Heatran-centric Sandstorm Team

[ShinyFlareon]

I just got really lucky catching Heatran, and I want to build a team around it. It's a Rash nature, and it's trait is mischievous.

Here are it's IVs:

Heatran - #485 (Rash)
HP: 20
Att: 15
Def: 7
SpA: 31
SpD: 7
Speed: 26

Rash #485 Heatran: 20 / 15 / 7 / 31 / 7 / 26

Hidden Power Type is 'Psychic'. Hidden Power Power is 69.

True, the defensive IVs aren't stellar, and neither is Attack - but I'm quite happy with the Speed, HP, and Sp. Attack ones. As such, I've decided that I want to build a team around him.

Heatran@Choice Scarf
Rash nature
4Hp/252Sp.Atk/252Spd
--Earth Power/Earthquake
-- Dragon Pulse/Hidden Power (psychic)
-- Magma Storm/Lava Plume/Fire Blast
-- Explosion

I'm having problems deciding on a Fire type move, as you can probably tell. I might actually run HP Psychic over Dragon Pulse, though - it'll net me a lot of neutral coverage, like Dragon Pulse, and will be a good surprise to any fighting types like Machamp or Hariyama that try and switch in. The EVs are fairly straightforward, and a Rash nature is actually rather lucky - this guy's probably going to have to take a lot more physical than special hits in the form of Earthquake (note that that doesn't mean I'm going to be switching him into every EQ that comes my way...I'm just thinking most of these will be 2HKOs instead of OHKOs, and the attack most likely to be sent at him in that turn between is Earthquake). However, because of the neutral attack nature, I may run Earthquake over Earth Power for two reasons: one, I won't have to deal with Earth Power's special attack drop, and two, a lot of people will probably be expecting me to run Earth Power on him, switch in something with heavy special defense, and I can surprise them with Earthquake.

So as for the team, I'm thinking of giving a Sandstorm team another try. How does this look?

Hippowdon@Leftovers
Impish nature
EVs: 252HP/4Atk/252Def
-- Earthquake
-- Ice Fang/Stealth Rock
-- Slack Off
-- Yawn

Part Sandstorm set-upper, part physical wall. Yawn will probably force a lot of switches, so I'm considering Stealth Rock over a secondary attack. Slack off to heal damage, and Earthquake for a really good STAB move. Ice Fang could also go in the second slot. EVs are an attempt to make Hippowdon as bulky as possible, while still giving EQ and the second attack some bite.

Tyranitar@Leftovers
Jolly nature
EVs:4HP/252Atk/252Spd
--Dragon Dance
-- Stone Edge
-- Crunch
-- Aqua Tail

Rather typical DD Tyranitar, filling the roles of physical sweeper and secondary Sand Stream setup. Aqua Tail allows me to hit ground-types who will probably switch in and still hits most steels for neutral damage. Stone Edge+Crunch for STAB and pretty good coverage, and Jolly nature to make sure I out-speed anything thinking it can stop me.

Zapdos@Life Orb/Leftovers
Gentle/Sassy/Lax nature
EVs: ???
--Roost
-- Thunderbolt
-- Drill Peck
-- Hidden Power (ice)/Heat Wave

Two major threats to my team are water- and grass-types with STAB Super-effective moves. This Zapdos is an attempt to counter those two threats, with a STAB electric and flying move. Thunderbolt effectively spays and neuters most water types, while Drill Peck does acceptable damage to Water/Ground types, and absolutely massacres Ludicolo. Roost to maintain health. HP Ice would give me another good attack for most dragons, but Heat Wave is an acceptable alternative. Gentle, Lax, or Sassy nature so I'm not taking anything away from Drill Peck while maintaining Zapdos' bulkiness. I seriously need help with the EV spread on this guy, though, and the item is a toss-up. Life Orb lets me deal more damage, but Leftovers helps with the residual Sandstorm damage and means I can recover more health with Roost.

