Bulbapedia Generation IV - The ??? Generation

[Ash_Pokemaster]

As discussed a bit on this thread, it seems that some people are open to changing Generation IV's "fan name" in Bulbapedia from 3D Generation, into something more fitting.

My initial appeal on the subject in the discussion of the 'Generation IV' article, from June 2012:

To be honest, I find that term very inaccurate... Despite the fact that 3D graphics are attempted for the first time in Generation IV, neither DPPt nor HGSS are characterized by that. In fact, camera and movement-wise the games don't show their '3D convertion' that much. Furthermore, the fact that the battles are completely in 2D with no effects in that (in contrast to BW) whatsoever, makes it even harder to think of this generation as the '3D Generation'.

Out of all possible names, 'Touch Generation', 'Dual Generation', why '3D'? Isn't the point of naming Generations sticking them a name fans actually use, or at least one that fits? Ideally, I don't think there should be a "fan name" for Generation IV (or V, for all it matters), but at this point, I would say that 'Dual' is the most accurate out of the three (considering not even the Touchscreen was used that much besides in menus, until PokéAthlon); funny thing, 'Dual' was actually used for a while, back when people actually called the generations by fan-coined terms instead of numbers. But it just didn't stick in the end.

Is the named stuck for good, or is there hope for changing it? -Ash_Pokemaster 07:28, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

As I thought it would be wrong to decide that the name should be changed without the community's approval, I have added the initial poll to resolve whether or not people feel like the moniker should change in first place -- I know many aren't comfortable with retroactive decisions in such matters. I've put a four weeks limit to the poll, just so that we can be sure many will see this and present their opinion.

In the meantime, I'd like to see suggestions on the matter. The suggestions presented on this thread will be used as a base for the second poll, in the occasion of approval of this appeal. If there are too many suggestions, the most prevalent ones will be considered.

What do you feel a fitting name would be?

 

[Green Zubat]

I, for one, am very strongly against this. Gen IV already has it's nickname, I don't see the need to force another. Besides, Gen IV first introduced 3D graphics, and anything else the other gens do with 3D (e.g. 3D battles, for example) is just an extension of that, so it only makes sense for Gen IV to be the 3D gen.

 

[ange]

I personally don't want to do either, I want to remove it altogether.

The alternate names for Gen I, II and III emerged, as I understand it, because it was faster to say them (color/metal/advance) instead of spelling out all the version names, and therefore it makes sense to have those in their respective articles because fans have actually used them. Nowadays, times have changed and Generations doesn't seem to be called by these kind of alternate names anymore. People use "Gen IV, V, VI" or abbreviations like DDPt, HGSS or BW instead of some word with "generation" afterwards.

I only see it being necessary to include alternate names if they were or are actually in use, and since Gen IV, V and VI aren't called anything else than Gen IV, V and VI, I think we should remove those slapped-on alternate names altogether. I know this poll is only about Gen IV, but I wanted to get my whole message out.

 

[DoctorWhy]

I voted yes, but I would prefer if the silly nicknames would just be thrown out altogether.

 

[SnorlaxMonster]

Yes, this problem is exactly why I don't like listing the names. It's not something people use, and really it more ends up being Bulbapedia telling people what it is than Bulbapedia reporting what people call it. I think they should be removed, and the names that were actually used can go in the article text somewhere.

Also, while "3D Generation" may not be the most accurate, if that is what it is usually referred to, that is what we should call it. Bulbapedia should not try to force fan-terminology on the fandom, it should only report what is already there.

 

[Ash_Pokemaster]

As I said in my initial appeal, I'm also open to removing the titles for the last three generations (or completely?). Since this poll has opened, let's take a decision about Generation IV first -- but maybe there's no need to go further than that; next month we could have the community decide about whether they feel like removing the titles altogether.

Yes, this problem is exactly why I don't like listing the names. It's not something people use, and really it more ends up being Bulbapedia telling people what it is than Bulbapedia reporting what people call it. I think they should be removed, and the names that were actually used can go in the article text somewhere.

Also, while "3D Generation" may not be the most accurate, if that is what it is usually referred to, that is what we should call it. Bulbapedia should not try to force fan-terminology on the fandom, it should only report what is already there.

Arguably, the latter is true -- due to the former. However, go and Google 'Pokemon "3D Generation"'. You'll get more results about XY than about DPPt/HGSS... At least 'Monochrome' comes out a bit more naturally. If names have to stay, they should at least be something that is not confusing. And most of all, especially when they are not something actually used, I'd argue that it's better that the name is at least chosen by the whole community rather than one person at one point of time.

If the names do go though, that's another discussion.

 

[VeggiePopper]

I personally don't want to do either, I want to remove it altogether.

The alternate names for Gen I, II and III emerged, as I understand it, because it was faster to say them (color/metal/advance) instead of spelling out all the version names, and therefore it makes sense to have those in their respective articles because fans have actually used them. Nowadays, times have changed and Generations doesn't seem to be called by these kind of alternate names anymore. People use "Gen IV, V, VI" or abbreviations like DDPt, HGSS or BW instead of some word with "generation" afterwards.

I only see it being necessary to include alternate names if they were or are actually in use, and since Gen IV, V and VI aren't called anything else than Gen IV, V and VI, I think we should remove those slapped-on alternate names altogether. I know this poll is only about Gen IV, but I wanted to get my whole message out.

Yes, this problem is exactly why I don't like listing the names. It's not something people use, and really it more ends up being Bulbapedia telling people what it is than Bulbapedia reporting what people call it. I think they should be removed, and the names that were actually used can go in the article text somewhere.

Also, while "3D Generation" may not be the most accurate, if that is what it is usually referred to, that is what we should call it. Bulbapedia should not try to force fan-terminology on the fandom, it should only report what is already there.

This and this. A nickname is something spontaneous and natural, not something you force everyone else to use. Thus forcing a nickname that just one random person randomly slapped on an article (as just was the case with Gen VI BEFORE IT'S EVEN RELEASED) not only defeats the purpose of the nickname, is simply stupid. Even voting for a nickname, while a better option, is still lame. The nickname should emerge naturally as times goes by and we refer to a generation in such way. And then, if a nickname dosn't appear, then it's fine, because it means that it wasn't needed. Not every generation has to have a nickname just because the previous ones before had it.

 

[Ash_Pokemaster]

I apologize for the late update.

While it seems that most would be open to a name change, the number of votes and the input suggests a lack of interest on the whole issue. If anyone is still interested, the topic can remain open for name suggestions and whatsoever; if a commonly accepted resolution or a respectable number of suggestions is reached, this might go on on a later date.