, so I apologize if I explained myself too confusingly.
 
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Recently, I have watched Episode 169, the episode where Takeshi/Brock gives Rokon/Vulpix back to Yuki/Suzie. One of the shots (just after Okorizaru/Primeape appears) has Jynx appear. In the dub, the shot of Jynx was trimmed down so that she doesn't appear (though you can still see her left hand, which wasn't recolored). I am surprised Bulbapedia didn't list the edit (though I'm working on adding it). Is it possible for you to add this to the Rougela in animation page?

EDIT: The episode page has been updated with the screenshot: EP169
 
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JyuRaposa said:
Recently, I have watched Episode 169, the episode where Takeshi/Brock gives Rokon/Vulpix back to Yuki/Suzie. One of the shots (just after Okorizaru/Primeape appears) has Jynx appear. In the dub, the shot of Jynx was trimmed down so that she doesn't appear (though you can still see her left hand, which wasn't recolored). I am surprised Bulbapedia didn't list the edit (though I'm working on adding it). Is it possible for you to add this to the Rougela in animation page?

EDIT: The episode page has been updated with the screenshot: EP169
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Thank you, that episode completely slipped my mind! I've updated the site with this information:

 
Dogasu said:
Thank you, that episode completely slipped my mind! I've updated the site with this information:

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Thank you so much! It's just me and a friend of mine are watching the Johto fansubs and we happened to find the scene of Rougela, and noticing it wasn't documented anywhere, I had to mention it.
 
JyuRaposa said:
Thank you so much! It's just me and a friend of mine are watching the Johto fansubs and we happened to find the scene of Rougela, and noticing it wasn't documented anywhere, I had to mention it.
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Nice find! I'm still annoyed at how overly sensitive 4Kids were (and still are in the case of TCPi) regarding Jinx. Wish they'd thought of coloring her purple sooner so the Ice Cave episode would not have had to have been banned. I remember watching Johto as a kid and wondering why the hell the Ice Cave was skipped over. I looked it up online only to find out it was yet another banned episode, can't tell you how let down I was by that.
 
DawnFirestorm said:
Nice find! I'm still annoyed at how overly sensitive 4Kids were (and still are in the case of TCPi) regarding Jinx. Wish they'd thought of coloring her purple sooner so the Ice Cave episode would not have had to have been banned. I remember watching Johto as a kid and wondering why the hell the Ice Cave was skipped over. I looked it up online only to find out it was yet another banned episode, can't tell you how let down I was by that.
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I think in theory, 4Kids could dub the episode by editing Jynx to be purple, but I can imagine that would cost them a lot of money and labor to be able to do this, especially back in early-2003 when the episode would've aired. Though I did wish the animators got the memo before AG as well. It really sucks seeing an episode get banned, but it is what it is.
 
It's likely the technology just wasn't where it needed to be yet in order to make a decent looking edit. Remember, Japan didn't even try recoloring its first hand painted Rougela episode until 2012; the idea of 4Kids being able to do the same thing, only nine years earlier, seems a bit unlikely.
 
Dogasu said:
It's likely the technology just wasn't where it needed to be yet in order to make a decent looking edit. Remember, Japan didn't even try recoloring its first hand painted Rougela episode until 2012; the idea of 4Kids being able to do the same thing, only nine years earlier, seems a bit unlikely.
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"Japan didn't even try to" You can just say OLM? They're the studio who works on it :ROFLMAO:
 
Dogasu, I don't know if you still report on these types of dubbing blunders but in the Episode 033 dub, Matadogasu's voice can still be heard in what I'm sure is the only time Weezing "talks" in the entirety of the (dubbed) episode.

I can't remember the exact scene because it has been quite a long time since I've watched that episode at all, but there were two specific moments where it was featured on screen. One in which it was doing whatever attack causes smog to come from its mouth(s), yet weirdly said nothing at all (not sure if this was also true in the original). The only scene where it does speak, it lets out a long groan in what is clearly not its usual Weezing voice (it actually sounds like it's doing Psyduck's "Psyyyy" but I know it isn't lol). I remember one of the only reasons I caught it in the first place —the first being that Matadogasu/Weezing was one of my favorite Pokémon back then— was after learning from another of your episode comparisons at that time (early 00s) about how it has two voices in the Japanese version, something that definitely got my attention right away since Weezing has the same vocal stacked twice. I almost want to say I tried to notify you back then but who even knows anymore? lol

Not a huge deal by any means. It's just something I thought was kinda neat. I know there was another First Gen episode where Squirtle slipped out a "zen ~ zenii!", and possibly another where Koduck's original voice slipped through the cracks?

Also RIP Rachael Lillis
 
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Great comparison today! The thought of the Poliwag to Poliwrath connection didn't even occur to me. Though I keep shaking my head whenever 4Kids makes mistakes like misidentifying Pokémon moves.

I know with Season 3, starting next episode, I think 4Kids started cracking down on violence edits because I have noticed more impact stars in the dub in Season 3 compared to previous seasons.
 
JyuRaposa said:
Great comparison today! The thought of the Poliwag to Poliwrath connection didn't even occur to me. Though I keep shaking my head whenever 4Kids makes mistakes like misidentifying Pokémon moves.

I know with Season 3, starting next episode, I think 4Kids started cracking down on violence edits because I have noticed more impact stars in the dub in Season 3 compared to previous seasons.
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And would continue with AG if I'm not mistaken.
 
Poke Trey said:
And would continue with AG if I'm not mistaken.
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Yep. I remember they kept calling Sleep Powder as Stun Spore in AG037 for example. Same with the violence edits, which to be fair a few of them are KidsWB edits (EP245, EP247, AG007, AG024, AG050, and a few others had these edits undone on the most recent DVD releases and some digital platforms)
 
Yeah the episode itself was still a nice viewing on it's own. While Dawn's similar issue with Piloswine/Mamoswine wasn't perfect, it arguably helps having an episode for example (A Breed Stampede) where she tried to rekindle their bond.
 
Yeah, the OI deserves a little more respect than it gets. Heck, it's about on par with the fillers in the regions anyway.
At least back then they tried to make things interesting & unique than our heroes helping a loser COTD or POTD like they didn't have anything better to do.
 

One case where there was genuine profanity in the original Japanese version while others are debunked, including Ash doing his take on an Arnold Schwarzenegger bit from Predator.:p
 
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