Gender options

[Chevrine]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm VERY pleased and thankful that Bulbapedia is trying to be open and accepting of people other than cis males and cis females!

The execution is just...a little weird, is all.

I'm a returning user, haven't been here really in a while, and I went to update my profile.

To my delight, there are options other than Male, Female, and 'Prefer not to say'.

To my confusion, the other options are 'transgender' and 'genderless'.

Transgender is not a specific gender identity. It is the opposite of cisgender. Generally speaking, trans women are women, full stop, trans men are men, full stop, and nonbinary people, be they agender, genderfluid, bigender, etc, are also generally trans (although some may choose not to identify as such. There are exceptions to everything, bear in mind).

Listing 'transgender' as its own gender, in my opinion, is a way to other trans women and men from their genders while also lumping in everyone else under that broad umbrella and further othering them.

A better list would omit transgender, and add 'neutral', 'other', and...the list would vary, depending on the person you asked. Some people might still prefer to use transgender, to be honest.

Either way, it's a great sign that that attempt was made, but it's by no means sufficient.

I am speaking as a nonbinary trans person, by the way, and would greatly appreciate no cis person trying to trump my position in this discussion. Thank you!

Hope this can be fixed, and I'd love if other trans people could pop in and contribute what they'd like to see on the list! <3

(also, super sorry if such a thread as this exists--the onsite search is broken for me, and I did a site-specific Google search before posting as well!)

 

[Chevrine]

I've come back to the forum because I got an email notification about a PM sent to me asking if I am 'a boy or a girl'.

I am neither, and that's relevant to this discussion, which has apparently gone unnoticed for nearly two months now.

That said, terribly sorry, but I'm bumping this. Please notice it. I don't write stuff like this because I like to read my own writing.

Thanks!

 

[Araragi-hakase]

Hi, I apologize for not seeing this sooner - but I (along with other staff) were not quite sure how to respond to it. I do not mean that in a disrespectful way at all - I understand that gender identity is a very sensitive subject for many people.

If someone is transgender and they want to identify as female/male, they can choose that option without choosing transgender at all if they don't want to. The same goes for the others - the Porygon is meant to represent everything inbetween. I do understand that there are many, many different terms that individuals use to identify their gender to themselves and others, and why this wording may be more appropriate. Thank you for pointing it out.
@Archaic;

 

[TerraTF]

Since I not a mod I feel I can put it in a more blunt way and hope that it won't be taken wrongly.

First off there are too many gender options. There should be 3, much like a job application. Male, female, and prefer not to identify.

You choose "Male" if you feel that you are a male or if you have balls between your legs and are a male.

You choose "Female" if you feel that you are a female or don't have balls between your legs and are a female.

If don't don't identify as either, choose "Prefer not to Identify".

Gender is for scientific purposed. Plus you're online. Who cares if you chose prefer not to identify. I don't care what gender anyone is online I just assume they are all male unless they say they're female.

 

[Bikini Miltank]

Since I not a mod I feel I can put it in a more blunt way and hope that it won't be taken wrongly.

First off there are too many gender options. There should be 3, much like a job application. Male, female, and prefer not to identify.

You choose "Male" if you feel that you are a male or if you have balls between your legs and are a male.

You choose "Female" if you feel that you are a female or don't have balls between your legs and are a female.

If don't don't identify as either, choose "Prefer not to Identify".

Gender is for scientific purposed. Plus you're online. Who cares if you chose prefer not to identify. I don't care what gender anyone is online I just assume they are all male unless they say they're female.

No.

There is so much wrong here, it's hard to know where to begin.

Who are you to say there are too many gender options? They were added based on user feedback. Every one of the options we have is used by someone, which means that someone finds it the most appropriate way of describing their identity. It's not for you to say that anyone who doesn't fall into the category of male or female should be tossed in some big basket marked "other".

How is gender "for scientific purposes"? Are we conducting a study here that I didn't know about? We let users display their gender because it's a component of their identity. It is for the very opposite of scientific purposes. You may not care what people choose to identify as, but other people sure as hell do. Feel free to just assume everyone's male - though I can guarantee that kind of casual unexamined sexism will backfire sooner or later - but do not ever come on here and tell people that their gender identity isn't important and shouldn't be taken into consideration.

And I am a bloody mod, and that's the way it is.

 

[TerraTF]

Who are you to say there are too many gender options? They were added based on user feedback. Every one of the options we have is used by someone, which means that someone finds it the most appropriate way of describing their identity. It's not for you to say that anyone who doesn't fall into the category of male or female should be tossed in some big basket marked "other".

Who am I to say there's not too many? If the gender options were added "based on user feedback", as you put it, how can there not be user feedback saying there is too many?

How is gender "for scientific purposes"? Are we conducting a study here that I didn't know about? We let users display their gender because it's a component of their identity. It is for the very opposite of scientific purposes. You may not care what people choose to identify as, but other people sure as hell do. Feel free to just assume everyone's male - though I can guarantee that kind of casual unexamined sexism will backfire sooner or later - but do not ever come on here and tell people that their gender identity isn't important and shouldn't be taken into consideration.

How is gender not for scientific purposes? Maybe for when you're young and they don't fuck up checking a males uterus. Maybe for when they go into the emergency room and not give a female a vasectomy. There are gender specific drugs and procedures for which the gender needs to be known. Doctors don't say "oh its a boy" or "oh its a girl" for their fucking health. They say it so that they know that the child will receive proper health care.

I didn't make my post to be bigoted in any sense whatsoever. I'm fine with the whole idea of "Gender Identity", I just feel that its the next big thing for people to shove in someone else's face. Hell in 10 years we'll see a show on MTV about someone faking their gender much like how there's a show on MTV now about someone faking their sexuality. Gender identity is just some made up bullshit for people to complain about.

And no. I'm not a cis male. I'm a male. When I was born the doctor didn't say "oh its a cis boy". I'm a fucking male and I'm proud of it. If someone feels they are female and are proud of it then they say they're female and not add any extra bullshit like Trans- or what-the-fuck-ever else in front of it.

 

[The Outrage]

Who am I to say there's not too many? If the gender options were added "based on user feedback", as you put it, how can there not be user feedback saying there is too many?

Because saying there's "too many" when your identified gender is already an option is the same as denying another person's ability to identify. Also you're not the one in charge of programming the forums, that's why you can't say if there's too many options--you don't have to do anything to implement it.

How is gender not for scientific purposes? Maybe for when you're young and they don't fuck up checking a males uterus. Maybe for when they go into the emergency room and not give a female a vasectomy. There are gender specific drugs and procedures for which the gender needs to be known. Doctors don't say "oh its a boy" or "oh its a girl" for their fucking health. They say it so that they know that the child will receive proper health care.

Don't conflate biological sex with gender identity. Gender is a social construct, and while this social construct can be used for scientific purposes in the social and health sciences, this forum is not that. It's not doing a social experiment. And if it was, it would allow for more inclusive gender identity. Even in the realm of healthcare (since you seem to love using that as your talking point), there is a reason to be all-inclusive as the issues facing trans* people are not necessarily the same as others.

And now let's say gender and biological sex is the same. This forum isn't providing users with health care services, so your prejudice in the guise of scientific reason does not hold any ground here.

 

[Iteru]

@TerraTF; we will never have just those three options you have proposed. Both Bikini Miltank and The Outrage have explained why, and so neither you or anyone else will be discussing it further.

 

[Archaic]

To get back to the original poster...the main problem really is where we stop. It's very difficult to provide options for everything that people might identify as, so at some point we have to have an "everything else" option.

Now having said that, I am open to suggestions of how we can improve our current selection to be more inclusive.