Has the shows plotholes increased or decreased over the years?

[Cybersai]

Someone mentioned in the other thread that some of the shows biggest plotholes, such as the GS ball, Ash's father, etc, all happened during the first few seasons.

Its understandable since Kanto was when the show was first starting, and the writers were just getting down the universe, hence the real animals in Season 1 that disappeared as the show went on, and other things that happened that season that weren't done again.

Then in Johto, the biggest problem was the GS ball plot being abandoned, broken promises with Cyndaquil and Totodile evolving, Togepi's storyline being handled horribly, and characters being misused such as Casey and Gary both fizzling out as the saga went on, let alone Misty and Brock barely getting any development this season.

But say, from the point of AG onward, do you think the plotholes have been kept to a minimum? I know people hated the lack of Kanto references during the Battle Frontier arc, but even so, why would the same filler characters still be in Kanto after all this time? Ash travels across the world, wouldn't half those Kanto filler characters do the same thing? Hell, Suzie and Duplica showed up in Johto.

And as for DP, I can't think of any real plotholes, at least not yet anyway.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Rhapsody]

I'd agree with the sentiment that it seems to be that there were more plot holes in the earlier seasons than in the later ones, precisely because the writers have more of an idea of what to do with the characters from AG onwards (Takeshi is obviously excluded from this.)

However, I feel like with D/P, there's actually the largest chance for disappointment. There's so much potential in this particular season that if the writers somehow mess it up, it won't be pretty. I can only hope that the writers keep on keeping on and that D/P is as good as it can and should be.

 

[PDL]

(Takeshi is obviously excluded from this.)

You purposely put this to annoy me didn't you?

Being a supporting character, he doesn't really need to be showcased that often. His main appeal is his Pokémon.

 

[Rhapsody]

I'm aware that as a supporting character, Takeshi doesn't need to be showcased that often. That doesn't mean, however, that he shouldn't be showcased more often. Takeshi, by and large, is a static character that never really goes through very many changes, which is fine, considering the role he plays within the group as a sort of pillar and support for Satoshi and Haruka/Hikari.

Still, I think his character would be far more awesome if the writers could actually come up with something for him to do. I mean, in a very rare instance, I've gotta reference Jouto and Kanto as an instance where they knew how to use a character - breeding competitions. I'm aware that some people think Contests have replaced those, but I think they're two very different things. They don't need to do many of them, but it'd be cool to see Takeshi do something.

 

[PDL]

Still, I think his character would be far more awesome if the writers could actually come up with something for him to do. I mean, in a very rare instance, I've gotta reference Jouto and Kanto as an instance where they knew how to use a character - breeding competitions. I'm aware that some people think Contests have replaced those, but I think they're two very different things. They don't need to do many of them, but it'd be cool to see Takeshi do something.

While it would be nice for him to be showcased in more episodes, there's already so much screentime deicated to Ash's training (both his rivialry with Paul and gym challenges) and Dawn's contest training. Not to mention that whole Team Galactic plot. I get the feeling that the writers still have trouble with pacing, and Brock is has unbalanced showcasing as a result.

But I don't see how this really counts as a "plothole". It's mostly seen as moaning and bitching on how Brock serves no purpose and should leave. Even though his "services" are useful in the end. Heck, his temporary replacement was just as dull, therefore, it's probably planned by the writers that the role of supporting character doesn't get that much spotlighting.

The GS ball was probably the biggest plothole considering that something huge was planned for it, (Celebi being in the ball), but then they decided to put Celebi in the 4th movie.

It's best to forget about it, but Pokémon fans, being as OCD as they are, obsess and compulse over it like no tomorrow.

My guess as to why the GS saga was so badly written was that they tried to strech a 52 episode plot (that's how long the Indigo saga was supposed to be) over 3 times as long. That's why there were so many filler episodes that served no purpose. Hence why they had to introduce a second storyline, the contest arcs in the RSE saga.

 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

The GS ball. I feel that they can still introdue it back into the storyline but only if the writers are very careful as giving a generation 2 pokemon a main role for a couple of episodes in the 4th generation is not the best idea in the world

 

[Dogasu]

hence the real animals in Season 1 that disappeared as the show went on

Except...the real animals are still very much around. You can still hear bird chirps and cricket sounds (check out the Riolu episodes since they don't have dub music drowning everything out), and the Pokemon Zukan makes references to real animals all the time.

Sure, we don't see them as blatantly as we used to see real live fish and that mongoose and whatnot, but they're still around.

 

[Jo-Jo]

In order to have plot-holes, Pokemon would need to have a plot. Instead, it has an RPG concept, which isn't exactly complex enough to screw up. The things fans call 'plot-holes' are actually just side-plots that went nowhere.

Anyway, I don't have an opinion on the topic, so I'll save us a few posts and skip to the conclusion I suspect we're intended to reach: it's ALL JOHTO'S FAULT AND DON'T YOU EVER FORGET IT. Oh, and Brock sucks.

 

[PDL]

Anyway, I don't have an opinion on the topic, so I'll save us a few posts and skip to the conclusion I suspect we're intended to reach: it's ALL JOHTO'S FAULT AND DON'T YOU EVER FORGET IT. Oh, and Brock sucks.

I have to admit, these are the same conclusions that every thread happens to go to when Scott posts in them.

 

[Mooites]

I dont know, does Swinub count as a plot hole? Its really starting to annoy me.

And the reason there were so many plot holes in season 1 is because they didnt expect the show to be so popular and to continue. So the things they did in that season dont really fit into the newer stuff.

