HM's: Why The Weak Moves, But Not The Stronger As Well?

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SHADE 45

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When I got back into Pokemon with Diamond and played through both it and Platinum, I usually would have at least one HM slave with me (usually a Bibarel). Having one HM slave isn't a big deal in my opinion, especially with Platinum since there's so many times to use them. Now HG/SS have come around and I feel like the need for certain HMs has decreased immensely. By this I mean that I've gotten TOO used to not needing HMs that when the time comes, I get annoyed having to fly back in order to get a Pokemon for an HM.

For example, you use Cut immediately after you obtain the HM in HG/SS and for the most part need it maybe one or two more times in the game and those times may be optional. Rock Smash isn't needed in the game PERIOD.

What confuses me though is the weakness of the HM's. I understand that certain moves can't be too powerful so early in the game or their purpose should not have them be too powerful, but in that case, how come moves with similar names and purposes can't act as HM's? For example, if Cut is about 50 base power yet Slash is 70, why can't you use Slash to cut down trees? Slash is a pretty decent move and is much more likely to be on a regular Pokemon than Cut so I'd rather have that on one of my guys. Doesn't Slash sound more fierce and likely to cut down a tree anyway?

How about Brick Break vs Rock Smash. Isn't breaking bricks a lot tougher than smashing rocks? I understand that Japanese names may be different, but you can't take away from the fact that the moves are similar and have more power. Other moves like Fly, Surf, and Whirlpool can't really have other options due to their specific purpose, but I think that the destruction HMs could fit to what I'm talking about.

What does everyone else think? Should certain moves be given outside of battle purposes identical to HMs due to their stronger power and similar move type?
 
Brick Break should've been in Rock Smash's place. It can be used to not only break down rocks, but also weak points in walls.
 
I know. Why can't Slash, Night Slash, Psycho Cut, Cross Poison, or Shadow Claw work as Cut outside of battle?
 
CyanideEspeon said:
I know. Why can't Slash, Night Slash, Psycho Cut, Cross Poison, or Shadow Claw work as Cut outside of battle?
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That would actually be really creative. Instead of HM being individual moves, they add the map effect to certain already exisiting moves. I love that idea.
 
Yeah, since so many moves are similar to each other, why can't they be substituted in the place of HM's? Rock Clim could be accomplished by fly, or strength. Surf... well, surf could be accomplished by any water type naturally.
 
I like the idea of Brick Break being used as a substitute for Rock Smash. Thanks to the anime, I hate Rock Smash even more.
 
Personally, I think that any Pokémon with the ability to use a certain HM should be able to perform the overworld effect (once the appropriate badge is in hand, of course). I mean, really, Wailord's a massive aquatic beast, but it can't carry me across a lake unless it knows a specific move? My Venusaur can take on the Champion, but not shove a boulder around or smash an already-cracked rock? I disagree.

Then again, this is trying to apply logic to a game, which is a very hit-and-miss situation as to whether it can be expected to actually apply to a given subject.
 
I find silly that a Pidgeot or a Pidgey or even Articuno needs to know the move fly before they can take you anywhere. It should be natural, same with the surfing Pokemon like someone else mentioned. I know it's a game but still a bit ridiculous
 
Flash should have been replaced with Flamethrower/Volt Tackle/Explosion.
 
I think they should remove HM. They should replace it with gadgets the hero can use to reach new areas. Much cooler and no more frustration
 
GAMEBOY said:
I think they should remove HM. They should replace it with gadgets the hero can use to reach new areas. Much cooler and no more frustration
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that'd ruin the whole "use your pokemon" thing.

brick break should be a HM. so should Tail Glow.
 
Surf should count as Waterfall and Whirlpool and not so as we need two moves just to move around Water. Brick Break/Slash variants should replace Rock Smash and cut. Rock Climb, Fly and Defog can all stay. No more Flash please. Dig can stay too.

Either that or the hero/heroine can obtain gadgets and devices to help them like Surfboards/Penknifes
 
I'm not one to use HM slaves, I usually teach them to my team. However, even though I didn't use a slave in HG, I was sorely disappointed with the move Whirlpool. It annoyed the crap out of me with a miniscule power of 15 :sweat: . It makes me wonder why they can't come up with more powerful moves like Surf, Waterfall, and Fly that can also be useful HM's.
 
I like that "pokemon naturally using HMs" idea, but still with HMs, so Hariyama can smash rocks and Ampharos will light up caves, while HMs are still around to teach Aggron Surf.

Also, after a certain point, maybe after the 8th badge, all those weak HMs will be "upgraded" to become stronger moves. Along with rock smash to brick break, we can also go from Whirlpool to Water Pulse and Flash (if that stays and HM anymore) to flash cannon
 
OR... we could have the idea that seems best to me...

When you get the HM, it automatically becomes available to memebers of your team as an ability, not wasting a moveset. All pokemon in your party who can learn the HM can have it as an ability, without you having to teach them. This is automatic, and unlimited in abilities a certain pokemon can learn. A certain pokemon can have ALL HMs as abilities.

Obviously, if you wanted to teach some moves, like surf or waterfall, you could...
 
Yeah HM do seem to be loseing there effectivenes as the games go on (Allthough Swords Dance follwed by waterfall can be a vicous move in double battle)

An example could be the move flash Originaly it was HM 05 now its been relegated to a TM (TM 70) to be more precise
 
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