Gen 1 Pokemon -- OU

[ShinyFlareon]

Just a fun thing I thought I might like to try out. I love gen 1 pokemon, so I thought it would be interesting to make a team of them and see if it would be useful competitively. The only condition is that they be pokemon available in Gen 1 -- no future evolutions allowed. I'll probably end up making a few such teams -- there are a LOT of Gen 1 pokemon I'd love to use again. This is the OU version.

Changes in bold because I don't know how to change the color of my font.

Areodactyl@Focus Sash/Heat Rock
Jolly nature
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-- Taunt
-- Stealth Rock
-- Rock Slide
-- Ice Fang

Taunt stops the other team from setting up, provided they don't outspeed me, and Stealth Rock lets me get some setup of my own done. Rock Slide and Ice Fang for coverage.

Alakazam@Choice Specs
Timid nature
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
-- Psychic
-- Signal Beam
-- Focus Blast
-- Trick/Hidden Power Fire

A fairly obvious choice for a Gen 1 only team, with a rather standard Trick/Specs set. I'd debated about putting Gengar in the role of special monster of this team, but I honestly like Alakazam better. I'm having a really hard time deciding between Trick and HP Fire, however -- the thought of Scizor isn't very comforting, though it could probably hit me with Bullet Punch before I could do anything about it.

Dragonite@Choice Band/Expert Belt
Lonely nature
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-- Outrage
-- Earthquake
-- Fire Punch
-- Ice Punch/Dragon Dance

Dragonite has to be one of my favorite pokemon in the game. Since I've got Areodactyl covering Aqua Tail, Ice Punch allows me to run an ice-type move on Dragonite. Dragon Dance, on the other hand, could come in quite handy if I predict right. Dragon/Ground/Fire is a combo I often see as unresisted, and Dragonite is certainly capable of using it -- it also lends me the benefit of using an Expert Belt as a possible item, especially if I choose Dragon Dance over Ice Punch, since I think people are probably going to expect Dragonite to have a Choice item. I might switch to a Scarf or mixed set, depending on how this works out.

Weezing@Black Sludge
Bold nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def /4 Sp. Atk
-- Thunderbolt
-- Fire Blast
-- Will-O-Wisp
-- Pain Split

My answer to Lucario. I'll put more EVs in Sp. Atk if I find that Fire Blast isn't doing enough damage, but it should -- I'll definitely be putting more in if the accuracy gets to be a problem, though, and switch to Flamethrower. Thunderbolt is mainly for Gyarados and for the sake of having something besides Zapdos running an Electric-type attack. WoW annoys Lucario too, and Pain Split lets me heal up.

Zapdos@Leftovers
Bold nature
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
-- Roost
-- Thunderbolt
-- Heat Wave
-- Hidden Power Grass

My physical wall. Hidden Power Grass is a must, now that Jolteon's not on my team anymore. Fairly standard, I'm afraid.

Snorlax@Leftovers
Sassy nature
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 244 HP / 28 Def / 236 SpD
-- Rest
-- Sleep Talk
-- Body Slam
-- Earthquake

Special wall, making full use of Snorlax's 'signature' move, Rest. I'm apparently not being very creative today, unfortunately -_-


Well, that's it for the first part. Let me know if there's something I've missed -- feedback is welcome!

 

[Jimiinthesky]

the only thing i'd say is not to bother with sunny day on aerodactyl, like you say, double edge/aqua tail is only resisted fully by empoleon, plus hippowdon and tyranitar enduce sandstorm,which doesnt even harm aerodactyl

im not sure how ice beam will work on dragonite, with no ev's what so ever on spA, but it could be useful, like you say, for pshyical walls. if it doesnt work out i'd say dragon dance, use one on the switch after you bring dragonite in on somthing that doesnt like it, then outrage away half their team, worked soo many times for me

other than that great looking team i like the gen 1 theme, i love those pokemon haha

 

[DCM]

It's pretty good. Just a quick glance though, it looks heracross/scizor weak.