Flygon@Life Orb (?)
Lonely/Naughty nature
EVs: 32HP/128Atk/32Sp.Atk/252Spd
-- Screech
-- U-turn
-- Earthquake
-- Draco Meteor

Flygon may be seen as a bit of a gimmick choice, but a Dragon-type immune to Sandstorm and not named Garchomp can't be a bad thing. Screech supports the team as a whole, U-turn let's me switch out fairly safely, and Earthquake and Draco Meteor for STAB. The EVs...need work. Max speed to make me as fast as possible, the bulk of the rest go into Attack to power up U-Turn and Earthquake, and the rest are split between HP and Special Attack.

Foretress@Shed Shell
Relaxed nature
EVs: 252 HP/162 Atk/96 Def
--Spikes
-- Gyro Ball
-- Rapid Spin
-- Explosion

Typical Rapid Spinning Foretress. Spikes over Toxic Spikes so I don't accidentally give something a Guts boost, and Gyro Ball over Earthquake because I have lots of things already running Earthquake. Exploding when I'm done finishes everything off rather well, and does respectable damage to things that don't resist it.

 

[Wiilio]

Nice Heatran. Congrats! Makes me want to finally SR my third one.

For Heatran, I run Fire Blast. It has power and doesn't need constant switching. Also, your Hidden Power is good power... but not good type. Keep it with Dragon Pulse. Use Earth Power as well, and obviously, Explosion.

As far as the team in general goes, take out Zapdos. It doesn't have business being there. This is a sand team so you need to have all members immune to the sandstorm (Unlike hail teams but I won't get into that). As for the rest of the team, I notice a huge lack of special moves (besides Heatran). You can always replace Zapdos with a special Lucario. Specs, Life Orb, whichever. You could make Tyranitar a boah (mixed set). Hippowdon's your physical wall obviously. Can't see much else. Special moves are going to give you pain (Especially Infernape), so you might want something to deal with that... perhaps a Cradily, but then there's Close Combat... I dunno. I'll think about it and get back to you.

 

[The Outrage]

It doesn't have business being there. This is a sand team so you need to have all members immune to the sandstorm (Unlike hail teams but I won't get into that)

Who taught you that? A Sand Storm team does not need everyone immune to SandStorm, just two or three other Pokemon besides the one setting it up.

What you suggest makes this team incredibly weak to Infernape, Starmies, Suicunes etc....

....basically, its almost as bad as mono-type teams because of the common weakness they share. Of course, they do have the advantage of variety, but they honestly do not need everyone to be immune. That's something that's always bothered me about this specific forum, everyone who posts a sand team thinks that.

Besides, Zapdos provides partial Gyarados coverage.

 

[Wiilio]

There's enough variety between Rock-, Ground-, and Steel- types to have all you need to stop pretty much anything. The only thing that having all of them does is give you trouble with Infernape. Steels can easily take on Starmie and Suicune (Jirachi being the best, with Metagross and Scizor behind them. Switch Metagross and Scizor in on Ice Beam/Psychic/Grass Knot, and Jirachi can take anything they've got, unless Suicune, which is very rarely seen on Wi-Fi anyway, has an insane amount of CM boosts). The only thing that, say, an Aerodactyl would fear would be HP Ice, and even then, it's only a 2x supereffective attack and Aerodactyl gets a SpD boost in the sandstorm. It can scare off Infernape with Earthquake.

Also, he has a ScarfTran. It can switch in on an Infernape Flamethrower, and OHKO with Earth Power. I don't even think Close Combat from the standard Mixape is a OHKO.

I suppose it doesn't NEED to be all Rock-, Steel-, and Ground- types, but since between all of them there's plenty of variety, I would highly recommend it. If you want something else on there that takes damage every turn, that's fine.

 

[The Outrage]

Yeah, when I thought abou it, the variety between all the Pokemon combined with proper prediction and luck, you have things covered.

Ironcially, my Hail team has trouble against opposing hail teams using all-ice Pokemon--though that's largely due to me being unable to take on Stalrein.

