Felony Charges for Using Password Taped to Computer

[Trip]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/internet/08/09/kutztown.hackers.ap/index.html

http://www.cutusabreak.org/

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/20/1423242&from=rss

This is entirely uncalled for. The IT staff there proved they have no idea what they were doing when they TAPED THE PASSWORD TO THE COMPUTER. Then, once they fixed it, the kids continued to hack at the computers. Apparently, the parents were not involved until charges were filed and the school didn't want to do the correct thing and TAKE THE COMPUTERS AWAY because it would have been too difficult on the school to teach without it.

What are your thoughts?

- Trip

 

[Mozz]

At least one student viewed pornography. Some students also turned off the remote monitoring function and turned the tables on their elders-- using it to view administrators' own computer screens.

The administrative password on some laptops was subsequently changed, but some students got hold of that one, too, and decrypted it with a password-cracking program they found on the Internet.

== Fuck those kids. They're criminals.

 

[Trip]

When someone does that in my school (and they've done it) they get their computer privaleges removed for like a month. They should have done it here instead of letting it escalate into FELONY CHARGES.

I could see punishment, but felony charges? They didn't even damage anything. It takes almost no time to reimage a computer.

- Trip

 

[Mozz]

What if the computers were required for classes? I'd imagine if everyone had computers in the school, assignments must include computer work, so they couldn't take them away from them totally.

 

[The Big Al]

I'm going to have to go with Mozz here. They broke the law, not just the rules. It's up to a jury to decide the seriousness of their actions.

 

[Trip]

What if the computers were required for classes? I'd imagine if everyone had computers in the school, assignments must include computer work, so they couldn't take them away from them totally.

So what if they're required for class? They could and should take it away from them if they abuse it. And if they can't do the work, hey, that's their problem. Maybe next time they won't abuse the computers.

Hey, I had a teacher who sent out a disruptive classmate for a whole lesson. Didn't give him notes or anything. Got a very VERY low grade on the test. All of a sudden, he wasn't disruptive anymore.

- Trip

 

[Mozz]

If they keep fucking up, they get harsher penalties. The school doesn't have to take away the toy that they're fucking with. As long as the kids know that they're breaking the rules, the school can keep pounding away with penalties.

If you're in gym class and you hit a kid, you're suspended. They don't have to take you out of gym class, even if you keep hitting kids (and keep getting harsher penalties).

 

[Geodude]

It's the school's fault, not the kids. If they're gonna bring in a teaching tool, they need to be properly trained to use that tool, or at least apply some common sense.

 

[Eevee]

I can't really say how much I'm with the kids without knowing the conditions of the laptop lending.

I must say, though, that "they break the law" doesn't automatically translate to "they did something wrong". oh man, someone lent them laptops and they used them! gosh am I ever surprised. just look at all that damage they caused, like.. talking.. to each other.. and looking at porn, which as we all know will give you hives on your retinas. (retinae?)

but hey I guess using the password written on the computer is worthy of equivalent punishment as rape or murder.

I like this response from one of the /. comments: "If these "hackers" were my kids, I wouldn't punish them, but I would take them aside and explain that the mundanes are terrified of them, and ask them to hide their brains when in such company. I'd tell 'em not to worry, the cream always rises to the top..."

 

[Mozz]

Yeah, learn parenting skills from 18 year old *nix nerds sitting in their basement.

I have no problem with the part where they circumvent the porn blocking. Those filters go far beyond what should be blocked.

I have a problem with:

1) Viewing pornography on a school computer
2) Manipulating existing programs to illegally spy on administrators' computers
3) "Acquire" the new password via hacking

 

[Trip]

Exactly, Mozz, if the kid abuses his ability to be in gym class, he is suspended, aka, HE HAS THE CLASS TAKEN AWAY FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. They don't just let him keep hitting kids over and over until they're pressing criminal charges. Because hopefully, by being suspended and missing that school work (which is no different in this case) is supposed to make him learn that his grade will suffer if he does these things.