 

[Wiilio]

Aerodactyl needs its STAB Rock Slide/Stone Edge. If it's a lead, what common leads are you hoping to hit hard with Normal/Water? Rock/Ground or Rock/Ice offers more super-effective coverage (105 Atk isn't exactly what you'd call spectacular). Dragonite's better off with Ice Punch I'd think, although you do hit Hippowdon (not commonly seen) and Gliscor harder. The Dragons you'll face will be hit harder by Outrage. Jolteon's better off Baton Passing, but if you must use a set like that one, use a Life Orb.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

@Jim: Sandstorm DOES affect the rest of my pokemon, however. That's the point of Sunny Day -- to get rid of the weather for the rest of my team. To Dragonite, I'd forgotten it learned Ice Punch, which is why I gave it Ice Beam. That or Dragon Dance will replace it.

@DCM: I'd noticed that too...the only thing I have to counter either is Dragonite's Fire Punch and POSSIBLY Alakazam's HP Fire. But as I said above, Scizor could easily Bullet Punch Alakazam. Any suggestions?

@Wiil: Well, my goal with the Normal/Water combo wasn't necessarily to hit things HARD, but just get something in. Double-Edge is awesome when you don't have recoil -- I'll try Rock Slide and Ice Fang, though -- that'll free up space on Dragonite for Dragon Dance or Ice Punch. As for Jolteon...I desperately need something on this team with an electric-type move, I don't know how I overlooked that. It being the only thing with an electric move on the team (something I'm looking into options to fix), I need it to not be constantly switching in and out, especially since it's defenses aren't stellar. That's why I picked Expert Belt over Life Orb -- Jolteon feels to fragile to me to really like the recoil.

 

[Wiilio]

...a lot of fragile things use Life Orb. They hit hard and can't take hits, so the recoil's nothing because they'll die pretty quick anyway. Why do you think Infernape uses it? Lucario? Jolteon can still have its Electric move with a Baton Pass set... Substitute/Baton Pass/Thunderbolt/HP Grass or Ice. When you're attacking, you don't just "get something in", especially with something like Aerodactyl that has enough power and good enough type coverage to take things down. When you are talking about "getting something in" as far as attack moves, the only thing I can think of using that phrase for is U-Turn; you switch out while "getting something in".

 

[ShinyFlareon]

To be perfectly honest, using a Life Orb has always sort of turned me off. That doesn't mean I won't use it -- it just means that I'll be looking at other options before choosing it. And it would seem to me that Jolteon's Substitutes would be fairly frail. Do I just predict something setting up, put up a Substitute, and then (assuming I outspeed it), Baton Pass? Then what good does the Substitute do if my pokemon can't set up behind it?

I will try Rock Slide and Ice Fang on Areodactyl.

 

[Wiilio]

Well it's either that or Jolteon's passing a pinch berry boost and it's Subbing down to activation. If it gets lucky and keeps its Sub, that's even better. Then it can either pass the Substitute or attack, wait for it to be broken, and keep Subbing.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Ah, all right -- that makes a lot more sense. I'll go edit my post now.

 

[Wiilio]

You'll want to take Liechi off of that list for Jolteon since it doesn't really benefit it in any way. Salac Berry is used most often because it can be passed to anything, but Petaya could be interesting.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

The berry depends on what I think I'll need to pass a boost to, which is why Liechi is there -- if I start thinking Dragonite might need a boost.

 

[Wiilio]

Usually you want the pinch berry to not only benefit what you're passing to, but also what's passing it... whatever floats your boat.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

^ The berry choice is probably ultimately going to come down to experimentation with the team, and seeing what I'm going to be needing. Thank you for all your advice -- it was excellent, as always.

I still have no reliable answers to Scizor or Heracross besides Zapdos' Heat Wave and Dragonite's Fire Punch, though, and that's really what's starting to worry me a bit. Lucario and Heatran could be a bit of a pain too, now that I think about it. So it seems like I'm basically having a problem with Steel-types. Would a Resttalk No Guard Machamp work on this team, possibly in place of Snorlax?

 

[Wiilio]

Well Zapdos is a good Scizor counter, and it's good for Heracross too as long as its defensively oriented (Which yours is) in case of Stone Edge. Your only hope for Lucario on this team is Alakazam, and that's not very reliable... Specs Focus Blast will definitely take it out, but its accuracy isn't good. Snorlax can take Heatran (Thick Fat gives it a Fire resistance); just watch for Explosion. For your Steels... let's take a closer look shall we?