I'd definately use Ice Fang on hippowdon since I'm questioning this team's ability to take on Mixmence.

Although it is true Yawn could force switches, playing by Sleep Clause, one might just switch in their Restalker and have it take the sleep status, so SR can go there, or Roar, if you aren't doing Sleep Clause, then feel free to spam it up.

EDIT: Damn, I forgot to post my other comment:

Magma Storm as your fire move because its always fun to trap Blisseys.

 

[Wiilio]

Hail teams are weird... I still can't build mine the right way. And it's a shame, because I really want to use my shiny Abomasnow...

Now that iPoké has made me realize the quite large problem against Infernape, you really sort of NEED Aerodactyl on this team, unless you want to go into things that take damage from the storm every turn... Heatran is obviously staying on and of course is a solid choice. Tyranitar as well. Forretress is going to need to provide Rapid Spin support for Aerodactyl. As for Hippowdon, I think it's pretty replaceable, since Forretress is defensively bulky, like Hippowdon. Personally, I still think this team needs more special attacking force. Jirachi would be your best choice really, because it can take on Mixmence, which iPoké pointed out as a threat. It resists Draco Meteor and is neutral to Brick Break (while being bulky). CM Jirachi should be able to stop it. If you can't get a good Jirachi, Bronzong might have to do. It's very hard to counter a Mixmence in general. Either way, your best bet would be switching either of them in on a Draco Meteor so Flamethrower/Fire Blast is weakened. You could always be tricky with Bronzong and run Heat Proof (since no one would ever suspect it in the first place).

Can't Heatran take on Mixmence pretty well? It can switch in on Draco Meteor and Flamethrower/Fire Blast, and I doubt it would be hit all that hard by Brick Break (2HKO at best maybe?).

...and I've really gotten lost with all of this stuff I've typed. I guess what I'm basically saying is that Zapdos should be swapped with Aerodactyl, and Hippowdon should be swapped with some sort of special attacker.

Do not judge me. It's late :<

EDIT: I... cannot believe... I forgot about Swampert. That could probably do the trick for Mixmence. Just make it Sassy instead of Relaxed, hit it back with either Stone Edge or Ice Beam. That could be in the last slot for special attacker since it has Surf and Ice Beam. It can also Roar and stuffs

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Thanks for both your help! The only thing with replacing Hippowdon is that I'd feel like I'm taking too much of a risk, having only Tyranitar to set up Sand Stream - and I'm at the moment not able to get ANY Jirachi, so he's obviously out. And apart from Thunder Fang or Hidden Power Electric, Areodactyl has no way to effectively deal with water-types, and really only has Aerial Ace to deal with grass-types. What if I put a Magnezone with Hidden Power Fire or Ice in to replace Zapdos?

 

[Wiilio]

Magnezone's good, but then you've got a problem with Infernape again. You could always replace Flygon with Magnezone. Swampert's going to be your best bet against Mixmence without being extremely hard to get... unless I'm forgetting yet another Pokémon. I still can't believe I forgot about Swampert...

EDIT: Regirock for Mixmence (Thank you Crankyman)

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Swampert will be easy enough to get. Thanks, Wiil (and for the record...I'm a girl. You said earlier "HE's running..." ^_~ just fyi).

Changes: Heatran will carry Earth Power, Magma Storm ('cuz it's fun, and like iPoke said, to trap Blisseys), Dragon Pulse, and Explosion; Hippowdon will have Earthquake, Ice Fang, Slack Off, and Stealth Rock. Considering running a Tyraniboah over DD, but am still thinking. Foretress stays the same.

That leaves Flygon and Zapdos. While I'd dearly love to use the desert dragon, I have to admit that his role is rather redundant. And though Swampert would be a good replacement...I'm less than impressed with his special attack. I'm going to look again at a Specs Lucario, and try breeding again to get HP Ice or Electric, with Close Combat over Vaccum Wave to handle Blissey should one switch in. Gyarados can be handled by Stealth Rock and Tyranitar's Stone Edge, while Heatran can handle grass-types.