All they're doing to the kids is making them paranoid that people are out to get them. If the kids were abusing the computers so badly, why weren't they suspended? Why weren't parents notified of anything until charges were filed? There are so many OTHER things that could have been done here that it doesn't make any sense.

- Trip

 

[Virility]

I think that they're just wasting time and money taking them to court. Like trip said, they should have just taken the laptops away for a bit of time. Back in middle school, they'd go and visit rotten.com, the teachers knew, but trusted them not to go, ofcourse they went, broke the policy, and we werent allowed to use that computer for some time.

Again, like trip said, a forewarning would have been nice. I mean, usually when somethings there(the password in this case) you'll use it. I mean, it's obviously there for a reason, be it right or wrong. Sure, they KNEW it was wrong, but did anybody TELL them? I mean, thats the exact same reason why they put DO NOT EAT on Silica Gel packets, or DO NOT DRINK on bleach. you KNOW its harmful, but it doesnt say it, so you could be the type of person that'll say 'oh, its a liquid, and liquids are drinkable, and it doesnt say dont drink it, if i get sick, i could sue and be rich.' Ofcourse thats morally wrong.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

Actually, these put those things on packaging to prevent lawsuits from idiots who don't know better. If you KNOW something's wrong, you shouldn't have to be TOLD it's wrong. It's called "common sense".

It points out that students and parents were required to sign a code of conduct and acceptable use policy, which contained warnings of legal action.

That's what it all comes down to. They were warned. I think expulsion SHOULD have been sought first, but it's not like they arbitrarily sought felony charges. Parents had to have signed this, so at the first sign of trouble, they should have told their kids to stop.

It sickens me when I see people who blatantly break rules asking for help. No one made these kids break the law. When I was in high school I had access to a teacher's password. I NEVER ONCE misused it. It's called RESPECT. If these kids don't know what that is, then maybe this case will teach it to them.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

 

[evkl]

The school dug their own grave, really, and then buried other people in it.

 

[Trip]

Actually, these put those things on packaging to prevent lawsuits from idiots who don't know better. If you KNOW something's wrong, you shouldn't have to be TOLD it's wrong. It's called "common sense".

True, but when you're speeding and you know it's wrong and you get pulled over, you don't expect to get the electric chair either.

That's what it all comes down to. They were warned. I think expulsion SHOULD have been sought first, but it's not like they arbitrarily sought felony charges. Parents had to have signed this, so at the first sign of trouble, they should have told their kids to stop.

From what I can ascertain from the articles I've read, the parents were not involved until charges were pressed. The parents should have been notified at the first offense, not when they're being charged with felonies.

It sickens me when I see people who blatantly break rules asking for help. No one made these kids break the law. When I was in high school I had access to a teacher's password. I NEVER ONCE misused it. It's called RESPECT. If these kids don't know what that is, then maybe this case will teach it to them.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

No one's arguing that they did no wrong or that they shouldn't be punished here. What IS being said is that felony charges are just stupid in this case. Expulsion should have been considered loooooong before criminal charges. And taking away the computers before that.

- Trip

 

[GrnMarvl14]

True, but when you're speeding and you know it's wrong and you get pulled over, you don't expect to get the electric chair either.

True, but if your speeding results in the deaths of others...

Had a fairly big trial here recently that centered around a guy who was speeding, and couldn't stop in time. Slammed into the car in front of him (it was stopped at a stop sign). Car went into traffic. Both people in the car were killed.

From what I can ascertain from the articles I've read, the parents were not involved until charges were pressed. The parents should have been notified at the first offense, not when they're being charged with felonies.

I completely agree.

[/QUOTE]No one's arguing that they did no wrong or that they shouldn't be punished here. What IS being said is that felony charges are just stupid in this case. Expulsion should have been considered loooooong before criminal charges. And taking away the computers before that.