 

[Kasumi]

Not to mention the show was supposed to last only like 56 episodes or so in the beginning.

 

[coolcatkim22]

Except...the real animals are still very much around. You can still hear bird chirps and cricket sounds (check out the Riolu episodes since they don't have dub music drowning everything out), and the Pokemon Zukan makes references to real animals all the time.

Sure, we don't see them as blatantly as we used to see real live fish and that mongoose and whatnot, but they're still around.

Not to mention humans.

Any ways, I find that there are plot holes i every fictional work and even is non-fictional works there can be flaws with point of view and lack of information.
So I don't mind the plot holes. What I mind is the way that the show tries to develop one shot characters or reoccurring characters instead of the main characters. They don't do it as much in D/P but it still happens a lot.

 

[Mooites]

I'd also like to add that the plot holes make us keep and loose our sanity. Keep because it helps us remember this is fiction and has its problems. Loose because we actually pay attention to them.

 

[Shinx3000]

I would agreewith you Mooites. Few plotholes I wondered about:

Where to burgers come from? We have seen Ash talk about them a few times (last time I remember was in a Hoenn episode when Ash came out of a restruant saying abiut burgers and there was a pic of a burger inside the building)

The actual animals appearing in the show at the start.

GS Ball

The disappearance of Jigglypuff

Will or won't Misty return?

And so on...

But I have to agree that plotholes have decreased alot and I don't really recall any in D/P as of yet.

 

[PDL]

Will or won't Misty return?

That's not a plothole.

She's not returning since she's already pursuing her dream as a water Pokémon master, which is best acheived as a gym leader.

Meaning that she can't travel with Ash.

 

[Cybersai]

The disappearance of Jigglypuff

Will or won't Misty return?

But I have to agree that plotholes have decreased alot and I don't really recall any in D/P as of yet.

Neither of those are plotholes.

Misty's story was concluded and Jigglypuff was just a running gag.

As for what the food is that they're eating, who knows. I guess they don't want to explain if they're eating Miltank burgers or something.

 

[Kasumi]

Since when Misty leaving was a plothole? ; And no, she's not going to return as a main character. I wonder why people are still asking this question after five or six years. =/

Scott: maybe Tauros burgers?

 

[Cybersai]

Besides Ash becoming a Pokemon master, the only other long-running plots from Season 1 in this show are Ho-oh and Giovanni, both of which seem to be saved for the end of the series.

I'm pretty convinced before the show ends Ash will meet Ho-oh in some form, the writers remind us of Ho-oh in every season so they want to keep it on our minds. Since Ho-oh has never had a proper debut so to speak, I'm sure it'll happen during the very last eps of the anime.

As for Giovanni, the only way I can see Jessie/James/Meowth getting happy endings is if Ash eventually disbands Team Rocket similar to the games and Giovanni is either arrested or sees the error of his ways, or whatever. Again, this will probably happen during the very last season so TR can stick around until then.

Its sad though, that the GS ball will probably never be opened. It still bugs people to this day. Johto gave us the biggest plothole of the series, its such a shame.

 

[Jo-Jo]

Technically the GS ball isn't a plot-hole either. Like I said, it's a side-quest that didn't go anywhere. A plot-hole is a logic blip; something that doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo-Jo
Anyway, I don't have an opinion on the topic, so I'll save us a few posts and skip to the conclusion I suspect we're intended to reach: it's ALL JOHTO'S FAULT AND DON'T YOU EVER FORGET IT. Oh, and Brock sucks.

I have to admit, these are the same conclusions that every thread happens to go to when Scott posts in them.

It's like Johto is the Kevin Bacon of Pokemon.

 

[Cybersai]

Technically the GS ball isn't a plot-hole either. Like I said, it's a side-quest that didn't go anywhere. A plot-hole is a logic blip; something that doesn't make sense.

I guess, but the writers built up a big mystery of what was inside the GS ball and both Prof. Ivy and Prof. Oak couldn't open it, so it seemed like a plot.

Not to mention the GS ball mystery stretched across the entire Orange Island arc and the first 30 or so episodes of Johto, so it was quite awhile that Ash was holding it. In terms of Pokemon, it seemed like a major plotpoint.

It's like Johto is the Kevin Bacon of Pokemon.

The Johto saga deserves all the hate it gets, its because of the hate toward Johto that it prompted the writers to get off their asses and actually put effort into the show again, and stop wasting our time with mundane filler and running the show into the ground. The Johto saga is like the "Buffy Season 6," "Star Trek Voyager" or the "Star Wars Episodes 1 and 2" of the Pokemon anime. By that I mean Johto had some good eps at certain points and has a cult fanbase, but the arc as a whole was handled pretty badly.

In all seriousness, the show right now could have been exactly the same as it was during Johto. This is a kids show, the writers had no reason to change it, and suddenly make it more plot driven, introduce new villains or more interesting characters. Its almost as if they were well aware of the fan-complaints toward it and they wanted to do things to keep people interested.

Ash evolving his Pokemon? Check, something people always wanted but never got back in Johto. Character development back in the series? Check. The girls getting more of a role? Check. The battles improving? Check. Maturing Ash's character so he wasn't such a moron? Check. The rivals appearing more frequently? Check. Splitting up the starters so Ash's team isn't so predictable? Check. Reducing the amount of fillers between each Gym? Check.

It really did seem like the writers catered the show to the section of the fanbase that disliked Johto immensely and wanted a change. Why change a kids show when they didn't have to put effort into it? Kids would still watch regardless how crappy the eps are, but it honestly seems as if the writers still want to keep hold of their older fans.