 

[Wiilio]

lol, Sorry about that. Now I know to call you a she! (Forgive me for my lack of knowledge on Japanese suffixes.)

Magma Storm will be fine, but watch out for its accuracy.

So what is the team now? It's been tossed up so many times (by myself, I do apologize) that I have no idea what it is anymore.

Also, just got this that I'll be using for a Giratina-O in Platinum:

Giratina - #487 (Naughty)
HP: 15
Att: 26 - 27
Def: 0 - 1
SpA: 20 - 21
SpD: 23 - 24
Speed: 30

Now I can SR my OWN Heatran! Hopefully it'll be at least as good as yours is.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Good luck with that, Wiil! And no worries about the mix-up...the name sorta came out of thin air. 'Kun' actually is used more for boys than girls (though girls CAN be called 'kun' and boys CAN be called 'chan').

And as of now, the team is this:

Heatran@Choice Scarf
(same nature and EVs)
-- Magma Storm
-- Earth Power
-- Dragon Pulse
-- Explosion

Hippowdon@Leftovers
(same nature and EVs)
-- Eqrthquake
-- Ice Fang
-- Slack Off
-- Stealth Rock

Foretress@Shed Shell
(same nature, EVs, and moveset)

Tyranitar@Leftovers
(same nature, EVs, and moveset - still thinking about Boah)

Zapdos@Leftovers
(still need help on nature and EVs - same moveset)

Lucario@Choice Specs
Rash/Mild nature
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs:4Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe
-- Aura Sphere
-- Hidden Power (electric)
-- Shadow Ball
-- Close Combat

Attack neutral nature and 4 EVs in attack to ensure CC is at full power. The rest is pretty standard - only Hidden Power Electric to help me deal with water-types.

 

[The Outrage]

I believe a single Calm mind Aura Sphere on a Lucario can take on Blissey, so its probably the same for CSpecs, though I have to run calcs.

 

[Mukubird]

Neutral 252 SAtk SpecsLuke's Aura Sphere on Bold 252 HP/0 SDef Blissey:

493 Atk vs 306 Def & 714 HP (90 Base Power): 312 - 368 (43.70% - 51.54%)

+ 252 SAtk SpecsLuke's Aura Sphere on Bold 252 HP/0 SDef Blissey:

541 Atk vs 306 Def & 714 HP (90 Base Power): 342 - 404 (47.90% - 56.58%)

Neutral 4 Atk SpecsLuke's Close Combat on Bold 252 HP/252 Def Blissey:

257 Atk vs 130 Def & 714 HP (120 Base Power): 510 - 602 (71.43% - 84.31%)

 

[Wiilio]

Thanks to those calcs, you can see that it's always going to be, at least, a 2HKO. Since you have Stealth Rock AND Spikes, I think that no matter what you do with Lucario, it's going to be a 2HKO all the time. Even if you don't have them down yet, with the sandstorm going, it's going to be a 2HKO a lot of the time. You could always use Modest and use a special move in the last slot. You could try Dragon Pulse to hit Salamence/Flygon/(the occasional) Dragonite/Kingdra, or Vacuum Wave for priority. It's up to you.

As for Zapdos, have you SR'd it yet? If you haven't and you're using it mainly for Gyarados, then you might want to make it Bold. I have a Bold one and I run Thunderbolt/Heat Wave/Roost/Toxic. 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe is the EV spread. Gentle and Lax really aren't good natures for anything (Except I've seen Gentle recommended for a 3rd gen Mr. Mime), and Sassy isn't the best nature for Zapdos since it's fast. You could always make it Calm instead and switch Def EVs to SpD. For Zapdos, since Synchronize doesn't work on it, it's best just to take what you get. You have to choose from: Modest, Timid, Bold, Calm, and not recommended but still viable: Rash, Mild, Hasty, Naive, Naughty, and Lonely. Any of the last 6 could let you still run Drill Peck like you have on that set already. If you do get HP Ice, it might be a good idea to run it and Heat Wave over Drill Peck.