Bronzong- Pretty sure Zapdos can handle it. Dragonite with Fire Punch can take it, and if Alakazam has HP Fire that'll put a pretty big dent in it too.
Empoleon- Snorlax can handle this, although it will probably have a problem with the SubPetaya set since it will be much slower, meaning that it will get down to its Petaya boost. Surf probably won't OHKO though.
Forretress- Zapdos, Alakazam.
Heatran- Snorlax.
Jirachi- Snorlax for special variants, Zapdos for physical.
Lucario- Zapdos can hopefully take a SD Ice Punch, but I doubt it can take a Stone Edge. Alakazam can outspeed but it can't switch in and Focus Blast isn't a surefire way to ensure that Lucario dies. Snorlax can probably take an Aura Sphere and OHKO with Earthquake but I doubt it can take two Specs Aura Spheres. Maybe you can teach Aerodactyl Earthquake over Ice Fang, switch it in on something like Extremespeed or Crunch (Or Dragon Pulse or Shadow Ball)?
Magnezone- Snorlax takes it fine. Zapdos probably can too.
Metagross- Zapdos can probably handle it without Ice Punch (And even then you can Roost off damage), and Dragonite can switch in on an Earthquake and throw its on Earthquake at it (Only do this if it's Choice Banded; even then it probably won't OHKO unless it's taken damage already)
Scizor- Best bet is Zapdos. Don't see a problem.
Skarmory- Zapdos

So yeah, Lucario's a problem. Aerodactyl's your best bet at "countering" it. SD Luke sweeps this team unless Alakazam hits it with Focus Blast; even then, SD ExtremeSpeed will probably OHKO. When looking for a counter for Lucario, try getting one for Metagross too. Swampert perhaps?

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Gen 1 pokemon only, remember? Hm...yeah, Lucario's a definite problem. My best bet to switch into it is Snorlax, and being weak to Fighting isn't good -- Areodactyl's way to fragile to switch in unless I can get it in on a Choice Band Earthquake, but since Swords Dance Lucarios are the biggest problem...could I try a Wide Lens on Alakazam? I know I'd be losing a lot of power, but since I'm pretty dependent on Focus Blast hitting in order to keep my team from being swept, it might be worth it.

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

I would try to find another way to counter Lucario, as Alakazam is easily 2HKOd by 252 Atk neutral Lucario's Extremespeed with no boost, making it unusable as a counter. If Lucario has pulled off a SD then it's a OHKO, removing Alakazam's ability to even revenge-kill. Alakazam is not going to be taking out Lucario for you.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Okay, to solve my Lucario problem, I have a proposition: Weezing. It resists Fighting, which is good, and is fairly physically bulky. Plus, it has access to Rest and Sleep Talk, as well as Fire Blast and/or Flamethrower. While it probably won't be KO'ing many Lucario, it can at least wear them down. The problem is, I'm not sure where it would go on the team I have set up. At present, Dragonite and his Fire Punch is my best weapon, and Zapdos' Heat Wave second, and even they fall to a Stone Edge.

 

[Cheesus Is Lord]

I have used Weezing in OU before and he is pretty kickass. With Thunderbolt as well you can use him as another option against Gyarados as well. Plus, Will-O-Wisp can be used to cripple Lucario if you think you can't take him out. I tend to run Pain Split instead of Restalk just so that I could use the other moves.

Ah yes, and Flamethrower with no investment is a guaranteed 2HKO on 6 HP/0 SpD Lucario, even if it is carrying Leftovers.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

So, perhaps a set like this?

Weezing@leftovers
Bold nature
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Sp. Atk
-- Thunderbolt
-- Fire Blast
-- Will-O-Wisp
-- Pain Split

The EVs might need some adjustment, but that's the basic outline. However, I still don't know what I would put this in over -- Snorlax or Zapdos. Putting it over Snorlax leaves me without a special wall of any sort, but Zapdos has some very key resistances and things to wall that I don't think I can afford to be without. Opinions?

 

[Wiilio]

WEEZING! WHY did I not think about that before? Weezing counters pretty much every Fighting-type there is. I bred one recently and it does excellently. Go ahead and use Black Sludge on it just in case something wants to come in and get Tricky. That moveset is fine. Fire Blast should OHKO Lucario. Will-o-Wisp can knock it down pretty hard too.

I'd say put it over Jolteon. Jolteon's interesting but isn't required. Weezing and Zapdos have the Electric attacks you need.

It's pretty awesome that 2/3 of this team is immune to Earthquake