No one on THIS BOARD maybe, but a number of people involved seem to feel they did no wrong. This will be a life lesson for them, hopefully.

Yeah, I completely agree that expulsion SHOULD have come first. And taking away the computers MIGHT have solved the problem (although I don't know enough about how these types of systems work to be able to say that it would have definitely solved it). But these kids made a bad decision. And obviously they CONTINUED to make bad decisions. It's time to say "enough's enough" and do something serious. If we can get these little malicious hackers early enough, maybe we can cut down on the number of destructive viruses and sites hacked and destroyed.

 

[Trip]

True, but if your speeding results in the deaths of others...

Had a fairly big trial here recently that centered around a guy who was speeding, and couldn't stop in time. Slammed into the car in front of him (it was stopped at a stop sign). Car went into traffic. Both people in the car were killed.

In our analogy, that would equate to them deleting and/or altering info. Which they didn't do. When you get pulled over for speeding, you don't get charged with manslaughter because you COULD have hurt someone. You get a fine.

No one on THIS BOARD maybe, but a number of people involved seem to feel they did no wrong. This will be a life lesson for them, hopefully.

I disagree with people who say they did no wrong. I know they did wrong.

Yeah, I completely agree that expulsion SHOULD have come first. And taking away the computers MIGHT have solved the problem (although I don't know enough about how these types of systems work to be able to say that it would have definitely solved it). But these kids made a bad decision. And obviously they CONTINUED to make bad decisions. It's time to say "enough's enough" and do something serious. If we can get these little malicious hackers early enough, maybe we can cut down on the number of destructive viruses and sites hacked and destroyed.

Whoa, hold the phone, malicious? Perhaps you and I have a different definition of the word "malicious." If what they did is malicious, then what do you call phishing? DDoS attacks? Data theft? Those activities are malicious. Bypassing filtering software and using the admin password is not malicious. Heck, I do both of those. Neither is "malicious." I bypass the filter because it has sites like ABCNews blocked. I use the admin password so I can install the anti-spyware software (which interestingly can't be installed in a limited account, while the spyware has no problem). Yet would you define me as a "cracker" (hackers are generally good people, crackers are bad people who do hacker things) for such things?

I doubt people like these would be the ones writing viruses and hacking sites... well, at least, until they were charged with felony charges. Now they're probably pissed off at the world and very well might do that.

- Trip

 

[Mozz]

Hacking the new password = malicious

 

[GrnMarvl14]

In our analogy, that would equate to them deleting and/or altering info. Which they didn't do. When you get pulled over for speeding, you don't get charged with manslaughter because you COULD have hurt someone. You get a fine.

Yeah, and that's why they probably AREN'T being taken to the full extent.

Whoa, hold the phone, malicious? Perhaps you and I have a different definition of the word "malicious." If what they did is malicious, then what do you call phishing? DDoS attacks? Data theft? Those activities are malicious. Bypassing filtering software and using the admin password is not malicious.

I call those acts "cyber-terrorism." Because it can result in more than just damage to a computer. What these kids is merely malicious.

Yet would you define me as a "cracker" (hackers are generally good people, crackers are bad people who do hacker things) for such things?

No, I wouldn't. But did these kids do all this just to visit ABCnews.com or install spyware blocking software?

I doubt people like these would be the ones writing viruses and hacking sites... well, at least, until they were charged with felony charges. Now they're probably pissed off at the world and very well might do that.

Which is why they should have been expelled first.

 

[raekuul]

I see hacking as a federal crime. The students in question knew what they were doing, so it can be considered "hacking". Did they change the password? No, but they used a skillful combination of spyware and Code-Breaking programs to get the new password.

My question is this: Why couldn't the local network admin have just kept a record of the passwords on a clipboard in a locked drawer in his office? I'm not condoning what they did- I'm just mad at the School Administrators for allowing this atrocity to happen.

If the password had not been on the back of the computers to begin with, this would have been avoided.