It just depends, really. It took me about 2 weeks to get a good Zapdos, and it still doesn't have a good Hidden Power. Whatever you get first, if it's good, keep it. You can work something out.

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Thanks for the clacs, Mukubird. They were really helpful.

@Wiil: I've already got Dragon Pulse on Heatran...perhaps I'll use Dark Pulse on Lucario, or Exremespeed (I can't believe I forgot about that move...). And I'm planning on having Zapdos be my answer to most/all water and grass types, not just Gyarados (though he's the most threatening). I don't even have Zapdos yet at this point...I'm going to need to either trade for it or get myself a copy of FR or LG, but I plan on doing that eventually anyway. It's just a matter of when.

And sorry to ask, but what does SR stand for?

 

[Wiilio]

When I was using it, SR = soft reset (resetting for good legendaries/event things). It can also mean Stealth Rock.

Lucario's special, so if you want to use a priority move, go with Vacuum Wave (It's an egg move and a Platinum tutor). It'll get STAB (bringing it to 60 base power) and be boosted by Choice Specs. Dark Pulse and Shadow Ball do nearly the same thing, so there's not much point in having both. Shadow Ball/Aura Sphere have the best coverage of any two moves (It's not resisted by any Pokémon). If you don't want to use Dragon Pulse on Lucario, Vacuum Wave is the way to go, and although you already have Dragon Pulse on Heatran, it's still a good choice for Lucario.

Got my Heatran by the way

Heatran - #485 (Naïve)
HP: 3
Att: 13 - 14
Def: 21 - 22
SpA: 29
SpD: 1 - 2
Speed: 29

Thanks for motivating me!

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. And good job with your Heatran! ^_^ I reset for mine a couple times too, but it was mainly for nature - I was about to keep a mild one with a sp.atk IV of 27, but I'm glad I kept going.

Ugh...breeding for Vacuum Wave is going to be a pain...still, it's not like I don't have other work to do to bring this team to life, so I guess I'll just have to grin and bear it. I think I have a Tyrogue rotting somewhere in one of my boxes...or if I could find someone who'd be willing to trade me any old Riolu/Lucario that knows the move, and I can just breed for the nature. I may just do that, while I'm on my Zapdos hunt. *sigh* How bothersome...thanks for all your help, Wiil.

EDIT: You know what? Forget Choice Specs. I dislike choice items, anyway. I'll try a CM set:

Lucario@Life Orb (?)
Modest nature
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 32HP/128Def/252Sp.Atk/32Spd
-- Calm Mind
-- Aura Sphere
-- Shadow Ball
-- Hidden Power (electric)/Vacuum Wave

Don't see a whole lot of need to invest in Sp.Def EVs, since I'm going to be boosting my special defense with Calm Mind AND get a boost from Sandstorm. Aura Sphere and Shadow Ball for coverage, HP Electric if I can get it, Vacuum Wave if I can't.

 

[Wiilio]

Only Rock-types get SpD boost from the sandstorm. And, as I said, Vacuum Wave is also a tutor move for Platinum, so if you don't want to breed it on there, you can wait for the American Platinum or try to find someone with Platinum to tutor it on there. There are a few people in my channel who have it, if you'd like to stop by.

One of these days, I might get back to beating FR again, and I could see about SRing a Zapdos for you, but don't expect that any time soon XD

 

[ShinyFlareon]

Whoops. Oh well - I'll still be getting the CM boosts. And I just put up a post on the trade coordination thread, so I'll wait and see what happens. Thanks for the offer, though! ^^ it's really sweet of you. How does my Calm Mind set look, though?

 

[Wiilio]

It looks fine as far as moveset, but what are the Def/HP EVs for? Did you pick them for a purpose?